Offensive expectations

[mcmurtry86]

McDaniels got this offense clicking with Cassel at QB

With Wes Welker and a still-productive Randy Moss helping him out. Let's not overlook the talent that the 2008 Patriots had on offense. Brady could potentially have a starting group of Fells, Ballard, Jenkins, Amendola. Not exactly a high end collection of talent there.

 

[Bruins29]

With Wes Welker and a still-productive Randy Moss helping him out. Let's not overlook the talent that the 2008 Patriots had on offense. Brady could potentially have a starting group of Fells, Ballard, Jenkins, Amendola. Not exactly a high end collection of talent there.

Yeah, and this year he will have DA who could be just as productive as Welker and this guy Gronk who is expected to play and is on par if not better than what Moss brought to us that year.

We have deeper WR group with 2 promising rookies. We have a better running game and a deeper TE group by far.

Also our O line is better now than that year.

I am not trying to be a pink hat, homer, everything is great guy but we do have upgrades at several positions over 2008

 

[tonyto3690]

Yes! people are finally starting to see that we are abundantly talented on both sides of the ball and improved tremendously. We could have the best team seen in a while because here is the thing. There is potential and ability all over our roster but most teams don't know how to use it. Most teams....... but our staff .....

Hall of Fame and Elite Headcoach, best mind in football - Bill Belichick
Record Breaking young OC and playcaller - Josh McDaniels
Great mind in football as Asst HC and OL - Dante Scarnecchia
Perhaps the GOAT and 1st or 2nd best QB in NFL - Tom Brady
Groomed Givens, Patten, Branch, and Brown WR Coach - Brian Daboll
Veteran wisdom 10 years experience at WR - Michael Jenkins
Years of experience and knowledge at DL/LB - Pepper Johnson
Over 10 years of elite experience at safety and LB - Adrian Wilson
9 years of experience - DT Vince Wilfork
9 years of experience - DT Tommy Kelly
7 years of experience - OLB/DE Rob Ninkovich
Jerod Mayo can also offer guidance for young LBs

No is saying this team is going to be horrible.

But expecting us to have an offensive season like last year is ridiculous.

Many of those things we had last year and we still lost in the AFCCG. The ones we didn't have (Kelly, Jenkins, Daboll) are moderate if not mediocre additions that will have little to zero impact on our championship hopes this year.

If you really wanted to bring in the improved defense/STs into the equation you'd be better off talking about Washington, Edelman's hopeful health, and improvements from Chandler/Hightower, and the potential elite play of McCourty at safety for a full season.


But at the end of the day we have Amendola (a solid #2 option), and Ballard (a good #3 option) along with Jenkins (a career #4 option) and Fells (a career #5 option) as Bradys top targets. That is replacing Welker, Hernandez, and Gronk for at least the beginning of the season, all of whom are bonafide stars who would be the #1 options on a lot of other teams. Gronkowski is the #1 option on any team in the NFL except arguably Arizona and Detroit.

Appreciate the optimism, but if the offense scores 25PPG, Brady/Belichick will have pulled off a miracle.

 

[Bruins29]

Gronk should be there opening day by all accounts. Posters choosing to ignore this to further support one's Debby Downer outlook is tiresome.

 

[tonyto3690]

Yeah, and this year he will have DA who could be just as productive as Welker and this guy Gronk who is expected to play and is on par if not better than what Moss brought to us that year.

We have deeper WR group with 2 promising rookies. We have a better running game and a deeper TE group by far.

Also our O line is better now than that year.

I am not trying to be a pink hat, homer, everything is great guy but we do have upgrades at several positions over 2008

We have a solid #2 receiver in Amendola, two unproven rookies, and several proven #4s at WR. That is not deep. That is a lot of garbage and hope.

TE is deeper? Sorry, but with Hernandez potentially done for the year and Gronkowski potentially not going to be cleared to even start practice until week 1, the position is not deeper. This is not Madden.

Our OL is better and RBs are better.

Watson-Ballard are about even, but the WR position is not even remotely close. If Gronk-Hernandez were healthy and good to play all season, I'd actually tip the scales towards this year, but they aren't. We could potentially be without Hernandez the entire year and Gronk for half the season.

 

[Sciz]

Appreciate the optimism, but if the offense scores 25PPG, Brady/Belichick will have pulled off a miracle.

So you'd rather have the 2008 offense of Cassel, Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Watson, Faulk, and Morris than what the Pats have going into next season? The Cassel-led offense of 2008 scored 25.6 points per game.

 

[Bruins29]

I am figuring in Gronk. You are not. That is the difference.

Plus I dont care about 2008. We have Brady as QB, not Cassell.

Even without AH we still have Gronk, Ballad as a one-two punch at TE. Fells and Hoo are backups with Rooks being icing.

WR is still a wildcard but the season dosent start for a while. DA should be fine and hopefully we get at least one more solid guy out of the heap. Its 6 other bodies we should be able to get a baller and a couple of decent backups out of them.

RB and O line are better. QB is better.

The AH thing royally sucks but we have to play the cards we have or will have.

 

[tonyto3690]

So you'd rather have the 2008 offense of Cassel, Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Watson, Faulk, and Morris than what the Pats have going into next season? The Cassel-led offense of 2008 scored 25.6 points per game.

No because Cassel isn't Brady in the playoffs. Also that team played against the 3rd easiest schedule in the NFL and all four quality playoff teams we played against, we got blown out. The only playoff team we won against was Arizona in the snow.


I would rather have Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Watson, Faulk, Morris over Amendola, Jenkins, Ballard, Fells, Ridley, Vereen and Gronk for half a season any day.

I'm seriously. How can you even begin to argue against that. Gronk for half a season, Ridley, Vereen, and a bunch of garbage at WR or All Pro Moss and prime Welker.

 

[Bruins29]

No because Cassel isn't Brady in the playoffs. Also that team played against the 3rd easiest schedule in the NFL and all four quality playoff teams we played against, we got blown out. The only playoff team we won against was Arizona in the snow.


I would rather have Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Watson, Faulk, Morris over Amendola, Jenkins, Ballard, Fells, Ridley, Vereen and Gronk for half a season any day.

I'm seriously. How can you even begin to argue against that. Gronk for half a season, Ridley, Vereen, and a bunch of garbage at WR or All Pro Moss and prime Welker.

You're insane. Even if Gronk goes to PUP (which he wont) I would take Gronk on the back half (you know the most important part of the season) with DA, and the better depth at TE and a much better running game and O line over 2008.

Plus Washington and Edelman are major upgrades in the return game and not bad WR and 3rd down back options.

 

[mcmurtry86]

So you'd rather have the 2008 offense of Cassel, Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Watson, Faulk, and Morris than what the Pats have going into next season? The Cassel-led offense of 2008 scored 25.6 points per game.

They also put up 25.6 PPG against one of the easiest schedules in modern history. Against the type of schedule the Pats (on paper) have this year? I doubt they'd put up close to 25.6 PPG

 

[mcmurtry86]

You're insane. Even if Gronk goes to PUP (which he wont) I would take Gronk on the back half (you know the most important part of the season) with DA, and the better depth at TE and a much better running game and O line over 2008.

Plus Washington and Edelman are major upgrades in the return game and not bad WR and 3rd down back options.

If Gronk is on PUP, the Pats TE depth is awful. You have Ballard (still recovering from injury) and a bunch of fringe NFL players.

The WR's are total unknowns from how Amendola will adjust to the system to the rookies' ability to step up (and be healthy).

And better OL than 2008? Really? I don't see that. They're stronger at RT now if Vollmer is healthy but in 2008 Mankins was better than his current self and Neal/Koppen were as good or better than Wendell/Connolly.

I'll also point out that the 2008 Patriots were 7th in the league in rushing YPC and 6th in overall yards. So either the RB's were better than you're crediting them for, or the OL was. It's not some sort of slam dunk that the 2013 RB/OL group is ahead of the 2008 group. It's pretty close in terms of expected performance. They averaged 4.4 YPC in 2008. The 2012 Patriots (with the same OL and RB group you are predicting to be better than 2008) averaged 4.2 YPC.

Lastly, we have no idea what the 2013 WR group will bring. Right now, we have to assume that it will be worse than the Moss/Welker/Gaffney group.

 

[Bruins29]

I am telling you 3 things.

1. Gronk will play week one
2. 2008 schedule (as mentioned) was a joke.
3. Its not a bad as it seems.

4. Small chance AH is back.

Ok, 4 things.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

If Gronk is on PUP, the Pats TE depth is awful. You have Ballard (still recovering from injury) and a bunch of fringe NFL players.

The WR's are total unknowns from how Amendola will adjust to the system to the rookies' ability to step up (and be healthy).

And better OL than 2008? Really? I don't see that. They're stronger at RT now if Vollmer is healthy but in 2008 Mankins was better than his current self and Neal/Koppen were as good or better than Wendell/Connolly.

I'll also point out that the 2008 Patriots were 7th in the league in rushing YPC and 6th in overall yards. So either the RB's were better than you're crediting them for, or the OL was. It's not some sort of slam dunk that the 2013 RB/OL group is ahead of the 2008 group. It's pretty close in terms of expected performance. They averaged 4.4 YPC in 2008. The 2012 Patriots (with the same OL and RB group you are predicting to be better than 2008) averaged 4.2 YPC.

Lastly, we have no idea what the 2013 WR group will bring. Right now, we have to assume that it will be worse than the Moss/Welker/Gaffney group.

Why do we have to assume they will be worse? In 07 we had a complete turnaround of WR. Gronk will not be on pup. Will not happen. It hurts the team.

 

[mcmurtry86]

Why do we have to assume they will be worse?

Well, to assume that Amendola, Dobson and Boyce (+ the garbage veterans and Edelman) are going to put up numbers akin to Moss/Welker/Gaffney is beyond optimistic. Replacing Welker's production with Amendola is possible. But I don't think Dobson or Boyce will replicate Moss's 69-1008-11. I'm not sure that those guys combined put up those numbers.

Gronk will not be on pup. Will not happen. It hurts the team.

It hurts the team more if he is forced to play through a back injury before he is fully recovered so your point is pretty meaningless

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Well, to assume that Amendola, Dobson and Boyce (+ the garbage veterans and Edelman) are going to put up numbers akin to Moss/Welker/Gaffney is beyond optimistic. Replacing Welker's production with Amendola is possible. But I don't think Dobson or Boyce will replicate Moss's 69-1008-11. I'm not sure that those guys combined put up those numbers.




It hurts the team more if he is forced to play through a back injury before he is fully recovered so your point is pretty meaningless

My point is not pointless, yours is. You don't have to be on pup to not play. He can be inactive for a week or 2 or be limited.

Who knows the the offense will do. But counting out that the rookies or new guys won't put up great production isn't far fetched. Dobson, Jenkins and that udfa will have the same amount of time as moss before game 1. We could see a repeat 07, its the NFL. We won't know what will happen until it happens.

 

[Bruins29]

It hurts the team more if he is forced to play through a back injury before he is fully recovered so your point is pretty meaningless

First of all it wasnt a bad back injury. Stop sensationalizing.

Second (for the 100th time) if you reserve PUP Gronk that means that he will not have been on a football practice field since the last time he practiced last year until 6 weeks into this upcoming seasons.

These guys are not race cars. They are humans. You just dont step into the NFL with that much of a practice gap and expect to:

1. Contribute
2. Not get hurt.

That is right. There is probably a greater chance of Gronk getting hurt if he is just thrust into the NFL week 6 or 7 with no training camp preseason, or practice. You dont just switch on any football player. That is how serious injuries happen.

You leave your best player (who needs that practice on the roster) then he can ease himself into football shape slowly. Plsu with the possibility of AH not being around it makes Gronk being there even more important.

This is all of course if Gronks health does not regress.

PUP is not as simple as it sounds.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Well, to assume that Amendola, Dobson and Boyce (+ the garbage veterans and Edelman) are going to put up numbers akin to Moss/Welker/Gaffney is beyond optimistic. Replacing Welker's production with Amendola is possible. But I don't think Dobson or Boyce will replicate Moss's 69-1008-11. I'm not sure that those guys combined put up those numbers.




It hurts the team more if he is forced to play through a back injury before he is fully recovered so your point is pretty meaningless

Once again, the only numbers that count are the touchdowns and efficiency in moving the chains to get first downs when we need them and touch downs in the post season when we need them the most. The reason I like David Givens, Deion Branch, David Patten and Troy Brown is because they didn't put up great stats during the season.. like Moss/Welker/Gaffney (all those stats yet we LOST the most important game, the only stat that counts is a win, and a SB title) average numbers but their TD's, first downs and big plays came when we needed them the most. And the crap about the defense they had doesn't matter, because the offense STILL HAD TO DO their part. So if those guys could get it done, then the group we have now could definitely get it done because they are more talented then the 4 that we one the SB with. And garbage veterans? Michael Jenkins is garbage? And why should Dodson have to replicate Moss? Like who could replicate him? that's stupid respectfully.

- We have Dobson, big strong and fast athletic kid with great hands that can stretch the field and catch the ball outside the hash marks.

- Josh Boyce can run any route, he can get deep or intermediate, even underneath and he has size, speed, solid hands and elusive after the catch. He was making big time plays with A BROKEN FOOT for crying out loud.

But the one thing in common that Bill seen in these two that he didn't draft in the past is intel and versatiliy. Both players are intelligent, smart, VERSATILE and played in complex offensive pro-like systems so that will help them pick up the playbook faster. And they are young so they have juice and explosiveness.

I don't have to explain Amendola, you know what he can do when healthy, me personally I think he can become a huge mega star with , Julian Edelman is a fun player to watch and improving steadily in the slot and Shane Vereen offers an extra wide receiver out of the backfield.

Jake Ballard in regards is solid and a very good blocker and pass catcher and should fit in just fine.

We have to tools, talent just a matter of getting it down on the field.

Then to top all of that off, Rob Gronkowski at some point next season will be back.

 

[tonyto3690]

Why do we have to assume they will be worse? In 07 we had a complete turnaround of WR. Gronk will not be on pup. Will not happen. It hurts the team.

I've heard this argument before.

Moss has proven he could physically dominate the NFL. He just was on a Raiders team where it was a complete joke and he just lost focus.

Welker we gave up a 2nd round pick for.


And lastly and most importantly, just because a miracle happens and we hit the jackpot once DOES NOT MEAN ITS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN. If we draft a sixth round QB does that mean he is going to be (or even has the faintest chance) of being the next Tom Brady for us? NO.

Our WRs consist of
-Amendola: Has been injured more games than started
-Dobson: Unproven rookie
-Boyce: Unproven rookie
-Edelman: Solid #2 playmaker with injury concerns
-Jenkins/Jones/etc: Garbage who have never been more than career backups.

 

[Sciz]

-Jenkins/Jones/etc: Garbage who have never been more than career backups.

So you missed their 90 career starts, including a combined 18 last year and 46 the past three seasons?

 

[Archeryaddict12]

I've heard this argument before.

Moss has proven he could physically dominate the NFL. He just was on a Raiders team where it was a complete joke and he just lost focus.

Welker we gave up a 2nd round pick for.


And lastly and most importantly, just because a miracle happens and we hit the jackpot once DOES NOT MEAN ITS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN. If we draft a sixth round QB does that mean he is going to be (or even has the faintest chance) of being the next Tom Brady for us? NO.

Our WRs consist of
-Amendola: Has been injured more games than started
-Dobson: Unproven rookie
-Boyce: Unproven rookie
-Edelman: Solid #2 playmaker with injury concerns
-Jenkins/Jones/etc: Garbage who have never been more than career backups.

It doesn't mean it won't happen? There have been rookies that have come in to help. The only thing that counts is if we win games. If everyone contributes we will have a fantastic season on O. And jones/ Jenkins are garbage? I beg to differ.