Ras-I Dowling released

[Oswlek]

C'mon, now.... You were trying to shade the point. That's why you counted him.

1st
2nd
2nd
3rd
7th

They got two starters out of those picks, one of whom had to be switched out to come into his own. I grant, though, that I shouldn't have used the word 'lousy' in my post, because that's too harsh. I should have used something like 'mediocre' or 'average' or something like that, instead.

Not at all. They used a draft pick to acquire a player. Simple as that.

As for your draft outline, only one of those players is a bonafide failure and one is so new that it is disingenuous to add him to the tally. So, basically they got two starters and two excellent special teamers, one of which still has an outside shot of actually becoming a decent player, out of five draft picks (1, 2, 2, 6, 7). That is more than acceptable.

 

[Deus Irae]

CORNER

Many teams would rate Arrington as a solid backup corner, in addition to being a top nickel back.

Maybe teams carry better #4 CB's than rookie Ryan; perhaps they don't. Sure, we like to have a "good" corner as our #4 corner. The reality is that we have much more serious depth issues at DT and DE.

This team's currently 3 deep at corner, and one of those 3 could potentially miss games due to off-the-field issues.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well Deus, nobody will ever fail to accuse you of being stubborn. Even when you're wrong, you still claim you're right.

Good for you.

...I grant, though, that I shouldn't have used the word 'lousy' in my post, because that's too harsh. I should have used something like 'mediocre' or 'average' or something like that, instead.

Irony so thick a chainsaw isn't strong enough to cut through it. You must be missing Andy again.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not disagreeing with your statement Kontra. I took exception to it being put forward to McCourty wasn't "cutting it" at Corner. That's simply not true.

He had his struggles. In 2010, the team featured a very zone heavy scheme. He could come in a flourish in that because that's what he was accustomed to. But zone heavy schemes are relatively easy for better QB's to pick apart. Hell, if you combine one with a non-existant pass rush, a quarterback like Sanchez can roll out, re-direct his WR, and fire downfield. In 2011, the team started featuring more press looks and he struggled, because McCourty is the type of player that prefers to play with his head toward the play. He struggled again at the beginning of 2012 (though not as much as he did in 2011), and REALLY came on when he was moved to FS and was able to keep his head turned toward the play while using his range to make plays on the ball. That's his natural position because it's obvious that he's uncomfortable in trail then having to turn his head around to look for the ball.

 

[upstater1]

I know Darius Butler was toast in New England after they had him pegged to start after his rookie year, but the Colts are putting a lot of stock in him. Wonder if he'll resurrect his career there.

The NFL is weird like that sometimes.

 

[JackBauer]

Admittedly, not many. But when you look at the Super Bowl-winning teams of the last few years, you can see one common thread: quality depth at CB in a pass league. The Ravens lost Webb last year, Cary Williams (punk that he is) filled in good enough. The Giants lost Terrell Thomas before the beginning of the 2011 season, but had quality depth in the secondary as well. The Packers suffered numerous injuries in the secondary in 2010 and because of the quality of play of Williams and Shields, their pass defense didn't take that far of a step back either. In a passing league in which the Patriots have to play the likes of Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and Joe Flacco (to name a few), we have a rookie entering a system that's almost the total opposite of the one he came from and a JAG as depth. You'll excuse me if I want to see another CB added to the final roster.

I wouldn't mind replacing Cole, but you'd need to find someone who a.) is a better CB than Cole (anyone) and b.) can be an excellent Special Teams player. Probably not many of those guys out there right now. It also seems like those three teams are distinguished by having superior pass rushes, which as we all know can benefit secondary play enormously. That's what I'm praying for this season.

 

[Coach42]

I think the artists formerly known as SS are things of the past and in the future teams are going to be essentially playing 4 corners rather than 2 cbs and 2 safetys.

 

[Kontradiction]

I wouldn't mind replacing Cole, but you'd need to find someone who a.) is a better CB than Cole (anyone) and b.) can be an excellent Special Teams player.

Probably not many of those guys out there right now.

I'd like the team to work out Sheldon Brown. It's pretty strange how he's still out there right now. But, if healthy, he would seem to be an upgrade to Cole.

 

[PatriotReign]

I don't consider it a failure. I consider McCourty a fine safety and a great asset to the team. He's one of two drafted players on Oswlek's list that have shown ability to play in the secondary. However, he was drafted as a corner, not a safety, so let's not pretend the team nailed it, either.



No, they need a starting quality safety and another good CB.

Jason Verrett next year would be a great pick if he falls or the Pats trade up.

 

[JackBauer]

I'd like the team to work out Sheldon Brown. It's pretty strange how he's still out there right now. But, if healthy, he would seem to be an upgrade to Cole.

Happily co-signed.

 

[PatriotReign]

I know Darius Butler was toast in New England after they had him pegged to start after his rookie year, but the Colts are putting a lot of stock in him. Wonder if he'll resurrect his career there.

The NFL is weird like that sometimes.

Tim Jennings was a bust in Indy but has evolved into a beast with Chicago.

 

[ausbacker]

He had his struggles. In 2010, the team featured a very zone heavy scheme. He could come in a flourish in that because that's what he was accustomed to. But zone heavy schemes are relatively easy for better QB's to pick apart. Hell, if you combine one with a non-existant pass rush, a quarterback like Sanchez can roll out, re-direct his WR, and fire downfield. In 2011, the team started featuring more press looks and he struggled, because McCourty is the type of player that prefers to play with his head toward the play. He struggled again at the beginning of 2012 (though not as much as he did in 2011), and REALLY came on when he was moved to FS and was able to keep his head turned toward the play while using his range to make plays on the ball. That's his natural position because it's obvious that he's uncomfortable in trail then having to turn his head around to look for the ball.

I put forward quite early in his career that I thought McCourty would be better suited to Safety. Much of what you have written is true and I am in agreement with that position.

It's asinine to say that McCourty wasn't cutting it at Corner. That's my only contention.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

thank god....was and is useless...waste of a roster spot

 

[Coach42]

It is my opinion that Ras-I Dowling is the worst pick of the Belichick era, look at the names that were taken after him that would have had value to use or to other teams, which would return compensation:

Ras-I Dowling, CB, Virginia
Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada
Jabaal Sheard, DL, Pittsburgh
Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA
Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina
Brooks Reed, DL, Arizona
Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame
Rahim Moore, FS, UCLA
Orlando Franklin, OL, Miami
Stefen Wisniewski, OL, Penn St.
Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
Greg Little, WR, North Carolina
Marcus Gilbert, OL, Florida
Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky
Justin Houston, LB, Georgia
DeMarco Murray, RB, Oklahoma
Jurrell Casey, DL, USC
K.J. Wright, LB, Mississippi Sy.
Sam Acho, OLB, Texas
Cecil Shorts, WR, Mount Union
Kendall Hunter, RB, Oklahoma St.
Richard Sherman, DB, Stanford
Pernell McPhee, DL, Mississippi St.

The players in bold were taken in the 2nd round and have all been major contributors for their respective teams, there are also some notable names from later rounds listed. Now obviously it is easy for me to sit at my desk and pass judgment in hindsight and at this point it doesn’t much matter, we’ve moved on as team, but it would have been nice to see something good come of that pick, I remember myself and most were very excited to hold the first pick of the second round, it is a shame this is how it played out.

By all accounts Ras I had the talent to be on that list. He couldn't stay healthy he did not lack talent. Chad Jackson is a far bigger bust.

 

[Brady6]

McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB as a rookie. He got exposed after that, became a liability at the position, and got moved to a position that protected against his weakness while filling a team need. You can argue against that all you like. The reality is otherwise. Perhaps he'd be better at the CB position today, and would be back to a high level there, but we don't know that.

This is just my opinion, but I feel McCourty’s success as a rookie came in more of a zone scheme which allowed him to play the ball, we made the switch to more man to man in his second season forcing him to change his approach to player the receiver, I saw that as a disadvantage for his skillset. In the current scheme I think playing the centerfield, playmaking safety role allows him to use his instincts and closing speed to make plays on the ball.

I understand the shift in philosophy, we wanted to bring more pressure with the front 7, and in order to do that you have to play 1on1 in coverage, that said, the change did affect Pat Chung as well in my opinion, Chung was an enforcer type safety who liked to lurk and lay the wood, the same could be said to some degree, Arrington plays best in a zone scheme as well which why he works better in the slot. Fortunately we really only lost Chung in this shift, and we were able to find roles for McCourty at safety, and Arrington at the star CB position that optimize their skillsets.

 

[JMC00]

I'd like the team to work out Sheldon Brown. It's pretty strange how he's still out there right now. But, if healthy, he would seem to be an upgrade to Cole.

Maybe he's doing the veteran move of staying in football shape but being in the league 11 years and 34 years old didn't want to go through training camp and will sign with a team after the 4th preseason game.

Maybe Brown is the reason why Dowling was ultimately cut. Brown has proved to be dependable, only missing one game in his entire career.

I seem to remember they signed Brian Waters on Sept 4, 8 days before the opener.

 

[Kontradiction]

Maybe he's doing the veteran move of staying in football shape but being in the league 11 years and 34 years old didn't want to go through training camp and will sign with a team after the 4th preseason game.

Maybe Brown is the reason why Dowling was ultimately cut. Brown has proved to be dependable only missing one game in his entire career.

I seem to remember they signed Brian Waters on Sept 4, 8 days before the opener.

One can hope...

 

[Oswlek]

I'd like the team to work out Sheldon Brown. It's pretty strange how he's still out there right now. But, if healthy, he would seem to be an upgrade to Cole.

Not as a STer, but you might get your wish after week 1, when Brown's salary isn't guaranteed.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

The All-IR team is going to miss one of their most prolific players.

 

[TyronePoole]

McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB as a rookie. He got exposed after that, became a liability at the position, and got moved to a position that protected against his weakness while filling a team need. You can argue against that all you like. The reality is otherwise. Perhaps he'd be better at the CB position today, and would be back to a high level there, but we don't know that.

jfc, it's like you only watched one or two highlights and then tuned into talk radio or something. He was never anything approaching a liability at the position nor was he "exposed." He was left on his own in a ridiculously awful backfield and performed well above average in his second and third year before switching to CB.

in 2011:

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?year=2011&pos=CB&season=all

8th in the league in Tackle Factor (TF .99)
15th in the league in Success Count (SC 37)
42 in Passes Defended (1 place above Aquib Talib that year, tied with guys like Cromartie, Finnegan)

Now you've already established yourself as a Joe Morgan-level luddite when it comes to stats (let alone advanced analytics) so don't bother with the "I know what the stats say, they don't tell the whole story" nonsense since we know that's not true...wait, I keep forgetting you put anyone who calls you on your terrible posting on ignore...carry on