Boston Herald: Pats close to re-signing Vollmer

[JMC00]

5 million for rookies

I'm just gonna take that as you haven't been reading the cap thread and are just going by what the reporters are saying.

But if Patriots don't acquire anymore picks the rookies would probably only add about a $1 million to the cap.

The 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks would wipe the three lowest contracts out of the top 51.

So the 1st round pick would only add about $800k to the cap, the 2nd round pick roughly $150k, 3rd round pick roughly $50k

And if any UDRFA were to get picked up they wouldn't effect the cap as it is very doubtful they would get anything that puts them in the top 51 and if any UDRFA were to make the roster after camp it would mean someone making more wouldn't, therefore making it a wash or actually clearing a tiny bit of cap space

 

[everlong]

Cherilus got 7 million aav 5/34.5
Andre Smith is still waiting and expecting something in the 8--8.5 range
Jake Long received 9 million aav 4/36
Brandon Albert got 10m on the franchise tag

I didn't include the LTs and Cherilus got overpaid and Smith is high.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yeah, there is no way that Vollmer gets 9 million. A RT with back issues won't get that much.

I was going with what jake long signed for...36 million over 4 years. He has injury issues as well....

 

[JackBauer]

I was going with what jake long signed for...36 million over 4 years. He has injury issues as well....

And that's why the Rams are not a good franchise.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

15 million in cap space is not good....9 million for vollmer, 5 million for rookies, and 1 million leftover to sign a pass rusher. You can kiss dumerville good bye.

A) Vollmer won't cost $9 million against the cap in his first year
B) We don't need 5 million for rookies, we only have like 3-4 picks and they're all late in the rounds, so its not going to take a lot of money to sign at most 4 rookies.. a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and then they dont pick again until the 7th round. It will only take about $2-3 million to sign everybody.


They have to be careful though, because they usually look at everything in a 2 year window, and they have some solid core players that are on rookie deals that will expire soon.. including Spikes, Solder, McCourty, Ridley and probably Alfonzo Dennard since he was drafted in the 7th round his contract I would imagine is only a 3 year deal.

I really wanted to see them go after a pass rusher, but even if they don't its not the end of the world.. We have Chandler Jones, Jermaine Cunningham and Bequette has had a year to develop so hopefully he can come in and contribute. We still have Ninkovich and Armstead could help in that area as well. They still could definitely use a veteran pass rusher though, but I don't think they'll have to break the bank for a Freeney or Abraham, they'll probly give them a 1-2 year deal so its still very possible.

They could also invest one of those early picks into a DE/OLB as well.. There is still the entire draft process to try and fill some holes, and free agency will continue all the way until training camp. I think that if they can just solidify that secondary and strengthen the front 7 with some depth, that should result in more pressure on the QB anyways.

 

[supafly]

But if Patriots don't acquire anymore picks the rookies would probably only add about a $1 million to the cap.

The 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks would wipe the three lowest contracts out of the top 51.

So the 1st round pick would only add about $800k to the cap, the 2nd round pick roughly $150k, 3rd round pick roughly $50k

Could you explain this to me a little better? Most here have the rookies taking up at least 2m--2.5m or so of the cap.

How would the 3 new high draft picks wipe out the 3 lowest contracts?

Nate Solder had a 1.55m dollar cap hit his rookie year in 2011, on a 4/8.5m deal. (1st round)

Ras-I-Dowling had about a 1m dollar cap hit in his rookie year in 2011, on a 4/5.3m deal. (2nd round)

How are 1.5 and 1.0 million dollar cap hits going to wipe out salaries/cap hits of the 3 lowest salaries on the top 51?

 

[PatRiot]

As a native german speaker I can only say well done

Hopefully he'll sign soon for a reasonable deal.

Jaaaaaaaa - nimm dieses Biest unter Vertrag Bill, er wird es Dir danken.

:rocker::rocker::rocker:

 

[supafly]

We don't need 5 million for rookies, we only have like 3-4 picks and they're all late in the rounds, so its not going to take a lot of money to sign at most 4 rookies..

There are 5 draft picks in total, and there's an excellent chance that Belichick trades down in a round and accumulates a 6th draft pick. I'd agree that 2-3 million is a good range of expectations as far as cap hits. Most have it higher, a few have it lower.

EDIT: After looking at the placement of the picks in each round (pick 29, 58, etc) it appears that our 2-3m estimate is too high, and shouldn't be any worse than about 1.25m even with an additional pick. Thanks to JMC00 for pointing out the placement of each round.

They have to be careful though, because they usually look at everything in a 2 year window, and they have some solid core players that are on rookie deals that will expire soon.. including Spikes, Solder, McCourty, Ridley and probably Alfonzo Dennard since he was drafted in the 7th round his contract I would imagine is only a 3 year deal.

Solder has 2 yrs remaining

McCourty has 2 yrs remaining

Ridley has 2 yrs remaining

Dennard has 3 yrs remaining (he did sign a 4 yr deal worth 2.157 million)



Spikes is the only player they need to worry about in the immediate future of the next 12 months, and there's a chance he's gone anyway unless he shows at least as much as last year, if not improvement altogether.

I would agree that they need to always keep the future in mind, and they always do. Every single year we have a handful of key players whose contracts expire in the next couple of seasons.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Could you explain this to me a little better? Most here have the rookies taking up at least 2m--2.5m or so of the cap.

How would the 3 new high draft picks wipe out the 3 lowest contracts?

Nate Solder had a 1.55m dollar cap hit his rookie year in 2011, on a 4/8.5m deal. (1st round)

Ras-I-Dowling had about a 1m dollar cap hit in his rookie year in 2011, on a 4/5.3m deal. (2nd round)

How are 1.5 and 1.0 million dollar cap hits going to wipe out salaries/cap hits of the 3 lowest salaries on the top 51?

Brief & mostly accurate:
Each of say the 1st 3 draft picks bumps one of the top 51 Pats off the top 51. Each of those bottom Top 51 guys bumped made ~$500K so the 1st "new" $500k of each rookie's salary counts nada against the cap

 

[JMC00]

Could you explain this to me a little better? Most here have the rookies taking up at least 2m--2.5m or so of the cap.

How would the 3 new high draft picks wipe out the 3 lowest contracts?

Nate Solder had a 1.55m dollar cap hit his rookie year in 2011, on a 4/8.5m deal. (1st round)

Ras-I-Dowling had about a 1m dollar cap hit in his rookie year in 2011, on a 4/5.3m deal. (2nd round)

How are 1.5 and 1.0 million dollar cap hits going to wipe out salaries/cap hits of the 3 lowest salaries on the top 51?


How are 1.5 and 1.0 million dollar cap hits going to wipe out salaries/cap hits of the 3 lowest salaries on the top 51?

Only the top 51 contracts are counted. Therefore the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick would be in the top 51, which means they would knock the 3 lowest contracts out.

Well first Nate Solder was the 17th pick. Pats have #29. Dowling was the first pick in the 2nd round. Pats 2nd round pick is #58 which is closer to the top 3rd round pick than it is the top 2nd round pick.

29th pick won't be a 1.5 million dollar hit and the 58th pick won't be a 1 million dollar hit.

2012
29th pick Harrison Smith- $1,297,000 cap hit
58th pick Vinny Curry- $615,000 cap hit
91st pick Lamar Holmes- $520,000 cap hit
$2,435,000

The 3 lowest contracts that those 3 draft picks would replace in the top 51 are about $480k each, x 3= $1,440,000

$2,435,000- $1,440,000= $995,000.

$995,000 would be what the cap would increase by

 

[patsfaninpa]

Only the top 51 contracts are counted. Therefore the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick would be in the top 51, which means they would knock the 3 lowest contracts out.

Well first Nate Solder was the 17th pick. Pats have #29. Dowling was the first pick in the 2nd round. Pats 2nd round pick is #58 which is closer to the top 3rd round pick than it is the top 2nd round pick.

29th pick won't be a 1.5 million dollar hit and the 58th pick won't be a 1 million dollar hit.

2012
29th pick Harrison Smith- $1,297,00 cap hit
58th pick Vinny Curry- $615,000 cap hit
91st pick Lamar Holmes- $520,000 cap hit
$2,435,000

The 3 lowest contracts that those 3 draft picks would replace in the top 51 are for about $480k each, x 3= $1,440,000

$2,435,000- $1,440,000= $995,000.

$995,000 would be what the cap would increase by

If we draft a rookie K in the 7th and he beats out Gostowski. You even have that covered.

 

[supafly]

The 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks would wipe the three lowest contracts out of the top 51.

This was the sentence that I didn't quite understand. I somehow thought you were claiming that the 3 highest picks would be in the lowest of the roster.

Only the top 51 contracts are counted. Therefore the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick would be in the top 51, which means they would knock the 3 lowest contracts out.

Well first Nate Solder was the 17th pick. Pats have #29. Dowling was the first pick in the 2nd round. Pats 2nd round pick is #58 which is closer to the top 3rd round pick than it is the top 2nd round pick.

29th pick won't be a 1.5 million dollar hit and the 58th pick won't be a 1 million dollar hit.

2012
29th pick Harrison Smith- $1,297,000 cap hit
58th pick Vinny Curry- $615,000 cap hit
91st pick Lamar Holmes- $520,000 cap hit
$2,435,000

The 3 lowest contracts that those 3 draft picks would replace in the top 51 are about $480k each, x 3= $1,440,000

$2,435,000- $1,440,000= $995,000.

$995,000 would be what the cap would increase by

I suppose my mistake was using the past draft picks of Solder and Dowling for comparison's sake.

I figured Solder (as my example) would only knock of approx.450,000 of his 1.5m thus giving us an additional 1.1m dollar cap hit, and so on and so forth.

Your using the placement of the rounds makes much more sense. Thanks.

 

[JMC00]

If we draft a rookie K in the 7th and he beats out Gostowski. You even have that covered.

Well if Gostkowski was to get cut the Pats would clear about $1.3 million in cap space.

So essentially Gostkowski getting cut alone would clear enough that the top 3 rookie picks by the Pats wouldn't even effect the cap and the rookie kicker's cap would be a wash with whoever he knocked out of the top 51.

 

[supafly]

If we draft a rookie K in the 7th and he beats out Gostowski. You even have that covered.

As much as we keep hearing about that possibility, he'd better have a booming leg on kickoffs.

 

[supafly]

Brief & mostly accurate:
Each of say the 1st 3 draft picks bumps one of the top 51 Pats off the top 51. Each of those bottom Top 51 guys bumped made ~$500K so the 1st "new" $500k of each rookie's salary counts nada against the cap

Thanks, PWP. My mistake was not taking into account the placement of each individual pick in each round, as I was using Solder (pick 17) and Dowling (pick 33) as incorrect comparisons. This is why I had a higher total.

Looking at the actual placement of each round (pick 29, 58, etc) makes more sense as to why it would be lower than 2-2.5m dollars, and probably no more than 1.25m even with an additional pick.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Jaaaaaaaa - nimm dieses Biest unter Vertrag Bill, er wird es Dir danken.

:rocker::rocker::rocker:

That's easy for you to say/write.

 

[Brady6]

Well if Gostkowski was to get cut the Pats would clear about $1.3 million in cap space.

So essentially Gostkowski getting cut alone would clear enough that the top 3 rookie picks by the Pats wouldn't even effect the cap and the rookie kicker's cap would be a wash with whoever he knocked out of the top 51.

http://www.patscap.com/

According to this we're currently under by $14.6 million, I'd project Vollmer's cap hit (not his average salary) will be in the neighborhood of $4-4.5 million dollars leaving us with $10+ million, likely it will cost at most $2 million.

 

[Deus Irae]

But..but..all 3 of our big free agents are the BEST available this year at their positions, and will definitely be setting the market with the highest salaries

Comical thinking here on patsfans.

Most people here were saying:

Welker's the best slot WR (he is), but he'll get less than the outside guys
Talib's got character issues
Vollmer's got injury issues and they hampered his play last year

 

[BradyFTW!]

15 million in cap space is not good....9 million for vollmer, 5 million for rookies, and 1 million leftover to sign a pass rusher. You can kiss dumerville good bye.

9 million for Vollmer? That's what Jake Long just got, and he's an elite LT whose value is knocked down because of the same types of injuries that Vollmer has. I'd be surprised if SeaBass counts for $5M against the cap this year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You're also quoting the lower end of the market. While the poster you're responding to is insane to think that Vollmer will get anything close to 9 million, not to mention he's failing to take into acct the year one cap hit, there are other OT's who may be comparable to him who are making more.

Cherilus got 7 million aav 5/34.5
Andre Smith is still waiting and expecting something in the 8--8.5 range
Jake Long received 9 million aav 4/36
Brandon Albert got 10m on the franchise tag

I think it's possible that Vollmer sees himself closer to the higher end of the market than the lower end, so something in the middle would probably be appropriate and fair. I would expect that to be in the 7--7.5 m range (what he's looking for). Of course I don't expect the Pats to pay that though, and I think they are looking at something in your 6m range, possibly even in the 5.5m range. Hopefully they can reach something near your 6m proposal as meeting in the middle.

Cherilus contract was ridiculous - nobody else would have paid him that, and nobody else will pay a comparable player that. Good for him that he got the money, but any other tackle of similar value who waits around hoping to get that some money will be waiting straight through September. He's the absolute ceiling of what Vollmer could conceivably get. More realistically, since that was a terrible contract the moment that it was signed, he'll get considerably less.

Long is a LT, so he's not really a valid comparable.