Offensive expectations

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Look bottom line is that its like this.

- Bill Belichick and Tom Brady still elite status and top duo in PRO SPORTS
- Record Breaking OC Josh McDaniels (2007, 2012 without Gronk)
- Brian Daboll (groomed and developed David Givens Deion Branch)
- Coach Dante w/ Logan Mankins, Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder and the rest
- Danny Amendola everything Wes has but better and younger 2.5 upgrade
- Rising NFL star at RB Stevan Ridley joined the 1,200 club and counting....
- Multi-Talented running-back, and pure receiver Shane Vereen
- "Horse-backs" Brandon Bolden and "hurdling" LeGarrett Blount
- Super-bowl winning and underrated pass catching TE Jake Ballard
- Rising NE Superstar Julian Edelman rivals Hernandez in change of direction
- Tim Tebow pure FOOTBALL player who McDaniel may know something....
- Aaron Dobson (Marshall "Troy Brown and Randy Moss, good history for franchise at WR) drew comparisons to Fitzgerald and Moss, and that one handed catch, just saying........
- Josh Boyce - route runner w/ lots of speed, versatility, toughness & hands
- Michael Jenkins solid and experienced vet that's been turning heads in OTA's
- Both Leon Washington and Julian Edelman give us short fields?....
- Donald Jones is unknown but has talent and played in pathetic offense, remember how he use to give us fits? Can we position and coach him to do that against other offenses?
- What does TE Zach Sudfield bring to the table, young but BIG and fast and Hands and coachable

If you now get the picture.. could go into more detail but getting tired. Bottom line we have the tools and talent to get it done without our star TE's this season.

 

[RIpats88]

I think you have to hope that Aaron Dobson or Boyce can come out and be an immediate impact rookie...because right now either one NEEDS to be..im sorry but Jenkins/jones aint going to cut it..

and Amendola, Edelman, Ballard all stay healthy

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

I think you have to hope that Aaron Dobson or Boyce can come out and be an immediate impact rookie...because right now either one NEEDS to be..im sorry but Jenkins/jones aint going to cut it..

and Amendola, Edelman, Ballard all stay healthy

You don't know, why couldn't that? They have all the tools, coaching and quarterbacking needed to. And I'm trusting Bill Belichick, thank God he is the coach and not the fans or media. You don't have to be a superstar to cut it, and Jenkins is at least average. If we made it work Reche Caldwell who is worst then Jenkins then???

 

[tonyto3690]

So you missed their 90 career starts, including a combined 18 last year and 46 the past three seasons?

Right, because Minnesota and Buffalo were so deep at WR last year. Jenkins is a bonafide starter on any team in the NFL! And Jones? Stud. Would be a #1 on 90% of teams!

I'm seriously, if you're going to try to nitpick, at least nitpick at something not so stupid. They are career backups and mediocre role players. They are not great or even good starters. And they sure as hell don't come even close to Welker/Moss.

 

[supafly]

If we made it work Reche Caldwell who is worst then Jenkins then???

Again, the optimism approach with every single Patriot related aspect is much better than being negative, but you also have to appreciate those who are somewhat concerned with the potential loss of the 2 TEs and the mismatches that they create--specifically AH.

The comparison to Reche Caldwell isn't too appropriate in this instance due to having an entirely different offense and defense. If you remember, the 2006 offense was much more ball controlled and was scoring approximately 2 TD's less per game than last season. That's a big difference. We are comparing last season's offense and their tendency to use the hurry up on 25% of all snaps to their advantage. On top of that the main concern is the alignments and use of 2 TE's, along with the ability to take advantages of mismatches vs the defense--which is what our current offense has been doing the past few years.

The defense of 2006 was something altogether different also, as they were the #2 scoring defense in the NFL which allowed a measly 14.8 points per game. We're going to win an awful lot of games if the defense only allows 14.8 points per game whether we have Reche Caldwell or four seperate Reche Caldwell clones out there.

Now, if you make the argument that we can adjust a bit and still remain very competitive then I would fully agree with you, but let's not get ahead of ourselves with comparisons of the 2006 and current teams. That's like comparing apples to oranges again. It's possible that Belichick will use more of a traditional sense of TE alignments on 1st/2nd down, and go 3 wide on 3rd down in some/many instances--and that'd be fine (maybe), but that would be exactly what many are concerned about, as the lack of unpredictability would be thrown out the window and we'd be relying a lot more of our unproven WRs.

 

[lurker1965]

Looks like we won't even have our top 5 leading receivers from '12

2006. Brady makes receivers.

 

[lurker1965]

WR: Caldwell, Gaffney
RB: Maroney
TE: Watson

PPG: 24.1 (7th in the NFL)

I think that's the minimum we can expect. We have the talent to do better, assuming health and contributions from rookies. But I don't see us doing worse than that 06 team.

Bingo. He has BINGO!

None of these expectations are particularly offensive.

Tebow circumcises Philippino children at halftime.

OK, seriously, Gronk is out until about week 4.
Hernandez is innocent and totally vindicated, but Goodell suspends him for 8 games. Upon appeal it it is reduced to 6 games. Yes that is more than (fill in name) - complain to Goodell.
Amendola has a QB that hits him in stride and rarely leads him into a safety or linebacker and may, MAY, only miss 1 or two games in mid-season. When he is out Edelman makes it so you hardly miss him - in the regular season.
A rookie WR may, MAY, break out - because Tom does need someone to throw to.

The new pass happy rules have made defenses more tailored for pass defense. The running game will be huge.

Belichick is not an idiot. If life takes away your lemons, stop making lemonade.

I won't speculate on the defense for two reasons:
First, this thread is about offense.
Second, I have no friggin' clue.

 

[QB12]

Bingo. He has BINGO!


Tebow circumcises Philippino children at halftime.

OK, seriously, Gronk is out until about week 4.
Hernandez is innocent and totally vindicated, but Goodell suspends him for 8 games. Upon appeal it it is reduced to 6 games. Yes that is more than (fill in name) - complain to Goodell.
Amendola has a QB that hits him in stride and rarely leads him into a safety or linebacker and may, MAY, only miss 1 or two games in mid-season. When he is out Edelman makes it so you hardly miss him - in the regular season.
A rookie WR may, MAY, break out - because Tom does need someone to throw to.

The new pass happy rules have made defenses more tailored for pass defense. The running game will be huge.

Belichick is not an idiot. If life takes away your lemons, stop making lemonade.

I won't speculate on the defense for two reasons:
First, this thread is about offense.
Second, I have no friggin' clue.

Your post about TEBOW is inappropriate, off-color, and offensive.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I expect a historic offense

Umm I don't. And I cringe when people use the word Tebow and offense in the same breath. Tebow should never see this field unless we are in desperate trouble.

The RBs should improve from last year but only incrementally. I see Ridley as a 1,200 to 1,500 yard back. Take that to the bank. Vereen will be given the opportunity to step up as our 3rd down back. We have quality backups in Bolden and Washington. Winn might win a spot as our 5th rb/fb.

The receivers outside of Amendola are a HUGE questionmark. Gronk's health is a questionmark. Hernandez legal status is a questionmark. Got a lot of questions in terms of catching the ball which has been a strength for us. We shall see.

 

[lurker1965]

Your post about TEBOW is inappropriate, off-color, and offensive.

Cool! Thanks! I'll be here until Tuesday. Tip your waitress.

 

[QB12]

Cool! Thanks! I'll be here until Tuesday. Tip your waitress.

You're not helping your case at all . . .

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

my expectations are still very low this year...with gronk always hurt...ahern in trouble..and only 1 good WR on the roster..they won't be as good as last year that's for sure. Going to have an off year. Hopefully they can get some playmakers around brady next year because he is almost done

 

[supafly]

2006. Brady makes receivers.

Again, I find it hard to compare any current situation to that of the 2006 team on any level. They had an offense that scored 14 pts less per game than last year, and relied on a stout defense that only gave up 14.8 ppg.

When your defense only gives up 14.8 ppg, you're going to win a lot of ballgames. I'm not sure how that relates to anything about our current offense or our current defense at this point in time?

How exactly did "Brady make receivers in 2006?" Look at their stats:

--Caldwell 61 catches 4 TD's and 760 yds

--Watson 49 catches 3 TD's and 643 yds

--Brown 43 catches 4 TD's and 483 yds

--Faulk 43 catches 2 TD's and 356 yds



Our offense was much more successful that yr due to the 2 headed rushing attack of Maroney and Dillon who had 1557 yds between the two of them, along with 19 TD's total. That may hold true this year too, but let's remember that the offense averaged about 24 pts per game back in 2006, and that our #2 scoring NFL defense is what carried us most of the time.

I would consider it a big step backwards if 3/4 of our top 4 receiving outlets only catch balls in the 40's, with TD's numbering 4..3..and 2. I don't see anything of a suggestion that "Brady made receivers" back in 2006. I think Brady made due with the miserable options that he had, and even then--the receivers hardly put up anything that we'd even consider remotely acceptable for our expectations this upcoming season, aside from maybe the rookies catching balls in the 40's (and that's IF the TE's/RB's can continue to have great production).

If getting a #4 seed in the playoffs, winning a WC game at home and then having to rely on a once in a lifetime late game strip/fumble recovery off of your QB's 3rd INT for the day, which then followed by a TD drive and a 2 pt conversion just to come back late in the 4th quarter to send the game into OT on the road is your expectation, then I suppose he did just fine with what he had to work with; but I don't look at the 2006 offensive stats and exactly think "Brady made receivers" that yr either.

We're going to need a lot more production from our receiving targets if we hope to keep our pace of scoring something even in the high 20's/low 30's; and even that would be a 7-10 point downgrade from last year. Hopefully our defense can make up for that 7-10 point difference. FWIW--I agree with you that our team will remain competitive on many higher levels, but the receiving options and concerns are well warranted in my opinion.

If your argument was that we'll carry the team with our running game, defense, and make due with more limited receiving options, then I'd see the 2006 comparison and agree with you 100% that there are more ways to win ballgames, but I think the concern is mainly coming from wanting to keep up our current hurry up pace (25% of all snaps), and scoring a lot of pts.

 

[supafly]

my expectations are still very low this year...with gronk always hurt...ahern in trouble..and only 1 good WR on the roster..they won't be as good as last year that's for sure. Going to have an off year. Hopefully they can get some playmakers around brady next year because he is almost done

I still think that the high majority will have high expectations, and I still think the team's win total will be anywhere between 11-13 games myself.

I do however, have concerns about "how" they're going to go about this due to some changes, along with the concern about the receiving options.

Hopefully our defense will improve and shave a couple of pts off of our average, and the running game will be a nice focus like last year, but I do worry as to how effective they'll be in their current system with some of the questions they have at the moment. It's possible that Belichick will adapt nicely and use a bit of a different approach, and it's also possible that our receivers will step up to the plate on some level too. That said, it's certainly possible that your expectations of lower # of wins may come true just the same.

 

[mcmurtry86]

Your post about TEBOW is inappropriate, off-color, and offensive.

How? Tebow really did help circumcise Filipino boys when he was in college (Football Star Tim Tebow Helps Circumcise Pinoy Kids | The Asian Journal Blog). Joking that he would do it again isn't really off-color or inappropriate. And I don't see how it's offensive in the slightest unless you find the act of forced circumcision to be objectionable.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I still think that the high majority will have high expectations, and I still think the team's win total will be anywhere between 11-13 games myself.

I do however, have concerns about "how" they're going to go about this due to some changes, along with the concern about the receiving options.

Hopefully our defense will improve and shave a couple of pts off of our average, and the running game will be a nice focus like last year, but I do worry as to how effective they'll be in their current system with some of the questions they have at the moment. It's possible that Belichick will adapt nicely and use a bit of a different approach, and it's also possible that our receivers will step up to the plate on some level too. That said, it's certainly possible that your expectations of lower # of wins may come true just the same.

I still see them as an 11-12 win team...But they won't be near what they did last year. If ammendola gets injured like he always does...closer to 10 wins. Without Gronk and Ahern...they have no real playmakers on O besides Brady.

Their running game will be good again.

 

[lurker1965]

You're not helping your case at all . . .

Maybe this is going over my head, but I think maybe you are serious.

I replied to "there is nothing offensive here" (or whatever) with something offensive. If you do not get the attempt at humor there, then get over yourself.

Then again maybe you are joking and I'm the fool taking this serious who should get over himself.

 

[lurker1965]

Again, I find it hard to compare any current situation to that of the 2006 team on any level. They had an offense that scored 14 pts less per game than last year, and relied on a stout defense that only gave up 14.8 ppg.

When your defense only gives up 14.8 ppg, you're going to win a lot of ballgames. I'm not sure how that relates to anything about our current offense or our current defense at this point in time?

How exactly did "Brady make receivers in 2006?" Look at their stats:

--Caldwell 61 catches 4 TD's and 760 yds

--Watson 49 catches 3 TD's and 643 yds

--Brown 43 catches 4 TD's and 483 yds

--Faulk 43 catches 2 TD's and 356 yds

...

How did Brady make receivers? Seriously? Watson, Brown and Faulk do not have great non-Brady years for comparison. But Reche Caldwell does:
Reche Caldwell stats
Can you find the one year he was with Brady without looking at the years? Hint: it is the year with over twice as many yards and more TDs.
Your defense point is valid.
Also Brady is six (seven?) years older.
Yes they were 14 ppg less, but what was the league average then? (I'm asking. I would not know where to look.)

 

[PATS16N0]

I'm noticing nobody has any love for Edelman.
He was verging on a break out year last season before he got injured.
Thinking he's going to be a big addition to our offense, and he's one of the reasons I'm not so concerned about Welker going bye bye.

 

[mcmurtry86]

I'm noticing nobody has any love for Edelman.
He was verging on a break out year last season before he got injured.
Thinking he's going to be a big addition to our offense, and he's one of the reasons I'm not so concerned about Welker going bye bye.

Until he shows the ability to stay healthy, I don't think people are going to take him seriously as a "big addition"