Bedard on radio talking Pats right now

[patsfanincleveland]

I think he meant the year before. And it was Bill O'Brien and Brady who were stymied by the fact the Steelers abandoned their zone defense for man to man.

I look at that game like the Jets playoff game. The Pats were caught off guard by a team that doesn't run a gameplan specific defense and they did on that day to play Pats more so than the team figuring out a weakness in the Pats' offense.

If it was a Jets' type of situation, Brady and McDaniels will adjust and do just fine. Since that Jets' playoff game, Brady has thrown 9 TDs and only 1 INT in four games vs. the Jets. My guess is LeBeau and the Steelers won't sneak up on the Pats this time around.

That about sums it up.

 

[Tunescribe]

I've already packed and jumped...hope the chute opens...

Reminds me of my days as a skydiver -- 191 jumps in all.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

His agent said the back is a minor issue and is being done now because the recovery time overlaps, so it won't extend it any further.

I can't classify any back issue as minor, particularly one that likely needs surgery to be resolved. Back issues also don't go away the way an arm infection does. It's especially worrying because Gronk bangs with the hosses half of the time, and the other half of the time he is dragging defensive backs downfield and taking multiple shots per catch.

Parlay that with the fact that Gronk doesn't have the presence of mind to chill out and let his body heal, and you could argue no injury is minor for him. No way should that foot injury have been a lingering issue 8 months after the injury occurred.

 

[Ivan]

His agent said the back is a minor issue and is being done now because the recovery time overlaps, so it won't extend it any further.

Fortunately Gronk's agent is Tommy Flanagan so we know it's just a minor issue.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I hope the kid makes a tremendous leap in play quality in year two, but are you really going to toss out the "objective fact" stuff here? OK....



The guy you pimp him for beating out is a guy who's been a bust from the beginning because he couldn't cover worth a damn, and who the team let walk. When the season was on the line, Wilson was on the bench while a mediocrity like Gregory was racking up the playing time.

As for the overall playing time, here's more from Reiss:



Defensive snaps - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

So he couldn't beat out Gregory, he was kept off the field in the AFCCG, and this is despite the fact that he was on a team that couldn't stop anyone until Talib showed up and other major changes were made.

Yeah, that's a world of success. How he wasn't voted first team All Pro is a mystery that may never be solved.

Thanks Deus, we are all Patriot fans and hope they do well too, I never want to overlook that fact, too.

I would point out that Belichick has every right to be disappointed in the Safeties the scouts have nominated as superior athletes, and he drafted. He found that there were missing qualities over and above athleticism needed for certain positions. We all recognize that applies for the QB position. BB has merely counterpointed that similar qualities are needed at the captain of the Defense, the Safety position.

BB found that James Sanders who had nowhere near the athleticism or talent of Meriwether or Chung, seemed to be more effective. Principally, because he accepted coaching, and his play emphasized team defense, among these missing attributes.

In the final analysis, Sanders just did not have the inherent talent or size, so BB decided to draft another but a bigger and better Sanders type.

IMHO, but not yours, I think Tavon is coming along very well. His rookie season was not an All Pro and we both, along with BB, recognize it. So much so, that BB felt encouraged enough to do the same, once again.

Teams were getting ready to draft Safeties, BB felt the train was leaving the station. Lets look at the next three S drafted.

a) Duke Williams has been arrested so many times he has difficulty counting so high. Hardly a defensive team captain.
b) Shamarko Thomas, 5'7" super shrimp, is simply too small for a SS which is his only position.
c) Phillip Thomas, big and slow. He played, free-lanced, and gambled a lot at Fresno State. BB has an "in" at that school, so he could check for the qualities he seeks. Maybe Thomas doesn't accept coaching, or is not a natural leader, which BB seeks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks Deus, we are all Patriot fans and hope they do well too, I never want to overlook that fact, too.

I would point out that Belichick has every right to be disappointed in the Safeties the scouts have nominated as superior athletes, and he drafted. He found that there were missing qualities over and above athleticism needed for certain positions. We all recognize that applies for the QB position. BB has merely counterpointed that similar qualities are needed at the captain of the Defense, the Safety position.

BB found that James Sanders who had nowhere near the athleticism or talent of Meriwether or Chung, seemed to be more effective. Principally, because he accepted coaching, and his play emphasized team defense, among these missing attributes.

In the final analysis, Sanders just did not have the inherent talent or size, so BB decided to draft another but a bigger and better Sanders type.

IMHO, but not yours, I think Tavon is coming along very well. His rookie season was not an All Pro and we both, along with BB, recognize it. So much so, that BB felt encouraged enough to do the same, once again.

Teams were getting ready to draft Safeties, BB felt the train was leaving the station. Lets look at the next three S drafted.

a) Duke Williams has been arrested so many times he has difficulty counting so high. Hardly a defensive team captain.
b) Shamarko Thomas, 5'7" super shrimp, is simply too small for a SS which is his only position.
c) Phillip Thomas, big and slow. He played, free-lanced, and gambled a lot at Fresno State. BB has an "in" at that school, so he could check for the qualities he seeks. Maybe Thomas doesn't accept coaching, or is not a natural leader, which BB seeks.

In a bad draft for safeties (known in advance), BB panicked (or just really blew it) and overdrafted at the position. Then, this year, in a good draft for safeties and WRs, he takes an unneeded LB before taking the needed positions.

He got it ass-backwards, we're now stuck in the position of hoping that he got lucky enough to cover up his drafting screwups, and Wilson's lousy play last year is not a good sign that this will be the case. Hopefully he can turn it around.

 

[DocHoliday]

In a bad draft for safeties (known in advance), BB panicked (or just really blew it) and overdrafted at the position. Then, this year, in a good draft for safeties and WRs, he takes an unneeded LB before taking the needed positions.

He got it ass-backwards, we're now stuck in the position of hoping that he got lucky enough to cover up his drafting screwups, and Wilson's lousy play last year is not a good sign that this will be the case. Hopefully he can turn it around.

There's no such thing as 'overdrafted' when it comes to BB. The fact that you say overdrafted means you're using the rankings provided by the media.

Bill's draftboards have no relation to draftnik rankings, so it's impossible to say he overdrafted anyone unless you're taking the draftnik rankings as gospel.

 

[Deus Irae]

There's no such thing as 'overdrafted' when it comes to BB.

That is simply not true.

 

[JackBauer]

In a bad draft for safeties (known in advance), BB panicked (or just really blew it) and overdrafted at the position. Then, this year, in a good draft for safeties and WRs, he takes an unneeded LB before taking the needed positions.

He got it ass-backwards, we're now stuck in the position of hoping that he got lucky enough to cover up his drafting screwups, and Wilson's lousy play last year is not a good sign that this will be the case. Hopefully he can turn it around.

Still waiting to hear how drafting a pass rusher, perhaps the single greatest area of need, was an "unneeded" addition.

 

[everlong]

Reminds me of my days as a skydiver -- 191 jumps in all.

I have around 1400. Where did you jump out of locally? I've jumped at all the local DZ's but mostly Lebanon and Pepperell.

 

[supafly]

Still waiting to hear how drafting a pass rusher, perhaps the single greatest area of need, was an "unneeded" addition.

I have no problems with the choice of Collins himself, and if Belichick liked him that much then it makes a ton of sense. I agree with you that it was certainly a need, and there may even be some pre-planning ahead of time to Spikes' departure which would increase the need of not only a quick coverage LB, but another high pick LB in general.

However, I think I can understand the other side of the argument too, that some think there may have been other positions and players who were more of a priority.

At the end of the debate, all we can do is trust Belichick. He's the guy who's opinion matters the most, and the guy who gets paid millions to make these decisions. However, the thought of some picks being questioned is just human nature in my opinion.

 

[JackBauer]

I have no problems with the choice of Collins himself, and if Belichick liked him that much then it makes a ton of sense. I agree with you that it was certainly a need, and there may even be some pre-planning ahead of time to Spikes' departure which would increase the need of not only a quick coverage LB, but another high pick LB in general.

However, I think I can understand the other side of the argument too, that some think there may have been other positions and players who were more of a priority.

At the end of the debate, all we can do is trust Belichick. He's the guy who's opinion matters the most, and the guy who gets paid millions to make these decisions. However, the thought of some picks being questioned is just human nature in my opinion.

I believe the word Deus used before was redundant in describing Collins' selection.

I don't really have an issue with the belief BB should have drafted another position at that spot (though personally I don't mind since he covered the bases I thought he needed to with players whom I'm generally high on, save Harmon whom I know nothing about). It's simply the notion that Collins is "redundant" or "unneeded" that strikes me as pure folly.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

His agent said the back is a minor issue and is being done now because the recovery time overlaps, so it won't extend it any further.

N.B. that JPP just had a similar disc surgery and is "expected" to be ready week 1

 

[Ivan]

I guess we are all going to have to chip in and buy Belichick a ThunderJacket because according to our resident draft expert this is the second year in a row where he has "panicked" during the draft and made an unconscionable mistake.

 

[Sicilian]

Belichick doesn't strike me as the type who panics. In fact if anything he overthinks things and talks himself into bizarre choices (some work, some don't). You want to argue he reached for a player that's fine. But he reached for a player he liked. Right or wrong about the choice, I don't believe he would reach for a player he didn't think would succeed just to draft for a particular position.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

In a bad draft for safeties (known in advance), BB panicked (or just really blew it) and overdrafted at the position. Then, this year, in a good draft for safeties and WRs, he takes an unneeded LB before taking the needed positions.

He got it ass-backwards, we're now stuck in the position of hoping that he got lucky enough to cover up his drafting screwups, and Wilson's lousy play last year is not a good sign that this will be the case. Hopefully he can turn it around.

It's admirable how you never let the handicap of being completely clueless keep you from posting on various threads.

 

[Ivan]

The patriots already addressed safety during the offseason with the addition of A. Wilson and the move of McCourty to full time safety, a pass rushing LB who can cover was an absolute need for the Patriots and addressing it with a high pick was as good a way to deal with that need as there was.

 

[Rob0729]

In a bad draft for safeties (known in advance), BB panicked (or just really blew it) and overdrafted at the position. Then, this year, in a good draft for safeties and WRs, he takes an unneeded LB before taking the needed positions.

He got it ass-backwards, we're now stuck in the position of hoping that he got lucky enough to cover up his drafting screwups, and Wilson's lousy play last year is not a good sign that this will be the case. Hopefully he can turn it around.

A few things:

• Pass rush was a huge need for the Pats. Collins is a very good pass rusher prospect. He can play DE on passing downs which is a need. I think pass rush was the Pats' biggest need.
• I don't know if the Pats saw any difference between the WR they could have taken in the Collins spot and when they took Dobson. In fact, if Collins was gone, they might have taken Dobson in that position. Someone on this board claimed to have inside knowledge that the Pats had Dobson as their third highest rated WR in the draft after Tavon Austin and Robert Wood (both of whom were drafted before Collins).
• Wilson had an up and down season. Sometimes he played pretty well (earlier in the season). Others he was awful (later in the season). He could become a good player because consistency was his biggest issue. He had other issues.
• The class for WR was overrated. There was only one great prospect and everyone else were a bunch of solid second and third round prospects. Dobson was in that class and depending on who you talk to was at the higher end or lower end of that group of solid second and third round WRs. It wasn't like the draft class of 2004 where seven WRs went in the first round. Only Tavon Austin universally had a first round grade.

Not saying the Pats got it right, but I don't put what the media says is a strength of a draft and who drafted well and who didn't as gospel. Many horrible drafts turn out to be outstanding drafts.

It is safe to assume Harmon would have been available several rounds later. But then again, he might not have. If you switch the draft order of him and Michael Buchanan and no one would be complaining about either guy on the roster because Buchanan was drafted where Harmon was expected to be drafted and Harmon was drafted where Buchanon was expected to be drafted.

 

[Deus Irae]

A few things:

Pass rush was a huge need for the Pats. Collins is a very good pass rusher prospect. He can play DE on passing downs which is a need. I think pass rush was the Pats' biggest need.

A linebacker was about the least important position to take in the draft, short of QB, TE and RB.

I don't know if the Pats saw any difference between the WR they could have taken in the Collins spot and when they took Dobson. In fact, if Collins was gone, they might have taken Dobson in that position. Someone on this board claimed to have inside knowledge that the Pats had Dobson as their third highest rated WR in the draft after Tavon Austin and Robert Wood (both of whom were drafted before Collins).

I don't buy the inside stuff from random posters when none of the reporters have the info.

Wilson had an up and down season. Sometimes he played pretty well (earlier in the season). Others he was awful (later in the season). He could become a good player because consistency was his biggest issue. He had other issues.

Wilson sucked for most of the season. He had a short stretch were he didn't. That's a far cry from playing pretty well. That doesn't mean that he can't still become a quality player, but the team still went out and drafted a safety as well as bringing in another Wilson, which I consider informative, and not in a way I consider promising.

The class for WR was overrated. There was only one great prospect and everyone else were a bunch of solid second and third round prospects. Dobson was in that class and depending on who you talk to was at the higher end or lower end of that group of solid second and third round WRs. It wasn't like the draft class of 2004 where seven WRs went in the first round. Only Tavon Austin universally had a first round grade.
[/LIST]

You're confusing "The class for WR didn't have an elite outside WR prospect" with being overrated, IMO. They aren't the same thing, at all. This was a draft deep with level 2 WR prospects.

Not saying the Pats got it right, but I don't put what the media says is a strength of a draft and who drafted well and who didn't as gospel. Many horrible drafts turn out to be outstanding drafts.

It's a frequent occurence around here for the homers to downplay the media when they disagree with the team, and to play it up with they agree, and for the pessimists to go the other way. In this case, as you know, my comments about the team needs, and then about the team's attempts to fix those needs, were happening independent of the media, and usually before the media had commented on them. The media in this town is no better or worse than most media, which means that it's about as good at analysis as a typical message board poster.

It is safe to assume Harmon would have been available several rounds later. But then again, he might not have. If you switch the draft order of him and Michael Buchanan and no one would be complaining about either guy on the roster because Buchanan was drafted where Harmon was expected to be drafted and Harmon was drafted where Buchanon was expected to be drafted.

Belichick screwed up the draft starting with his first draft pick, IMO. The rest was just a continuation, and Harmon was just the icing on the cake. No doubt, though, there will be all sorts of claims about a team (or teams) who were going to take Harmon with the very next pick. I think BB had a chance to do great things this offseason, and that he instead screwed up on just about every level. I hope I'm wrong, and time will tell. We'll know on some things in weeks or months, and others will take years to really be sure about.

 

[Christian]

A linebacker was about the least important position to take in the draft, short of QB, TE and RB.



I don't buy the inside stuff from random posters when none of the reporters have the info.



Wilson sucked for most of the season. He had a short stretch were he didn't. That's a far cry from playing pretty well. That doesn't mean that he can't still become a quality player, but the team still went out and drafted a safety as well as bringing in another Wilson, which I consider informative, and not in a way I consider promising.



You're confusing "The class for WR didn't have an elite outside WR prospect" with being overrated, IMO. They aren't the same thing, at all. This was a draft deep with level 2 WR prospects.



It's a frequent occurence around here for the homers to downplay the media when they disagree with the team, and to play it up with they agree, and for the pessimists to go the other way. In this case, as you know, my comments about the team needs, and then about the team's attempts to fix those needs, were happening independent of the media, and usually before the media had commented on them. The media in this town is no better or worse than most media, which means that it's about as good at analysis as a typical message board poster.



Belichick screwed up the draft starting with his first draft pick, IMO. The rest was just a continuation, and Harmon was just the icing on the cake. No doubt, though, there will be all sorts of claims about a team (or teams) who were going to take Harmon with the very next pick. I think BB had a chance to do great things this offseason, and that he instead screwed up on just about every level. I hope I'm wrong, and time will tell. We'll know on some things in weeks or months, and others will take years to really be sure about.

While I agree with most of your post, I'm just curious to ask...what position would you have gone with that first pick the Patriots had? Do you agree that they should have traded out of the first round to acquire more picks?

To me, WR, DL and CB were the biggest needs...probably in that order. I really would have loved to get DeAndre Hopkins, but he was gone before our first round pick....and I wasn't thrilled immediately with the Collins pick, because I didn't know who he was. But after reading so much about him...I came to the conclusion that he can help the defense in a variety of ways. The GOAL is for him to develop into an all purpose hybrid LB/DE who can rush the passer and also cover....while being an absolute BEAST of an athlete on the field and make plays. If that's the case and that is what he turns into, then he would have addressed 2 needs in one...coverage AND pass rush. That cannot be overlooked.