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Huge offseason ahead...


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At least, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong!

Hey I have questions about Merriweather too. :) I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about the shooting incident because his actions were legal. The gun was indeed licensed, he was at his home, his friend got shot in the butt, and he returned fire. Fine.

The PROBLEM that cannot be explained away is him stomping on somebody in that melee. His actions were WRONG.

Now BB has seen tons of NFL draftees. He has seen em'all. If BB sizes him up and is willing to select him, because of Bill's history, I will give Merriweather the benefit of the doubt. :)
 
You need a better schtick, because this one ain't working. Very bad metaphor. Assuming the team's makeup with Samuel on it is like throwing darts? Pretty bad comparison. Let me make it easier for you. Assuming Samuel on the Patriots next year is an either/or proposition. You see, that's how you do it. So, either way, we have to speculate what the Patriots needs will be. Because, when you come right down to it, that's what this entire board is about, speculating. Otherwise known as "using our brain." I see you posted in a mock draft thread. I see you're discussing the possibility of Merriweather being on the Patriots. I'm pretty amazed that you're capable of doing that kind of work without speculating. Kudos to you.

Actually, if you had actually read what I said, I was discounting a poster who was trashing Merriweather because he didn't have all the information that has been talked about. I didn't speculate one way or the other whether the Pats would take him or not. I try to refrain from the speculation on who the Pats will consider until closer to the draft.

And for your benefit, I will now perform an amazing feat. I will show you the Patriots' needs without Samuel:

#1A CB
#1 WR
#2 ILB
#3 S
#4 ILB
#5 WR
#6 RB
#7 CB
#8 OLB
#9 WR
#10 S

Maybe there's a 3rd possibility other than Samuel being off the team or on the team. Maybe it's possible that he's both off and on the team. I'll leave that up to you to consider, but I believe I covered all the bases.

Its not for my benefit because you really don't expalin anything.

Is it your contention that a rookie WR will be able to come in, learn the Pats offense, and make it so that opposing teams aren't stacking the box to stop the run? And that, by doing so, the Pats will win the SB?

And is it your contention that WR is more important than OLB, ILB or Safety?


Read it. Guess you didn't, though.

Here you go:
It's kind of interesting at this point, what the recriminations are. His lawyers are saying that Belichick and Pioli were urging him to fire his agent, which would be an unfair labor practice.

That doesn't say TEAMMATE. It says BB and Pioli. Your previous post said that an unknown teammate called Branch.

I didn't totally write them off. They are decent receivers, maybe #2s but more likely #3s. And yes, go back and have a look at the AFCCG, I guarantee you that you will see 9 men in the box on several occasions. I was actually counting them a lot of times, and it was true. And I'm not talking about short yardage situations.

I didn't say you totally wrote those two off. What I said was you weren't giving them enough credit. I also said you seemed to be writing off players on the team. One player I had in mind was Chad Jackson, who I feel will become the #1 if his hamstring is fully healthy.

I'd say Branch and Givens were much bigger threats in 2003 than our wideouts were this year. Much bigger. I agree with you about 2001, but our offense wasn't that great in 2001. In any case, respect means the safeties come off the LOS or out of the box when it's not a clear running play (ie. short yardage). Deion had that respect. Reche doesn't. It's really as simple as that.

In 2003? NO WAY. Branch and Givens didn't have respect then. Heck, it was the 1st time either of them saw any time on the field on any regular basis. Brown and Patten were the starters out of TC. Givens and Branch came in after Brown and Patten got hurt.

I have to disagree. I just look to the 2005 Miami game to see that not being the case. Miami has played Brady the same way each year. And each year, the offense has a tough time with it. And it hasn't mattered whether Charlie was the Coordinator or McDaniels.
 
Hey I have questions about Merriweather too. :) I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about the shooting incident because his actions were legal. The gun was indeed licensed, he was at his home, his friend got shot in the butt, and he returned fire. Fine.

The PROBLEM that cannot be explained away is him stomping on somebody in that melee. His actions were WRONG.

Now BB has seen tons of NFL draftees. He has seen em'all. If BB sizes him up and is willing to select him, because of Bill's history, I will give Merriweather the benefit of the doubt. :)
I serious doubt LaRon Landry or Reggie Nelson falls to the New England Patriots at #24. Artrell Hawkins and Eugene Wilson will both be unrestricted free agents in 2008 and in my honest opinion, the New England Patriots need a playmaker at free safety this year. Where the New England Patriots organization value Meriweather or Griffin is an entirely different matter.
 
I serious doubt LaRon Landry or Reggie Nelson falls to the New England Patriots at #24. Artrell Hawkins and Eugene Wilson will both be unrestricted free agents in 2008 and in my honest opinion, the New England Patriots need a playmaker at free safety this year. Where the New England Patriots organization value Meriweather or Griffin is an entirely different matter.

I doubt it Landry or Nelson fall either, but you never know, Wilfork was a top-10 pick in all the mocks.
 
I doubt it Landry or Nelson fall either, but you never know, Wilfork was a top-10 pick in all the mocks.
So was Stephen Jackson. So was Aaron Rodgers. So was Laurene Maroney. So was Ernest Shazor (ok, not a top 10, but a 1st rounder).

Talented players slide every year.
 
So was Stephen Jackson. So was Aaron Rodgers. So was Laurene Maroney. So was Ernest Shazor (ok, not a top 10, but a 1st rounder).

Talented players slide every year.

I don't think Maroney was ever a top 10, but I know Wilfork was.

Anyways, a completely different tangent here. I was hoping the Pats would address the coaching staff this offseason. BB hates to bring in newcomers and teach them the system however if I recall we had the smallest coaching staff in the NFL last year and while none may leave this offseason is only a matter of time until they do. I think it is time to start training some new blood in case McDaniels and others due get hired.
 
Actually, if you had actually read what I said, I was discounting a poster who was trashing Merriweather because he didn't have all the information that has been talked about. I didn't speculate one way or the other whether the Pats would take him or not. I try to refrain from the speculation on who the Pats will consider until closer to the draft.

Well, let's see here. You also wrote in this thread:
That being said, the best guess comes from Patscap.com courtesy of Miguel. And that best guess is this
The Pats are about 24 million under the cap with 59 players either signed or assumed tendered because of their status are either restricted free agents or exclusve rights restrited free agents.

Or
If both went unearned, then that would be a credit to this year's cap. But, as we all know, the Pats like to use NLTBE bonuses as incentives to players and many of them deal with post season play.

And
I don't deny that Merriweather was in the brawl with FIU. However, what you fail to acknowledge is that Merriweather and some team mates were the ones shot at and it was his legally licensed concealed weapon that he drew to defend himself and some teammates. The speculation is that, had he not had the gun, he and his teammates would probably have been dead.

My form of speculation has a pretty good probability to it, no? 50% Either he's on or he's not.

Is it your contention that a rookie WR will be able to come in, learn the Pats offense, and make it so that opposing teams aren't stacking the box to stop the run? And that, by doing so, the Pats will win the SB?

Did you read my posts? I said that unless we have a chance for Calvin Johnson, I'm NOT advocating we take a WR. That doesn't mean it's not our biggest need.

And is it your contention that WR is more important than OLB, ILB or Safety?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I'm more comfortable with our LBs (who I acknowledge are deficient) than I am with our WRs. In other words, I think our situation at WR is hurting our team a heck of a lot more than our situation at LB. This is why I have the middle of the defense listed as the Patriots' second most important need, if you care to notice.

That doesn't say TEAMMATE. It says BB and Pioli. Your previous post said that an unknown teammate called Branch.

It was an unnamed teammate. I know that BB called him later, but the initial report was that a third party intervened. There's a conversation about it on Patriots Planet. It's only a rumor of course. Regardless, the point I was making is that the Patriots were willing to pay Deion all his money of only he'd fire his agent. That was reported by all the Boston papers.

I didn't say you totally wrote those two off. What I said was you weren't giving them enough credit. I also said you seemed to be writing off players on the team. One player I had in mind was Chad Jackson, who I feel will become the #1 if his hamstring is fully healthy.

Hopefully he will. That would be good. Am I counting on it? No.

In 2003? NO WAY. Branch and Givens didn't have respect then. Heck, it was the 1st time either of them saw any time on the field on any regular basis. Brown and Patten were the starters out of TC. Givens and Branch came in after Brown and Patten got hurt.

Branch got a lot of playing time the year before. And as the year progressed, he was clearly the main go to guy.
 
I don't think Maroney was ever a top 10, but I know Wilfork was.

Anyways, a completely different tangent here. I was hoping the Pats would address the coaching staff this off season. BB hates to bring in newcomers and teach them the system however if I recall we had the smallest coaching staff in the NFL last year and while none may leave this off season is only a matter of time until they do. I think it is time to start training some new blood in case McDaniels and others due get hired.

There are official Coaches and unofficial ones. BB's lifelong side kick whatizname, is a Coach of a sort. OTIS was a coaching rookie so he didn't count but he was a assistant coach in fact.:D

I thought there was another coaching rookie or two wandering about too, but I'm not sure that Don Davis, and Mike Vrabel count yet. :rolleyes:

Add them to the official roster and the Coaching list isn't small. :cool:
 
:eek: If BB&SP think Merriweather is worth the try,great...I read that Bob Sanders is a fa next year:confused: I would mine with Brain Lenard...I love Corey,but he is going to retire within 1 or 2 years...LBers PLEASE!!!maybe this Jarret Johnson from Balt.....:cool3:
 
Actually, if you had actually read what I said, I was discounting a poster who was trashing Merriweather because he didn't have all the information that has been talked about. I didn't speculate one way or the other whether the Pats would take him or not. I try to refrain from the speculation on who the Pats will consider until closer to the draft.

Well, let's see here. You also wrote in this thread:

Or

And

My form of speculation has a pretty good probability to it, no? 50% Either he's on or he's not.

What is hilarious upstarter is that you didn't actually read what was said. I never said I didn't speculate. I do. We ALL speculate. However, what I DID say is that I try NOT to speculate on who the Pats will take until closer to draft time. Sorry that you don't understand the difference.

As for the Samuel issue, if he's gone, CB becomes the #2 issue behind LB and ahead of WR. If Samuel stays, then going into free agency and the draft, CB is much less of an issue.


Did you read my posts? I said that unless we have a chance for Calvin Johnson, I'm NOT advocating we take a WR. That doesn't mean it's not our biggest need.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I'm more comfortable with our LBs (who I acknowledge are deficient) than I am with our WRs. In other words, I think our situation at WR is hurting our team a heck of a lot more than our situation at LB. This is why I have the middle of the defense listed as the Patriots' second most important need, if you care to notice.

How is it that the WRs are hurting this team MORE when we score MORE this year than we did during any Charlie Weis era team other than 2004?

Once Seau went down, our defense went south in a hurry.

Sorry, but I disgreed with your assessment and claims of 9 in the box and I think you're over-reacting now as well.



It was an unnamed teammate. I know that BB called him later, but the initial report was that a third party intervened. There's a conversation about it on Patriots Planet. It's only a rumor of course. Regardless, the point I was making is that the Patriots were willing to pay Deion all his money of only he'd fire his agent. That was reported by all the Boston papers.

Really? It was reported by all the Boston Papers? Then why didn't you provide a link? The only link you provided was one that implicated BB and Pioli. Not a teammate.

I know there was much speculation on this board that one of Branch's teammates should tell him to fire his agent, but it was mainly speculation on this board.


Hopefully he will. That would be good. Am I counting on it? No.



Branch got a lot of playing time the year before. And as the year progressed, he was clearly the main go to guy.

2005 was the only year that Branch got "a lot of playing time." It was the only year he wasn't injured.

In 2003, Branch didn't start regularly until the middle of the season, but that was because Patten had gone down to injury and was out for the year.

In 2004, Branch was the defacto #1 with teams putting their #1 CB on him. But Miami was stacking the box and bringing their pass rush the way they usually do. Its why the Pats lost that Monday night debacle.
 
What is hilarious upstarter is that you didn't actually read what was said. I never said I didn't speculate. I do. We ALL speculate. However, what I DID say is that I try NOT to speculate on who the Pats will take until closer to draft time. Sorry that you don't understand the difference.

This is veering off from the original conversation. You took exception to my speculating about our needs without Samuel on the team. An either/or propisition. compared to the crap that's thrown on the wall daily on this board, that was one of the most conservative attempts at speculation, especially given the fact that it's a 50/50 proposition. Frankly, I have no idea why it bothered you that I was talking about our needs assuming Samuel was signed. I wasn't even participating in a mock draf, which, by the way, if I had, it seems to be one of the favorite pastimes around here.

As for the Samuel issue, if he's gone, CB becomes the #2 issue behind LB and ahead of WR. If Samuel stays, then going into free agency and the draft, CB is much less of an issue.

Don't you think this is ironic? I mean, how does this differ from what I was doing? This is the exact same thing. You're engaging in speculation abot the team's needs with Samuel on or off the team. I really don't understand what your point is.

How is it that the WRs are hurting this team MORE when we score MORE this year than we did during any Charlie Weis era team other than 2004?

There's a whole other thread on this. I pretty much explained it. I'm also not a stat whore. I prefer to watch the games. If we're winning 20-10, that's just fine with me. The main problem is that teams this year just didn't respect our offense, and they put their safeties up at the line, daring us to throw it on them. Brady's crappy year just seemed to coincide with the loss of our two starting receivers. Everything else was in place, RBs, FB, TEs, OL.

Sorry, but I disgreed with your assessment and claims of 9 in the box and I think you're over-reacting now as well.

It's not my assessment. It' a fact. I have the game on DVR. All but the CBs were in the box. Watch it.

Really? It was reported by all the Boston Papers? Then why didn't you provide a link? The only link you provided was one that implicated BB and Pioli. Not a teammate.

You're misunderstanding what I wrote. The bB accusation was reported in the Boston papers. The teammate thing was reported here and on Patriots Planet. I searched for the post here with a few well chosen terms, but I came back with 1000s of post. I searched at Patriots Planet and there was a thread there that mentioned exactly what I'm saying. I'm sure people around here remember well, if anyone cares to chime in.

I know there was much speculation on this board that one of Branch's teammates should tell him to fire his agent, but it was mainly speculation on this board.

It came from one of the blogs, one of the daily reporters had said it. I forget which one. Regardless, it's irrelevant sincee I was only trying to make the point that, in the end, the Patriots called Branch and agreed to pay him his money. That was m,y main point. I can really care less otherwise. Just to end this inane irrelevant argument about who telephoned who, you're right and I'm wrong (even though I'm right :D :D ).

In 2004, Branch was the defacto #1 with teams putting their #1 CB on him. But Miami was stacking the box and bringing their pass rush the way they usually do. Its why the Pats lost that Monday night debacle.

Yes, I'm sure that aggressive defense will work against us a lot of the time. But not each and every week!! The Steelers tried it and look what happened to them.
 
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