The Record Is Secondary

[Kontradiction]

You are calling the record relevant because you are projecting forward based upon it.
That isn't really the point. The point is how the team develops from here is more important. If the issues are corrected, these 3 losses don't matter much. You are counter arguing that 3 losses matter more than how they play going forward because they may play like they did in the 3 loses.
It seems you didn't understand the premise.

Actually, my post details just how much both matter. Three losses can never simply be brushed aside, especially with a schedule that gets tougher as we keep going. The way the team develops also can't be brushed aside, so you do make a point there. But the team developing still won't make those three losses "irrelevant", as you put it.

 

[Triumph]

We've been saying this for at least 3 seasons now about the defense.

At least since 2007.

Remember when Brady would leave a game but have to return because the defense would give up points like a sieve. Its like the movie Ground Hogs Day. You just sit there and watch the NE lead evaporate.

 

[dannydyn]

How many times did the Steelers cut James Harrison? What round did the Pats draft Tom Brady in? What round did the Saints draft Marcus Colston in? What was Stephen Neal's background before he became a gr8 guard for the Pats?

Using the fact that Arrington was on two team's practice squads before he came to the Pats is a ludicrous argument.

Criticize his performance if you want, it's warranted, but you need to find a better argument than how he entered the league.

You may have a point there (playing history with other teams should be ignored), but I’m sorry, I just can’t ignore the fact that he was not good enough to even stay on the practice squad of two very mediocre teams, and yet he shows up on a 3x superbowl team and makes it as a starter. And if that fact in and of itself is not amazing, I think his lousy record should speak for itself. I’m amazed that BB isn’t seeing what other inferior coaches saw immediately. Maybe it’s BB’s inability to admit he made a bad choice in picking this clown.

 

[BlueThunder]

Everyone has seen how inept the Jets are.

If the Pats can't easily win this game and the Defense doesn't prevent Sanchez/Tebow from looking like Montana/Elway , I will be very concerned that they didn't learn ANYTHING in their 3 losses.

The Pats Offense should be able to run on the Jets and Brady should be able to utilize Gronk,Ahern and Wes to score almost at will.

If Brady or the coaches have brain freezes in critical spots again, it will be an indication of a systemic problem, not just a hiccup.

5-3 going into the bye week will give them something to build on. Miami isn't going to be a pushover. They have to win the Divisional games to guarantee a shot at the playoffs. As this team is now, I can't see them going deep into the playoffs unless Brady & Co can score a ton of points. Pats had an 8 min advantage in TOP vs Seattle so the Pats Defense shouldn't have been gassed.
Long pass completions did them in bigtime. I just hope the DB's are PRACTICING against those long bombs because you KNOW Sanchez is going to be tossing alot of them in this coming week's game. :rocker:

 

[Brock Samson]

"You are what your record says you are."

 

[Teapot]

do you realize than without a good record you cant make the playoffs right?

 

[Kontradiction]

At least since 2007.

Remember when Brady would leave a game but have to return because the defense would give up points like a sieve. Its like the movie Ground Hogs Day. You just sit there and watch the NE lead evaporate.

The 2007 defense, while older than dirt, was 10 times better than what we have here now. So was the 2008 defense.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, my post details just how much both matter. Three losses can never simply be brushed aside, especially with a schedule that gets tougher as we keep going. The way the team develops also can't be brushed aside, so you do make a point there. But the team developing still won't make those three losses "irrelevant", as you put it.

3-3 leading to 11-5 with the problems fixed is better than 5-1 leading to 13-3 without the problems fixed.
These losses will not matter if the team corrects its problems and goes into the playoffs at its capacity. Being 6-0 right now wouldn't matter if the problems don't get corrected and we go into the playoffs playing like we are now. 3 plays going a different way make us 6-0, but don't make us a different team.

 

[Ring 6]

do you realize than without a good record you cant make the playoffs right?

I see no reason to be concerned about winning the division, but if we aren't good enough to win this division, it wouldn't matter if we were 6-0 or 0-6 right now.

 

[Ring 6]

"You are what your record says you are."

Tell that to the 07 and 11 Giants and the 10 Packers.

 

[PatsFan2]

One good thing in all this is that as of now we only have one AFC Loss if we could some how *not impossible* win out the rest of our AFC games we might be in business for a Bye. Alot of our rivals are contending with injuries.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I think Andy is winning the arguments .

The reality is the team does have issues even if they won games they lost. But, there is time and I expect there's plenty of character on this team that they'll dig in and fight their way back to excellence.

Nobody is happy with the losses, but if we improve and take care of the division, we still have a great chance to go far in the playoffs. There's not a team in the AFC they can't compete with home or away.

 

[reflexblue]

Getting a bye and HFA for the playoffs is an important goal, but for the 2012 Patriots I think that growth and development mean more. 3 losses in the books are already a strike against the shot at a bye and 2 against a #1 seed and HFA.

But the level of talent on this team is sufficient to beat anyone anywhere, but this team needs to develop. The issues are clear, they just must be corrected.

For some reason offensively with a lead, we cannot decide whether we want to go for the throat, or milk the clock, and we have consistently ended up handling this by trying to do both. While I'm not jumping on the negativity train, and pretending it always happens (because we have protected a whole lot of leads) it does happen more than it should.

Defensively, this team is not going to be what it is now in December. Let's hope that means it is better then. History is on it's side in that way.

Up front, it seems like a step in the right direction happened by accident moving Ninkovich out of the LDE spot and to an OLB position, and playing Cunningham full time. Cunningham is a more gifted and disruptive player. Other than Cunningham sliding inside in sub, we simply have to figure out how to get any type of inside rush. The scheme may need to develop in this case, and add in more blitizing.

Jones, Hightower, Cunningham, Spikes and some lesser contributors should continue to get more comfortable in the system and their evolving roles.

In the secondary, I am hopeful that yesterday was the end of the Arrington era. I am fine with Dennard taking over, and it seems like a Hobbs kind of rookie emergence about to happen. I would prefer that Dowling takes that job, and hope that he is still getting back to 100% and will increase his health and role as the season wears on. Its possible he won't do more than he already is as well.

I am not ready to kill the safety position just yet, because there is hope of improvement. Wilson has had his ups and downs, but certainly looks capable as he develops. Gregory is not a nightmare, but is limited. Chung still seems tentative in zone coverage. That is the maddening part. This D priorotizes not giving up the big play, and then we have games like yesterday. There is no way that happens in Decemeber or January. The problem is though, that to stop that from happening, we leave the short and intermediate stuff in the middle of the field open.

I really think a key to this defense is the LBs as well as the nickel and dime backs.

The LBs have to start becoming effective in the passing game. Whether it is blitzing the speed up the play, or playing better in coverage so the safeties are in a kill me with the big play or bleed me to death with papercuts dilemma.

I think the pass defense has been better in many ways this year. A lot of the completions being allowed are much more contested than they were a year ago, but its still not good enough. What happened yesterday is just inexcusable though. But I'm pretty sure that will get corrected, based on 11 years of seeing how corrections get made around here.

This season is about fixing these issues. The team that played the first 6 games won't get it done in the post-season, but the team it has potential to grow into by January could be as good as ones that have won rings here.

This season, like quite a few others is going to come down to getting the job done in 2 minute defense, when the other team must throw. I don't doubt that failure in these situations now can create success in them later, by changing players and scheme.

I think the loss of Hightower for the last few games has been a factor. Once he gets more comfortable in his role he can be used in a variety of ways including rushing the passer.

 

[Kontradiction]

3-3 leading to 11-5 with the problems fixed is better than 5-1 leading to 13-3 without the problems fixed.
These losses will not matter if the team corrects its problems and goes into the playoffs at its capacity. Being 6-0 right now wouldn't matter if the problems don't get corrected and we go into the playoffs playing like we are now. 3 plays going a different way make us 6-0, but don't make us a different team.

Correcting the issues that can be corrected (I just don't see the secondary as being correctable, but instead hide-able) are obviously important. So that's a no-brainer. But the three losses are not irrelevant, in spite of your insistance that they are. Every loss matters in this league matters. FWIW, Brady just echoed my sentiments in his interview with Jim Gray.

 

[reflexblue]

How the **** did Arington become a starting CB in the NFL? Christ BB what were you thinking.

Because two years ago he made a number of key int's and plays, then he got a contract extension at the end of the year. But alas a one year wonder.

 

[JohninLynn]

Any Q.B even four feet high
Can beat the Pats by letting it fly
Because if he chucks ducks
As hard as our D sucks
He’ll get forty yards on a P I!

 

[IllegalContact]

I think the loss of Hightower for the last few games has been a factor. Once he gets more comfortable in his role he can be used in a variety of ways including rushing the passer.

the loss of hightower is not related to how the pats lost to the seahawks

 

[Brock Samson]

Tell that to the 07 and 11 Giants and the 10 Packers.

Why bother? You don't need to tell them anything because those teams are exactly what their records say they are.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

What is most frustrating to me is that the breakdowns are happening on both sides of the ball at the most critical points in games.

The offense seems to almost move the ball at will most of the game and then craps the bed in those must have situations at the end. A gazillion first downs all game long then can't seem to buy a first down to close out a game.

On defense, yeah, there are way to many big pass plays against us during games but it seems like overall the defense is keeping opponents in check most of the game points wise. Then in those 4th quarter, end of game situations where we absolutely need a stop we consistently crap the bed and give up the critical score.

Seems like if either unit can just improve a little bit in these end game situations we'll start winning the games we're losing now (including last year's SB). I think we're oh so close now (as evidenced by how close these losses have been), and we're doing it with a bunch of rookies starting on defense. Hopefully by December we'll be making some of the plays in crunch time we're not making right now... on both sides of the ball.

 

[goheels22002]

The coaches didnt intentionally ground.
The coaches didn't block poorly.
The coaches didn't not cover WRs deep.
The coaches didn't fail to rush the passer.
The coaches weren't Kyle Arrington.
The coaches didn't allow the Seahawks to drive the length of the field their last 2 possessions.
Which players do you feel played so great that the coaches screwed them over and cost them the game?
The players played like a team that deserved to lose by a point and the coaches coached like a team that deserved to lose by a point.

There's plenty of blame to go around, so I am not disagreeing with pinning responsibility on the players for failing to execute. However,...

The coaches did call for a play to be run with 6 seconds left in the half rather than kick the field goal to make it 20-10. That one field goal would have been decisive.

The coaches did decide to put a base defense on the field to protect against the run on the 46-yard TD that won the game rather than call for a blitz to pressure the rookie QB, or to put a nickel or dime package on the field to keep the receivers in front of the last line of defense.

The coaches did call for a pass play from an empty backfield on third and one in the penultimate drive rather run the ball again and force a last time out, and or more time to run off the clock. At least run the pass play out of play action to provide the option to run if Brady saw a favorable matchup.

This chronic problem of a sub-par secondary is very much a coaching responsibility.

Has anyone around this message board wrote: In Josh Boyer or Brian Flores we trust?

It is not unusual for someone to write about Dante Scarnecchia and offensive line adjusting, adapting and improving. It is not unusual to comment on how the linebackers grow and develop as players, and as leaders, under Pepper Johnson. We gush about Josh McDaniels and his ability to put together a game plan that attacks the opponent's weaknesses.

How come those coaches are accountable and the two neophytes responsible for the secondary are not?

To your point, "The coaches weren't Kyle Arrington." Maybe he should be the coach. He has more experience in a defensive secondary than either Boyer or Flores. It's just disconcerting to have guys with their backgrounds managing the greatest vulnerability on the team.