Ras-I Dowling released

[Kontradiction]

Is there a particular reason you throw blatantly stupid comments out there looking for arguments? McCourty was a fine Cornerback. The fact is, he's a better Safety.

In advance, spare me your usual I'm right rhetoric.

In zone, he was decent. In press, he was a liability. Again, another product from the zone heavy system at Rutgers.

 

[mgteich]

OK. We draft a player for one position and he plays at a pro-bowl level at another position, and you consider it a failure. We needs lots more failure like McCourty in our defensive backfield. I recall moving the best outisde linebacker in the NCAA to inside linebacker. Was Bruschi also a failed pick?

Do you think other teams do better?

DRAFT WINS - McCourty, Dennard
DRAFT MISSES - Dowling, Wilson
INCOMPLETE - Ryan, Harmon
Ebner was a win as a special teamer, given where he was drafted.

Talib wasn't a draft pick
McCourty didn't make it as a CB and was moved to safety.

Even counting since 2010, it's only Dennard seeming to work out at the position drafted, to date. Given how high Dowling and Wilson were taken, that's a pretty lousy return.

 

[Coach42]

still think Ras I makes this team.



(I need help)

 

[TyronePoole]

So, "in advance, concede my argument" is your post?


Sad....


Sorry to burst your bubble, but McCourty wasn't cutting it, which is why he was moved to safety, since he played better when he could see the play in front of him.

This narrative is just blatantly wrong. Wow.

 

[Oswlek]

Talib wasn't a draft pick
McCourty didn't make it as a CB and was moved to safety.

Even counting since 2010, it's only Dennard seeming to work out at the position drafted, to date. Given how high Dowling and Wilson were taken, that's a pretty lousy return.

A draft pick was used to acquire Talib. That's why I counted him.

Even if you believe McCourty is a failed CB (I don't), he is more than good enough at safety to consider solid return.

Dowling was very poor return. Dennard was great return. Ultimately, if you make a 2nd round selection and a 7th round selection and a get a starter out of it, it is acceptable regardless of which one succeeded.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK. We draft a player for one position and he plays at a pro-bowl level at another position, and you consider it a failure.

I don't consider it a failure. I consider McCourty a fine safety and a great asset to the team. He's one of two drafted players on Oswlek's list that have shown ability to play in the secondary. However, he was drafted as a corner, not a safety, so let's not pretend the team nailed it, either.

We needs lots more failure like McCourty in our defensive backfield. I recall moving the best outisde linebacker in the NCAA to inside linebacker. Was Bruschi also a failed pick?

No, they need a starting quality safety and another good CB.

 

[patsinthesnow]

OK. We draft a player for one position and he plays at a pro-bowl level at another position, and you consider it a failure. We needs lots more failure like McCourty in our defensive backfield. I recall moving the best outisde linebacker in the NCAA to inside linebacker. Was Bruschi also a failed pick?

Hell, McCourty is rated 92 overall in the new Madden, as the 3rd best FS and 5th best overall.

Getting an elite safety at pick 27 is a homerun.

 

[JackBauer]

I'm fine with being wrong about Ryan if he can prove it. But, from where I'm sitting at, he played in a VERY zone heavy scheme at Rutgers and his top end speed (or lack thereof) would seemingly make him a liability on the outside. He would do best lined up in the slot, and eased into action because he's going to be coming into a scheme that plays a good amount of press.

As of right now, outside of the top three, the Pats have a rookie that's playing in a completely different system, a system that's heralded as one of the more difficult systems in the NFL to pick up, and a JAG.

I guess my point is how many teams in the NFL have CB4/CB5 who can step in without a marked drop in quality of play?

You may be right about Ryan; I have no idea. I'm just saying that's still a bit of an enigma at this point. Hopefully we won't have to find out, or if we do an (fingers crossed) improved pass rush can make Arrington less of a liability on the outside.

 

[ausbacker]

So, "in advance, concede my argument" is your post?


Sad....


Sorry to burst your bubble, but McCourty wasn't cutting it, which is why he was moved to safety, since he played better when he could see the play in front of him.

McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB. He performed at Corner and he's performed at Safety. You can argue against that all you like. The reality suggests otherwise. If the Patriots run into CB trouble, surprise surprise McCourty is back at Corner.

If a player can excel in several positions and is needed at one more than the other, you move the player to that position. That says more about BB's drafting of Safeties than it does of McCourty.

In zone he decent. In press he was a liability. Again, another product from the zone heavy system at Rutgers.

I'm not disagreeing with your statement Kontra. I took exception to it being put forward to McCourty wasn't "cutting it" at Corner. That's simply not true.

 

[mgteich]

And if they had, what team would cut such a player?

What you see is what will start the season.

OK, I guess my point is how many teams in the NFL have CB4/CB5 who can step in without a marked drop in quality of play?

 

[PatriotsInGA]

Sad. Just sad.

He had the size to be great, if not at least decent. But he couldn't stop getting injured. And yes I believe he is at fault for the injuries. It's due to a lack of conditioning/stretching/etc. The little things.

 

[JackBauer]

Sad. Just sad.

He had the size to be great, if not at least decent. But he couldn't stop getting injured. And yes I believe he is at fault for the injuries. It's due to a lack of conditioning/stretching/etc. The little things.

Based on what we know about the guy, I'd be shocked if this was the case.

Some athletes are just cursed in spite of their efforts.

 

[Coach42]

I guess my point is how many teams in the NFL have CB4/CB5 who can step in without a marked drop in quality of play?

You may be right about Ryan; I have no idea. I'm just saying that's still a bit of an enigma at this point. Hopefully we won't have to find out, or if we do an (fingers crossed) improved pass rush can make Arrington less of a liability on the outside.

1 or 2 at most.

 

[Deus Irae]

A draft pick was used to acquire Talib. That's why I counted him.

C'mon, now.... You were trying to shade the point. That's why you counted him.

Even if you believe McCourty is a failed CB (I don't), he is more than good enough at safety to consider solid return.

Dowling was very poor return. Dennard was great return. Ultimately, if you make a 2nd round selection and a 7th round selection and a get a starter out of it, it is acceptable regardless of which one succeeded.

1st
2nd
2nd
3rd
7th

They got two starters out of those picks, one of whom had to be switched out to come into his own. I grant, though, that I shouldn't have used the word 'lousy' in my post, because that's too harsh. I should have used something like 'mediocre' or 'average' or something like that, instead.

 

[mgteich]

CORNER

Many teams would rate Arrington as a solid backup corner, in addition to being a top nickel back.

Maybe teams carry better #4 CB's than rookie Ryan; perhaps they don't. Sure, we like to have a "good" corner as our #4 corner. The reality is that we have much more serious depth issues at DT and DE.

SAFETY
We've been looking since we cut Meriweather and Sanders. We're still looking.

I don't consider it a failure. I consider McCourty a fine safety and a great asset to the team. He's one of two drafted players on Oswlek's list that have shown ability to play in the secondary. However, he was drafted as a corner, not a safety, so let's not pretend the team nailed it, either.



No, they need a starting quality safety and another good CB.

 

[Kontradiction]

I guess my point is how many teams in the NFL have CB4/CB5 who can step in without a marked drop in quality of play?

You may be right about Ryan; I have no idea. I'm just saying that's still a bit of an enigma at this point. Hopefully we won't have to find out, or if we do an (fingers crossed) improved pass rush can make Arrington less of a liability on the outside.

Admittedly, not many. But when you look at the Super Bowl-winning teams of the last few years, you can see one common thread: quality depth at CB in a pass league. The Ravens lost Webb last year, Cary Williams (punk that he is) filled in good enough. The Giants lost Terrell Thomas before the beginning of the 2011 season, but had quality depth in the secondary as well. The Packers suffered numerous injuries in the secondary in 2010 and because of the quality of play of Williams and Shields, their pass defense didn't take that far of a step back either. In a passing league in which the Patriots have to play the likes of Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and Joe Flacco (to name a few), we have a rookie entering a system that's almost the total opposite of the one he came from and a JAG as depth. You'll excuse me if I want to see another CB added to the final roster.

 

[upstater1]

When Tavon Wilson gets cut we can debate the two picks. Ras-I was picked higher but Tavon had a 7th round grade.

Dowling was taken in a strong draft, Wilson in a weak draft. I never heard of Wilson, but when I looked at the 3-5 rounds, I kinda of went, "Wow, there was nothing there!!!"

If hindsight is 20/20, I bet Belichick would have preferred to go into free agency for Rodgers-Cromartie, or traded for Talib, etc., rather than spend all these picks on DBs. He hit on McCourty and Dennard was a fluke, but so much energy expended there. He'd be better off spending the money, in the end.

 

[Deus Irae]

McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB. He performed at Corner and he's performed at Safety. You can argue against that all you like. The reality suggests otherwise. If the Patriots run into CB trouble, surprise surprise McCourty is back at Corner.

McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB as a rookie. He got exposed after that, became a liability at the position, and got moved to a position that protected against his weakness while filling a team need. You can argue against that all you like. The reality is otherwise. Perhaps he'd be better at the CB position today, and would be back to a high level there, but we don't know that.

 

[ausbacker]

McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB as a rookie. He got exposed after that, became a liability at the position, and got moved to a position that protected against his weakness while filling a team need. You can argue against that all you like. The reality is otherwise. Perhaps he'd be better at the CB position today, and would be back to a high level there, but we don't know that.

Well Deus, nobody will ever fail to accuse you of being stubborn. Even when you're wrong, you still claim you're right.

Good for you.

 

[Brady6]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
Surprise, surprise: Patriots cut CB Ras-I Dowling.

It is my opinion that Ras-I Dowling is the worst pick of the Belichick era, look at the names that were taken after him that would have had value to use or to other teams, which would return compensation:

Ras-I Dowling, CB, Virginia
Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada
Jabaal Sheard, DL, Pittsburgh
Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA
Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina
Brooks Reed, DL, Arizona
Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame
Rahim Moore, FS, UCLA
Orlando Franklin, OL, Miami
Stefen Wisniewski, OL, Penn St.
Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
Greg Little, WR, North Carolina
Marcus Gilbert, OL, Florida
Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky
Justin Houston, LB, Georgia
DeMarco Murray, RB, Oklahoma
Jurrell Casey, DL, USC
K.J. Wright, LB, Mississippi Sy.
Sam Acho, OLB, Texas
Cecil Shorts, WR, Mount Union
Kendall Hunter, RB, Oklahoma St.
Richard Sherman, DB, Stanford
Pernell McPhee, DL, Mississippi St.

The players in bold were taken in the 2nd round and have all been major contributors for their respective teams, there are also some notable names from later rounds listed. Now obviously it is easy for me to sit at my desk and pass judgment in hindsight and at this point it doesn’t much matter, we’ve moved on as team, but it would have been nice to see something good come of that pick, I remember myself and most were very excited to hold the first pick of the second round, it is a shame this is how it played out.