$10 Million Wrongful death lawsuit filed against Patriots

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It seems like everyone is way off-topic here with the weight issue. In fact, I would wager to say that had this man been morbidly obese, it may actually build the plaintiff's case. It's like of like if you see someone that weights 3 pounds, you probably would not bring them up to your roof during a wind storm. Same thing here: the more enormous the man is, the more likely a reasonable person should know that a heated argument could cause health issues.

Of course, I am just playing devil's advocate here. The truth is that there is no legitimate case. Obviously the man was prone to have a heart attack in a stressful situation, whether that was pre-existing or not, and whether his weight was a major or minor factor.

While there is a need for tort reform, even the most liberal, plaintiff-favoring courts would not dare rule in favor of the plaintiff here. Common law has been in existence for hundreds of years, and the major factor here is how consequences can extend into reasonable society. You simply cannot use words or arguments as a weapon capable of causing damage, particularly death, unless it's under extraordinary circumstances. If you were to take that to its logical conclusions, almost every person who dies of a heart attack or a premature death would find liability. Someone made Mr X. upset, so he was flustered and got in a car accident. Mrs. Z. didn't like your insult, so she killed herself. Etc etc etc. These are frivolous lawsuits that have no business being filed. The heart is a physical organ that can be damaged by physical means, such as weapons or fists, and that is the way the law works.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bruinz - unless you are a medical professional who completed the last physical examination on Mr. Chartier, then you nor anyone knows what his medical state was at the time of the incident. Would that be fair to say? Or no?

It doesn't matter if I am a medical professional or not or if I was the one who completed his last physical exam. I can tell he was OBESE and that he did not live what is considered a healthy lifestyle (cigar smoking, beer drinking) despite being obese.

As someone else pointed out, smoking and drinking both have negative effects on people who are already obese and make them more susceptible to heart issues.

So, while I don't know for certain what Mr. Chartier's health condition was, it doesn't change the fact that he is the one responsible for his health. Not the Patriots. Not the NFL. Not the Security company.

Futhermore, the Chartier's (nor your own) ignorance of the NFL Ticket Policy both regarding going onto the field and what the "Responsible Parties" can and cannot be held accountable for does not preclude them from having to follow them.

 

[belichick010405]

It doesn't matter if I am a medical professional or not or if I was the one who completed his last physical exam. I can tell he was OBESE and that he did not live what is considered a healthy lifestyle (cigar smoking, beer drinking) despite being obese.

As someone else pointed out, smoking and drinking both have negative effects on people who are already obese and make them more susceptible to heart issues.

So, while I don't know for certain what Mr. Chartier's health condition was, it doesn't change the fact that he is the one responsible for his health. Not the Patriots. Not the NFL. Not the Security company.

Futhermore, the Chartier's (nor your own) ignorance of the NFL Ticket Policy both regarding going onto the field and what the "Responsible Parties" can and cannot be held accountable for does not preclude them from having to follow them.

Thank you for making my point. You don't know what Mr. Chartier's health condition was at the time of the incident and anything that you have seen regarding a picture with a cigar in his hand or a beer in his hand is nothing more than pure supposition.

 

[DaBruinz]

So you know what his medical condition was at the time of the incident? Let the supposition continue.

It's not supposition. Do yourself a favor and stop replying if you are going to continue being so ignorant. It was already pointed out to you that he was OBESE. Very obese. And I admitted to mistakenly calling him morbidly obese.

You've failed to put together a cogent argument as to why the Patriots, NFL, the Security Company, or the Security guard should be held accountable for another person's health.

I suggest you read this article to further help yourself understand about heart attacks. You'll have a better understanding of why the Patriots, NFL, Security Company and Security guard won't be held liable for this man's death.

Why Do Healthy People Have Heart Attacks

 

[belichick010405]

It seems like everyone is way off-topic here with the weight issue. In fact, I would wager to say that had this man been morbidly obese, it may actually build the plaintiff's case. It's like of like if you see someone that weights 3 pounds, you probably would not bring them up to your roof during a wind storm. Same thing here: the more enormous the man is, the more likely a reasonable person should know that a heated argument could cause health issues.

Of course, I am just playing devil's advocate here. The truth is that there is no legitimate case. Obviously the man was prone to have a heart attack in a stressful situation, whether that was pre-existing or not, and whether his weight was a major or minor factor.

While there is a need for tort reform, even the most liberal, plaintiff-favoring courts would not dare rule in favor of the plaintiff here. Common law has been in existence for hundreds of years, and the major factor here is how consequences can extend into reasonable society. You simply cannot use words or arguments as a weapon capable of causing damage, particularly death, unless it's under extraordinary circumstances. If you were to take that to its logical conclusions, almost every person who dies of a heart attack or a premature death would find liability. Someone made Mr X. upset, so he was flustered and got in a car accident. Mrs. Z. didn't like your insult, so she killed herself. Etc etc etc. These are frivolous lawsuits that have no business being filed. The heart is a physical organ that can be damaged by physical means, such as weapons or fists, and that is the way the law works.

Ice - the real issue with this case has little to nothing to do with health of Mr. Chartier.

What is at issue is the failure of the security guard to follow standard operating procedure of both the New England Patriots and their contractual obligation in providing security and since the New England Patriots ticket policy states that they are at risk of being removed from the premises, the security guard and their firm are potentially negligent from following procedure while also being involved in two separate arguments with a patron that, according to one witness, was over the top and initiated by the security guard.

The security guard and his firm failed to follow their own SOP, if in fact that the NFL officials failed to follow certain guidelines that would permit the child to be escorted onto the field with them.

That is on him and his employer.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thank you for making my point. You don't know what Mr. Chartier's health condition was at the time of the incident and anything that you have seen regarding a picture with a cigar in his hand or a beer in his hand is nothing more than pure supposition.

I didn't make your point. I blew it up in your face because it was and still is non-sensical. I can and DO know he was OBESE. That's fact you can't deny. That you are still trying is absolutely laughable.

 

[belichick010405]

It's not supposition. Do yourself a favor and stop replying if you are going to continue being so ignorant. It was already pointed out to you that he was OBESE. Very obese. And I admitted to mistakenly calling him morbidly obese.

You've failed to put together a cogent argument as to why the Patriots, NFL, the Security Company, or the Security guard should be held accountable for another person's health.

I suggest you read this article to further help yourself understand about heart attacks. You'll have a better understanding of why the Patriots, NFL, Security Company and Security guard won't be held liable for this man's death.

Why Do Healthy People Have Heart Attacks

Oh - it is supposition Bruinz. You have no idea what his medical condition was at the time of the incident. You are assuming what his medical condition was based on a couple of pictures.

 

[belichick010405]

I didn't make your point. I blew it up in your face because it was and still is non-sensical. I can and DO know he was OBESE. That's fact you can't deny. That you are still trying is absolutely laughable.

Ok Bruinz - prove how you know he was obese. This should be good.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ice - the real issue with this case has little to nothing to do with health of Mr. Chartier.

False. Mr. Chartier's health is an important part of this case. He was obese, clearly smoked cigars and drank beer as a past time. Furthermore I posted an article that showed that, even had he been deemed "healthy" weeks prior, plaque could have built up in his system and cause the heart attack at that time.

What is at issue is the failure of the security guard to follow standard operating procedure of both the New England Patriots and their contractual obligation in providing security and since the New England Patriots ticket policy states that they are at risk of being removed from the premises, the security guard and their firm are potentially negligent from following procedure while also being involved in two separate arguments with a patron that, according to one witness, was over the top and initiated by the security guard.

You've provided nothing to show that the security guard didn't follow SOP in confronting Mr. Chartier.

Furthermore, you've ignored the part of the ticket policy that doesn't allow the Patriots, NFL, Security Company or Mr. Sherman to be held liable for accidental death. And, considering that no one touched Mr. Chartier other than to perform CPR, the idea that they are to be held liable for an argument is BS.

The security guard and his firm failed to follow their own SOP, if in fact that the NFL officials failed to follow certain guidelines that would permit the child to be escorted onto the field with them.

That is on him and his employer.

Could you please provide a link to their SOP to PROVE that they didn't follow it? Oh wait. All you have is supposition and heresay.

The fact remains that Mr. Chartier's health can and will be called into question whether you like it or not.

Sorry, but you've failed miserably in attempting to say that an argument led to Mr. Chartier's death. And that is what has to be done. If you can't do that, the rest of it doesn't matter.

 

[belichick010405]

How do you know that Mr. Chartier was obese at the time of this incident?

Oh, one other thing, there is a big difference between accidental death and wrongful death.

 

[BigMike]

Kimberly Chartier of Chicopee sues New England Patriots, NFL, in wake of husband's fatal heart attack in 2010 at Foxborough | masslive.com

two pics of Mr Chartier.....

 

[patfanken]

I've actually read, (or skimmed) the entire thread and I'm surprised that this particular issue wasn't mention more stridently.

First of all it was a very sad event. I was 15 when I witnessed my fathers completely unexpected death from a heart attack at age 48 at home. He was watching Burke's Law on TV. Maybe we should have sued NBC. But I digress. I can't see how the team, NFL, or even the security guy himself can be held liable for the unfortunate events that day.

If being upset with the way his son was treated got him fired up enough to cause his death, what would have happened if at the end of the game the Pats had made or missed a FG to win or lose the game.

But here is why I think this suit is a last desperate attempt by the family to cash in on this death. It happened 3 years ago. When this sad death was raw and the grieving new and most painful, believe me, I'm sure the family investigated suing the Pats et al. That would be my initial reaction if it were my family.

However what I'm sure they found was lawyers telling the over and over again that they didn't have a case. Now maybe because the insurance money has run out, or they found a guy who decided the publicity would be worth the effort to try and extort all the parties into giving them a settlement instead of paying expensive lawyer fees.

Look at what he's done, he just sued a lot of deep pockets all of whom would rather this go away. So its reasonable to think there's a decent chance he can get a few hundred thousand from these deep pockets, not because they have a case, but because it would be cheaper to pay them off than defend it in court. Especially in the wake of the whole AH PR disaster. It happens all the time. Give me $100 or spend $150 defending my nuisance suit. This kind of legal extortion happens all the time, and we all end up paying for it down the line.

Its a shame this man had to die

Its a shame his son hat to witness it.

Its a shame the security guy was an *******

Its a shame the guy had a heart condition.

But none of it would seem to justify suing the Pats et al. However in a land where courts have given money to people who spilled hot coffee on THEMSELVES, who knows. But it really is a sad commentary on our legal tort system.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok Bruinz - prove how you know he was obese. This should be good.

Look at his pictures. That is proof enough. You claiming otherwise is laughable.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...XWYuvheK03VO4scBNaUbwLuA&ust=1377212031231614

Google Image Result for http://media.masslive.com/breakingnews/photo/9055533-large.jpg

Prove how the argument caused the heart attack.

 

[Nunchucks]

I think it is obviuos this guy was going to have a heart attack at some point in the near future. That he happened to have it at the patriots game is not a reason to sue the patriots. Absolutely ridiculous lawsuit.

People do not have heart attacks because of harsh words, they have heart attacks because their heart is faulked up...people defending this...I mean jesus think of the implications of what you are arguing.

 

[Demosthenes]

.

The security guard and his firm failed to follow their own SOP, if in fact that the NFL officials failed to follow certain guidelines that would permit the child to be escorted onto the field with them.

That is on him and his employer.

And once again, that is an issue to be taken up with the Customer Relations department.

That a security guard did not follow training or SOP is not grounds for a wrongful death judgment.

 

[belichick010405]

Look at his pictures. That is proof enough. You claiming otherwise is laughable.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...XWYuvheK03VO4scBNaUbwLuA&ust=1377212031231614

Google Image Result for http://media.masslive.com/breakingnews/photo/9055533-large.jpg

Prove how the argument caused the heart attack.

How about you do this - prove to me that a picture that was two years prior shows anything related to a medical condition at the time of the incident regarding Mr. Chartier? You can't make that formative opinion because it is based on supposition and assumption.

That is the point you need to understand. A lot of things could have happened medically between the time that picture was taken and in September 2012.

You are clearly assuming based on two pictures that do not tell anything about someone's health (see Chris Christie - who was overweight but did not suffer any of the traditional medical symptoms like high blood pressure or diabetes).

You can assume all you want from two pictures. But that would be the wrong assumption to make.

 

[Demosthenes]

How about you do this - prove to me that a picture that was two years prior shows anything related to a medical condition at the time of the incident regarding Mr. Chartier? You can't make that formative opinion because it is based on supposition and assumption.

That is the point you need to understand. A lot of things could have happened medically between the time that picture was taken and in September 2012.

You are clearly assuming based on two pictures that do not tell anything about someone's health (see Chris Christie - who was overweight but did not suffer any of the traditional medical symptoms like high blood pressure or diabetes).

You can assume all you want from two pictures. But that would be the wrong assumption to make.

So now you want to argue that the guy was the picture of good health ? Great. What led to him going into cardiac arrest then ?

 

[belichick010405]

So now you want to argue that the guy was the picture of good health ?

Do you know if he was in a picture of good health?

The only one that would know would be his doctor.

Everything else is speculation, assumption and supposition.

Point made.

 

[DaBruinz]

How do you know that Mr. Chartier was obese at the time of this incident?

Oh, one other thing, there is a big difference between accidental death and wrongful death.

I suggest you go back and read the ticket policy again because it doesn't distinguish between the two. I distinguished between accidental and wrongful because, in my eye, for it to have been wrongful would mean that the Patriots purposely set up an environment where people would regularly get into arguments that would result in heart attacks. And that clearly isn't the case.

You just can't bring yourself to admit that the guy was obese and exacerbated his conditions by not taking care of himself. And, in doing so, put himself at risk.

Heck, as I pointed out, even IF HEALTHY, he could have still died of Arteriosclerosis, which goes undiagnosed in MANY people. Even ones considered "healthy".

Her lawyer is going to have to prove that Mr. Chartier's health was not, in any way, shape or form, the cause of his death.

 

[belichick010405]

I suggest you go back and read the ticket policy again because it doesn't distinguish between the two. I distinguished between accidental and wrongful because, in my eye, for it to have been wrongful would mean that the Patriots purposely set up an environment where people would regularly get into arguments that would result in heart attacks. And that clearly isn't the case.

You just can't bring yourself to admit that the guy was obese and exacerbated his conditions by not taking care of himself. And, in doing so, put himself at risk.

Heck, as I pointed out, even IF HEALTHY, he could have still died of Arteriosclerosis, which goes undiagnosed in MANY people. Even ones considered "healthy".

Her lawyer is going to have to prove that Mr. Chartier's health was not, in any way, shape or form, the cause of his death.

Well - I am waiting for an answer regarding your claim on Mr. Chartier's health.