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The Record Is Secondary

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Oct 15, 2012.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Getting a bye and HFA for the playoffs is an important goal, but for the 2012 Patriots I think that growth and development mean more. 3 losses in the books are already a strike against the shot at a bye and 2 against a #1 seed and HFA.

    But the level of talent on this team is sufficient to beat anyone anywhere, but this team needs to develop. The issues are clear, they just must be corrected.

    For some reason offensively with a lead, we cannot decide whether we want to go for the throat, or milk the clock, and we have consistently ended up handling this by trying to do both. While I'm not jumping on the negativity train, and pretending it always happens (because we have protected a whole lot of leads) it does happen more than it should.

    Defensively, this team is not going to be what it is now in December. Let's hope that means it is better then. History is on it's side in that way.

    Up front, it seems like a step in the right direction happened by accident moving Ninkovich out of the LDE spot and to an OLB position, and playing Cunningham full time. Cunningham is a more gifted and disruptive player. Other than Cunningham sliding inside in sub, we simply have to figure out how to get any type of inside rush. The scheme may need to develop in this case, and add in more blitizing.

    Jones, Hightower, Cunningham, Spikes and some lesser contributors should continue to get more comfortable in the system and their evolving roles.

    In the secondary, I am hopeful that yesterday was the end of the Arrington era. I am fine with Dennard taking over, and it seems like a Hobbs kind of rookie emergence about to happen. I would prefer that Dowling takes that job, and hope that he is still getting back to 100% and will increase his health and role as the season wears on. Its possible he won't do more than he already is as well.

    I am not ready to kill the safety position just yet, because there is hope of improvement. Wilson has had his ups and downs, but certainly looks capable as he develops. Gregory is not a nightmare, but is limited. Chung still seems tentative in zone coverage. That is the maddening part. This D priorotizes not giving up the big play, and then we have games like yesterday. There is no way that happens in Decemeber or January. The problem is though, that to stop that from happening, we leave the short and intermediate stuff in the middle of the field open.

    I really think a key to this defense is the LBs as well as the nickel and dime backs.

    The LBs have to start becoming effective in the passing game. Whether it is blitzing the speed up the play, or playing better in coverage so the safeties are in a kill me with the big play or bleed me to death with papercuts dilemma.

    I think the pass defense has been better in many ways this year. A lot of the completions being allowed are much more contested than they were a year ago, but its still not good enough. What happened yesterday is just inexcusable though. But I'm pretty sure that will get corrected, based on 11 years of seeing how corrections get made around here.

    This season is about fixing these issues. The team that played the first 6 games won't get it done in the post-season, but the team it has potential to grow into by January could be as good as ones that have won rings here.

    This season, like quite a few others is going to come down to getting the job done in 2 minute defense, when the other team must throw. I don't doubt that failure in these situations now can create success in them later, by changing players and scheme.
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  2. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Certainly a very valid, fair, and extremely important point.
  3. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Rookie

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    How the **** did Arington become a starting CB in the NFL? Christ BB what were you thinking.
  4. PATS16N0

    PATS16N0 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    There's a lot that can improve as there always is but the game against Seattle is the first game i can remember where I feel I can fairly lay the loss completely at the feet of the coaches and not so much the players on the field.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Arrington got to be a starter because he has played on a team with a secondary so bad that he was better than all but one of his competitors.

  6. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The coaches didnt intentionally ground.
    The coaches didn't block poorly.
    The coaches didn't not cover WRs deep.
    The coaches didn't fail to rush the passer.
    The coaches weren't Kyle Arrington.
    The coaches didn't allow the Seahawks to drive the length of the field their last 2 possessions.
    Which players do you feel played so great that the coaches screwed them over and cost them the game?
    The players played like a team that deserved to lose by a point and the coaches coached like a team that deserved to lose by a point.
  7. Haley

    Haley Rookie

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    I guess he must not have looked so bad on that team he was on last year. I can't remember exactly but I think they might have done pretty well too.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  8. BradyToAmendola

    BradyToAmendola Rookie

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    More important than record is that we get this fixed:

    - We've given up 15 passing TDs, tied for the most in the NFL

    - Opposing QBs on average post a 100.9 passer rating against us, which is 27th in the NFL

    If we can improve our pass defense somehow between now and Week 17 then that means we will have success in the postseason. If not, we are another Wildcard or Divisional round KO.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually Arrington took the job away from Butler and wasn't awful at first, and injuries helped him stay out there.
    The real issue is that they didn't replace him. They added Mccourty, and then Dowling, but he hasn't worked out yet. A healthy Arrington is better than a lame Dowling (lets hope not better than a healthy Dowling).
    It seems a still learning Dennard is better than an expericenced Arrington, at least lets hope so.
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't care about the stats. It may be unrealistic with our offense to expect good pass D stats.
    I care about what the defense does in a situation where the offense is in a pass only, 4 down situation, and we need to end the game.
    It is silly to say we have sucked at that, because we have succeeded many, many times, but it is by far the one aspect of the game that is central to most of our losses.
    In 2012 with the rules as they are, the odds are heavily stacked against the defense in that situation. How many games have you seen this year where one team scores to take a lead with 1 minute or less remaining, and the other team drives to FG range in that minute? (I think we would have if we had kept at least 1 TO yesterday too). But this is something the Patriots need to address, because there is simply nothing else standing between them and a SB trophy, IMO, and it has already solely stood between them and 3 others.
  11. DarrylS

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    There is only one stat that matters...
  12. dannydyn

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    #12 Jersey

    Kyle Arrington

    Source: Wiki

    A clown who wasn't good enough for the Eagles and Bucs' practice squads, and a starter for the Bucs for ONE FREAKING DAY, is somehow a starter in NE.... go figure... :rolleyes:
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wouldn't be as quick to push the record aside. One loss, I can forgive. That's the loss against the Ravens. The secondary was going up against an offense with a competent quarterback and good skill position players. On top of that, the scrubs weren't helping matters any, either. The Cardinals loss was doomed due to turnovers and poor play of the offense. The defense didn't play that badly. The Seahawks loss was especially troubling on the defensive side of the ball. In two losses, this team has shown (so far) that it's having trouble competing with teams that carry good defenses. This loss saw an offense that was previously bad look good and take advantage of the mismatches they had against our secondary to get back into, and eventually win, the game. Currently we're 3-3 and are only still in it due to just how bad our division is. We'll rebound. I expect the team to win two straight going into the bye. But the concern is still there.

    Arrington needs to go first and foremost. I would not mind seeing him replaced with Dennard because, honestly, I don't see how it could get much worse. Ideally, Arrington is someone you want on the bench as a back-up and for what he was brought in here to do: special teams ace. At the very least, he should be in the slot, but he'd still be an issue there as well. Dennard taking over on the outside and Dowling manning the slot would be ideal. But, even if this "ideal" situation were to happen, the safeties are STILL a concern. Chung just hasn't become the coverage safety we've all hoped for. He's certainly good in the box, but in coverage he's a liability. Wilson is a rookie and it was obvious a couple of times on Sunday that he's still learning. Gregory, IMO, is not the answer. Safety will still be a need going into the offseason. The best way to fix or mask the secondary, at least in my opinion, is for the front seven to become dominant as they did in the 2011 postseason. Our interior DL needs to clog up those gaps, Jones and Ninkovich need to to a better job against the run, someone besides Jones needs to consistently get pressure on the quarterback, and the LB's need to be dominant in coverage over the middle. The secondary can't be fixed, so it has to be masked as much as possible. It would also be nice if ANYONE can push Ninkovich for playing time.

    In the end, this offense should be able to score on anyone. But, they're going to get slowed down from time to time just as they were this last Sunday. That's when we're really going to need the defense to step up.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  14. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    It speaks volumes to the team's failures to cultivate talent coming out of the draft back there.
  15. Triumph

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    NE is on pace to break a passing TD record that was set in 1969 at this pace.These stats matter because this is how NE is getting beat. Dennard and Dowling have to come through.

    Its like last season when the Homers kept saying passing yards dont matter. Well, that was a line of BS too because it kept the NE defense on the field and Brady on the sideline.
  16. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We've been saying this for at least 3 seasons now about the defense.
  17. dannydyn

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    I really hope that come next draft, BB spends AT LEAST 2 HIGH picks on CBs! :mad:
  18. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    How many times did the Steelers cut James Harrison? What round did the Pats draft Tom Brady in? What round did the Saints draft Marcus Colston in? What was Stephen Neal's background before he became a gr8 guard for the Pats?

    Using the fact that Arrington was on two team's practice squads before he came to the Pats is a ludicrous argument.

    Criticize his performance if you want, it's warranted, but you need to find a better argument than how he entered the league.
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They went 13-3 and all the way to the SB, which they win if Welker holds the ball. Those 'homers' were right.
  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are calling the record relevant because you are projecting forward based upon it.
    That isn't really the point. The point is how the team develops from here is more important. If the issues are corrected, these 3 losses don't matter much. You are counter arguing that 3 losses matter more than how they play going forward because they may play like they did in the 3 loses.
    It seems you didn't understand the premise.
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