Have we gotten to used to winning?

[ATippett56]

The truth is probably somewhere in-between, but obviously I'm hoping that it's much closer to the glass-half-full scenario.

The truth is, with regard to the rookies, we don't know at this point in time.

 

[supafly]

Whining? Of course we've all gotten used to whining.

 

[RayClay]

Whining? Of course we've all gotten used to whining.

:agree::blahblah::blahblah:

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

I know I have.....

 

[Brewskies]

Whining? Of course we've all gotten used to whining.

It's natural with the starts we have had, 2 wins but close calls against the weak.

Talk to me after the NO game.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

The title of the thread says it all.

That we are too used to people not knowing the difference between "to", "too", and "two"??

 

[Oswlek]

Yes, we are spoiled. We have won or tied for the division every year since 2001. So, it is difficult for folks to be satisfied.

Folks need to focus of what we need to be a Super Bowl contender as be come into the playoff run and the playoffs. Clearly developing some kids will help. But, we are a developing team.

Injuries are especially bothersome, not because these injuries will hurt our chances, but because we fear that we lose yet another Super Bowl or Super Bowl opportunity because of injuries to top players.

And, yes, it is embarrassing to think of celebrating 2-0 when we almost lost both games against to of the very worst teams in the NFL.

We should celebrate that the NFL chooses to keep us in the NFCE with three very weak teams.

You preach patience and understanding, but then offer a quintessential example of being spoiled with the "embarrassing to think of celebrating 2-0" comment. Color me confused.

 

[Oswlek]

Good post. I just popped in because i still don't get the idea. Forgive me, but unless you only became a fan in 2001, you sure know how hard it is to win in this league and treasure every season because we're always competitive. We just had two hard fought wins under the worst circumstances, which will always mean more to me than some 30 point blowout. Ugly wins are money in the bank to offset some bad luck another time.

And this window stuff is just pure BS, because it so often doesn't work and the price is often mediocrity for a long time. If you watch the game for a while you realize every season can come down to a few bounces, so it's the teams that are always in contention that are champions, not always in their best talent seasons either. Look at us in 2001, or Pitt with a horrible performance that was somehow good enough to win because they were competitive for a long period of time.

Of all the major sports, I think football is the least predictable because each game is more important and there are always injuries. A couple of freak plays early could turn a close win to a blow out loss. You can't win if you don't buy a ticket and we've been in the playoffs, or missed by a hair every year since Brady's first season. Strange year so far, but injuries, player losses early sometimes lead to gelling late.

It must suck to be rooting for that big name draft pick because you know your team is going nowhere and that's all you've got. Not on this team.

Excellent post. Indy is another example. The 2006 group was mediocre, as far as the Manning era goes. 2005, 2009, 2007 were inarguably better and 2003/2004 would give them a run for their money as well.

 

[mgteich]

There is a spectrum between complaining after every game and celebrating every win, no matter how poorly we played.

The patriots (and Houston) are 2-0 teams and have a long way to go to be competitive. We should obscure that.

We have discussed at length those things that need to happen for us to back on the track to the Super Bowl. We will continue to discuss such things as the continue development of the defense. IMHO, it does as little good to praise our top five or higher defense because of its stats so far as to demean them as being the same defense as last year, a very poor defense still to be tested. We've added only Kelly and the kids. The answer must lie in between the two views.

So, for me, I try to step back, analyze, and see the good, the bad and the ugly. Obviously, at the end of the day, I try to project the positive, what we need to do to make the playoffs, and have a team good enough to expect to do well in the offseason, although clearly, there are many factors comes the offseason. The Super Bowl isn't simply awarded to the strongest Power Rating among the playoff teams. We are building a team for the playoffs.

And yes, I do seem to focus on the risks taken by the Front Office with regard to depth. It is not OK to me for us to have the best starting team, with little depth. What happens is the inevitable; there are injuries which we then blame for the losses. And then we say, that we wish that we had as few injuries as Team A. I think a better approach is to understand the risks being taken, before the season starts and as the season continues.

And yes, my pet peeves are the choices made not to keep a veteran (usually inactive) WR in place of a Practice Squad quality backup LB/Ster. And even more so, the situation at tight end is really incomprehensible.

If I whine, and we all do, it is about players like the invisible Bequette. But, surely Belichick must have seen something that we all don't.

You preach patience and understanding, but then offer a quintessential example of being spoiled with the "embarrassing to think of celebrating 2-0" comment. Color me confused.

 

[RayClay]

Excellent post. Indy is another example. The 2006 group was mediocre, as far as the Manning era goes. 2005, 2009, 2007 were inarguably better and 2003/2004 would give them a run for their money as well.

Winning tough games is much better preparation for the playoffs than winning by big scores. Obviously you'd like to win comfortably, but managing to win injured or on an off day is a confidence builder.

Peyton struggled and was better for it in 06.

 

[Oswlek]

There is a spectrum between complaining after every game and celebrating every win, no matter how poorly we played.

The patriots (and Houston) are 2-0 teams and have a long way to go to be competitive. We should obscure that.

We have discussed at length those things that need to happen for us to back on the track to the Super Bowl. We will continue to discuss such things as the continue development of the defense. IMHO, it does as little good to praise our top five or higher defense because of its stats so far as to demean them as being the same defense as last year, a very poor defense still to be tested. We've added only Kelly and the kids. The answer must lie in between the two views.

So, for me, I try to step back, analyze, and see the good, the bad and the ugly. Obviously, at the end of the day, I try to project the positive, what we need to do to make the playoffs, and have a team good enough to expect to do well in the offseason, although clearly, there are many factors comes the offseason. The Super Bowl isn't simply awarded to the strongest Power Rating among the playoff teams. We are building a team for the playoffs.

And yes, I do seem to focus on the risks taken by the Front Office with regard to depth. It is not OK to me for us to have the best starting team, with little depth. What happens is the inevitable; there are injuries which we then blame for the losses. And then we say, that we wish that we had as few injuries as Team A. I think a better approach is to understand the risks being taken, before the season starts and as the season continues.

And yes, my pet peeves are the choices made not to keep a veteran (usually inactive) WR in place of a Practice Squad quality backup LB/Ster. And even more so, the situation at tight end is really incomprehensible.

If I whine, and we all do, it is about players like the invisible Bequette. But, surely Belichick must have seen something that we all don't.

Thus far, the lack of a backup WR hasn't impacted the team's record, and there are plenty of reasons to be skeptical that Thursday's game is how the entire season will play out.

I also have no idea how Bequette earned a spot on this team, but the roster needs a 4th DE a lot more than it needs a 7th WR. Particularly when that 7th WR is a non-developmental player. As I've said in the past, had a vet stepped up and earned at least the 3rd WR spot, then he would be worth keeping around. Otherwise, it is a waste of resources.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that a 7th WR is less valuable that a 4th or even 5th DE.

I would rather have a 7th WR instead of the inactive 3rd LB/Ster. I believe that Fletcher and Chirs White are sufficient in this role, especially since Collins is also playing lots of teams. It is beauharnais that I think should be on the Practice Squad, or not (but not on the 53).

I would have thought that there were better options than Bequette for the #4 DE, but Belichick made his choice. I don't think that there would have been any issues in getting him to the Practice Squad..


It is Belichick's strategy to wait for an injury and then go outs and sign a street free agent. Then, of course, the street free agent has not practiced and is not ready for weeks. This is our policy at WR and and at TE. Personally, I would like to have the backups on the roster, so that they can actually be ready when needed. When Mulligan (or whoever) is ready to be a backup TE, the need will be gone. We will then cut him, and then attempt to bring him back, when it will agains take 3 weeks until he's ready.

Thus far, the lack of a backup WR hasn't impacted the team's record, and there are plenty of reasons to be skeptical that Thursday's game is how the entire season will play out.

I also have no idea how Bequette earned a spot on this team, but the roster needs a 4th DE a lot more than it needs a 7th WR. Particularly when that 7th WR is a non-developmental player. As I've said in the past, had a vet stepped up and earned at least the 3rd WR spot, then he would be worth keeping around. Otherwise, it is a waste of resources.

 

[Oswlek]

I agree that a 7th WR is less valuable that a 4th or even 5th DE.

I would rather have a 7th WR instead of the inactive 3rd LB/Ster. I believe that Fletcher and Chirs White are sufficient in this role, especially since Collins is also playing lots of teams. It is beauharnais that I think should be on the Practice Squad, or not (but not on the 53).

I would have thought that there were better options than Bequette for the #4 DE, but Belichick made his choice. I don't think that there would have been any issues in getting him to the Practice Squad..

It is Belichick's strategy to wait for an injury and then go outs and sign a street free agent. Then, of course, the street free agent has not practiced and is not ready for weeks. This is our policy at WR and and at TE. Personally, I would like to have the backups on the roster, so that they can actually be ready when needed. When Mulligan (or whoever) is ready to be a backup TE, the need will be gone. We will then cut him, and then attempt to bring him back, when it will agains take 3 weeks until he's ready.

You only have 53 spots. I'd love to have an extra WR, DB, TE et all on the team, practicing and exempt from roster limits, but that isn't possible.

You feel that they have one too many ILBs, fine. But, again, a vet 7th WR who isn't good enough to beat out three rookies is a lousy use of resources, you'd be patching somewhere else instead. And I don't see why you can give Bill grief about Mulligan when it is WR that you want to fill. You only have one extra spot, after all.

FWIW, this is a lousy characterization:

It is Belichick's strategy to wait for an injury and then go outs and sign a street free agent.

That isn't Bill's strategy, that is what every NFL team does. You keep the ones you like best and, in the even of injuries or general ineffectiveness, you bring a few free agents in. The fact that NE didn't keep a vet WR doesn't illustrate anything other than the rookies were the best options.

 

[Deus Irae]

I remember a day when if we were 2-0 and both games wins in the division with the potential emergence of so many young players people would be ecstatic.

I remember a day when people were thrilled to be able to play Pong, were orgasmic about having a computer with 512k of RAM, and they thought having a cell phone half the size of their car was quite possibly the greatest thing in the history of mankind.

Times change and people adapt to new circumstances. In N.E., the circumstances are that the team has the G.O.A.T. lined up under center, The greatest coach of his era walking the sidelines, and no Lombardi trophy since 2004, while the Steelers have won it twice since then. Not surprisingly, people find that to be a problem.

Those people who think that's spoiled are free to go cheer for the Jaguars, where there's no fear of heightened expectations in the near future.

 

[supafly]

I remember a day when people were thrilled to be able to play Pong, were orgasmic about having a computer with 512k of RAM, and they thought having a cell phone half the size of their car was quite possibly the greatest thing in the history of mankind.

Times change and people adapt to new circumstances. In N.E., the circumstances are that the team has the G.O.A.T. lined up under center, The greatest coach of his era walking the sidelines, and no Lombardi trophy since 2004, while the Steelers have won it twice since then. Not surprisingly, people find that to be a problem.

Those people who think that's spoiled are free to go cheer for the Jaguars, where there's no fear of heightened expectations in the near future.

Once again, no one needs to be an over the top "homer," but they also don't need to be an over the top "chicken little" either. You are a poster who exemplifies a respectable balance between the two, and looks at things from a realistic approach; and that is just another reason why I appreciate your thoughts more than most.

I definitely have heightened expectations myself due to the specifics that you said in the above post. That said, I also don't care to hear so many freaking out after just two lousy games where we were lucky enough to win both.

Obviously there are some very valid concerns, but we've also seen a lot of these concerns improved upon and addressed over the years as the season progresses. Hopefully that will be the case this year too. Either way I do expect a competitive season which is always the goal. That of course includes a deep postseason run these days.

 

[Deus Irae]

Once again, no one needs to be an over the top "homer," but they also don't need to be an over the top "chicken little" either. You are a poster who exemplifies a respectable balance between the two, and looks at things from a realistic approach; and that is just another reason why I appreciate your thoughts more than most.

I definitely have heightened expectations myself due to the specifics that you said in the above post. That said, I also don't care to hear so many freaking out after just two lousy games where we were lucky enough to win both.

Obviously there are some very valid concerns, but we've also seen a lot of these concerns improved upon and addressed over the years as the season progresses. Hopefully that will be the case this year too. Either way I do expect a competitive season which is always the goal. That of course includes a deep postseason run these days.

I agree with everything you've posted*. I'm simply tired of hearing about it from the other side and I don't think either side is in a position to be complaining about the whining/gloating being done by their spectrum opposites.

(after just one game)Amendola proved BB right!
(after a couple of preseason games)Drafting the kids was definitely the way to go!
Welker's done because he muffed a punt in bad weather and had a mediocre game the next week!

And so on....


This site has become way out of balance with the extremes really pulling at the edges, and rational discussion here is seemingly going the way of the dinosaurs.

*Well, except the stuff specifically about me, which I appreciate you writing regardless of right or wrong.

 

[ivanvamp]

I remember a day when people were thrilled to be able to play Pong, were orgasmic about having a computer with 512k of RAM, and they thought having a cell phone half the size of their car was quite possibly the greatest thing in the history of mankind.

Times change and people adapt to new circumstances. In N.E., the circumstances are that the team has the G.O.A.T. lined up under center, The greatest coach of his era walking the sidelines, and no Lombardi trophy since 2004, while the Steelers have won it twice since then. Not surprisingly, people find that to be a problem.

Those people who think that's spoiled are free to go cheer for the Jaguars, where there's no fear of heightened expectations in the near future.

I think that there are two things that are true here. First, we are a bit spoiled as a fan base. I mean, this team has had the longest period of sustained excellence since the 80's-90's 49ers, and is still in the midst of one of the greatest runs in the history of the sport. Not only are we used to the Patriots winning, we are used to them pummeling people week after week. So close victories feel like losses, and losses feel like catastrophes. So we've looked like a "normal" team the past couple of weeks. OMG.....the sky is falling!!!

But second, Deus is right - one of the reasons we now expect so much is because of all the winning, and the key players in place for this team. I don't expect a Belichick/Brady team to suck. I expect them to play really well, week-in and week-out. I know we can't win them all, but I expect to win the vast majority of the time. It's not crazy to expect this team to be among the league's elite with Brady and Belichick around.

My take is this: I've been saying for years on this board that I long for the day when the Pats can win any type of game - a 42-35 shootout, or a 13-10 grinder. An aerial assault, a ground-and-pounder, or a defensive struggle. Whatever. Well, one key piece that's been missing is a shut-down defense that can bury an opponent if necessary. I'm not saying they have that right now. They have played very well on defense so far, but let's face it - the competition has been pretty sub-standard. Nonetheless, they have shown already that they can win when the offense is not playing well - something they haven't really been able to do for several years.

I think the kids at WR and TE will improve, and that by the 2nd half of the year they'll be performing at a much higher level than now. Add to that the return of Gronk, Vereen, and Amendola, and I think the offense will be back to its 30ppg level in the 2nd half of the year.

In the meanwhile, they're going to have to learn how to win with defense and ball control. And it's going to make for some ugly games. But what that will do long-term for this team will be incredibly valuable. And I think that, while they may win "only" 10-11 games this year, they'll be in much better shape for the playoff run than they have in years past, at least as far as the total makeup and character of the team is concerned.

So while it's frustrating to watch right now, I think in the end, this team will be better off having gone through this process. Consider me an optimist.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Meanwhile, we BARELY beat two very bad teams with rookie QBs

I wouldn't take it to the bank that those are very bad teams. Time will tell.

 

[Brady6]

I remember a day when if we were 2-0 and both games wins in the division with the potential emergence of so many young players people would be ecstatic.

No one is mentioning the weather and the fact the Jets are a defensive orientated team hat always play games like this.

Lets look at the positive which no one has done. 2-0 in the division with a long break and another winnable game coming up. The emergence of Dobson he can get open, Edelman, Amendola, Vereen, a better defense. Gronk coming back soon.

Yes we may loose some games from injury. Every team does, this is the NFL.

Remember when the Giants won the second time against us. That team was every bit of average the first half of the year.


The question is can we get healthy by the half way point to make a run.




Man the whininng is annoying. Anyone here Tanguay go off after the Jets game and Zolak trying to say what I just said but Tanguay being so loud he couldn't speak? That seems to be the attitude of most around New England. A lot fo arm chair quaterbacks waiting for the inevitable fall.

Everyone on this board invests their time, energy and money into the Patriots, to expect them to win is reasonable. Are we fortunate that we don’t suffer through season like the Jaguars? Absolutely but we all show are appreciation for this franchise, take a look around other teams message-boards in the NFL there is not dedication like you see in this site to other teams. We support are team like no other fan base, so if we question a decision or a move it shouldn’t fall under the misconception that we’re spoiled or used to a certain way, it should reflect the investment we all have in the Patriots that we want to see it do well, and if we feel something may be detrimental to that process we are educated enough to question it and discuss it.

Being used to winning is different than focusing on what we need to do to win, I think we discuss many things on this site that indicate that we aren’t used to winning but we’re just committed to the team and focused on identifying the good and the bad that impacts the teams win loss record.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, that. I have no point to make. Jesus loves you.

Oh, you're a Tebow fan