Why have none of our ex-coaches come back?

[RobertWeathers]

I think a big part of it is that BB believes in hiring coaches that

A) Are hungry and willing to invest their entire lives into their job.
B) Are thirsty for advancement as opposed to money.

 

[signbabybrady]

Sure he did. A deal was in place for him to succeed Parcells in New Jersey, which he broke to come here. BB either was biding his time for the best situation to come along, or no one else wanting him as head coach between 1996 and 2000. (I don't know if he interviewed for HC elsewhere during that span.) His official title under Parcells from '96 to '99 was assistant head coach/secondary coach.

He talked about interviewing for the Raiders job with the media around the time Al Davis passed away. I was under the impression he was talking about the vacancy that was eventually filled by Gruden.


As to the OPs question I think BB being a long time assistant who worked his way up from the bottom has respect for the process and would prefer to promote (however gradual the promotions may be as in unnamed for year or two) from with in when vacancies are there rather than stunting these guys by bringing others back.

You could argue that this leaves us with wet behind the ears assistants but it should also create a situation where the best young untried coaches want to come here as they know they can grow without worrying about who will be brought in for positions they hoped to fill.

 

[patfanken]

I think this is a very interesting question, and it goes beyond the guys you mentioned. Rob Ryan and Brian Diabol are 2 other guys who come immediately to mind. I'm sure there are a few more. I think there are a couple of logical reasons that would explain the phenomenon.

1. The omnipresent presence of Bill Bellichick. Just as BB had to eventually get out of Parcell's large shadow, ambitious assistants will always feel the need to leave the nest in order to evade this shadow, and when they move on from that job, you don't want to go back.

2, Part of the the "Patriot Way" is how they develop their staff. Almost all of their post 2004 coaching hires have followed a pretty standard path. Very young guys who go from gofers, to quality control (breaking down films) to position coaches, to coordinators. One of Bills greatest skills is the he is a great teacher of coaches and like a lot of corporate management teams they like to get them when they are young and develop them in the "corporate" philosophy.

That's the reason I think things didn't work out with Don Capers. Clearly Capers is a great coach, but I'd bet his defensive philosophy ran counter to Bill's and they agreed to disagree. When you bring in older coaches you bring in their "baggage" as well

The exceptions are Ivan Fears, Pepper Johnson, and Dante Scarnecchia these guys are career assistants and Patriot lifers, who have totally bought into the program and aren't going anywhere. Maybe Pepper would leave for a DC gig, but that's unlikely soon

3. The only guy I thought that BB might bring back was Romeo. He didn't for 2 reasons I think. First, bringing him back would ****** the movement of those still here. Second, I think Romeo still has hopes of being an NFL HC again and that won't happen if he comes back.

 

[Brarrell]

I think this is a very interesting question, and it goes beyond the guys you mentioned. Rob Ryan and Brian Diabol are 2 other guys who come immediately to mind. I'm sure there are a few more. I think there are a couple of logical reasons that would explain the phenomenon.

1. The omnipresent presence of Bill Bellichick. Just as BB had to eventually get out of Parcell's large shadow, ambitious assistants will always feel the need to leave the nest in order to evade this shadow, and when they move on from that job, you don't want to go back.

2, Part of the the "Patriot Way" is how they develop their staff. Almost all of their post 2004 coaching hires have followed a pretty standard path. Very young guys who go from gofers, to quality control (breaking down films) to position coaches, to coordinators. One of Bills greatest skills is the he is a great teacher of coaches and like a lot of corporate management teams they like to get them when they are young and develop them in the "corporate" philosophy.

That's the reason I think things didn't work out with Don Capers. Clearly Capers is a great coach, but I'd bet his defensive philosophy ran counter to Bill's and they agreed to disagree. When you bring in older coaches you bring in their "baggage" as well

The exceptions are Ivan Fears, Pepper Johnson, and Dante Scarnecchia these guys are career assistants and Patriot lifers, who have totally bought into the program and aren't going anywhere. Maybe Pepper would leave for a DC gig, but that's unlikely soon

3. The only guy I thought that BB might bring back was Romeo. He didn't for 2 reasons I think. First, bringing him back would ****** the movement of those still here. Second, I think Romeo still has hopes of being an NFL HC again and that won't happen if he comes back.

I suspect if you take BB out of the picture it's one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league, which is why you never ever hear about a coach coming back here.

 

[Tunescribe]

I think this is a very interesting question, and it goes beyond the guys you mentioned. Rob Ryan and Brian Diabol are 2 other guys who come immediately to mind. I'm sure there are a few more. I think there are a couple of logical reasons that would explain the phenomenon.

1. The omnipresent presence of Bill Bellichick. Just as BB had to eventually get out of Parcell's large shadow, ambitious assistants will always feel the need to leave the nest in order to evade this shadow, and when they move on from that job, you don't want to go back.

2, Part of the the "Patriot Way" is how they develop their staff. Almost all of their post 2004 coaching hires have followed a pretty standard path. Very young guys who go from gofers, to quality control (breaking down films) to position coaches, to coordinators. One of Bills greatest skills is the he is a great teacher of coaches and like a lot of corporate management teams they like to get them when they are young and develop them in the "corporate" philosophy.

That's the reason I think things didn't work out with Don Capers. Clearly Capers is a great coach, but I'd bet his defensive philosophy ran counter to Bill's and they agreed to disagree. When you bring in older coaches you bring in their "baggage" as well

The exceptions are Ivan Fears, Pepper Johnson, and Dante Scarnecchia these guys are career assistants and Patriot lifers, who have totally bought into the program and aren't going anywhere. Maybe Pepper would leave for a DC gig, but that's unlikely soon

3. The only guy I thought that BB might bring back was Romeo. He didn't for 2 reasons I think. First, bringing him back would ****** the movement of those still here. Second, I think Romeo still has hopes of being an NFL HC again and that won't happen if he comes back.

I think Romeo would be smart to give up the head coaching ambition and settle into a DC role a la **** LeBeau. He's not HC material, plus he's 64 years old.

 

[Jack Handy]

I only started following the Pats after Mangini left. Was there more to what he did besides going to the Jets and videogate?

 

[Fencer]

Not true. I believe I read a couple of years ago that BB was one of the highest paid coaches in the league.

I considered phrasing that as "assistant coaching", but didn't think I needed to be that picky. My bad.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Its something I've been wondering for the past few years. For example:

1. Charlie Weiss leaves for HC job, gets fired and goes to our competition as OC.

2. Romeo leaves for HC job, gets fired and goes to our competitor as DC.

3. Josh leaves for HC job, gets fired and goes to our competitor as OC.

Thats just off the top of my head, maybe there are others. But I don't get it, why wouldn't they want to come back here? They had their best years here considering they got their "promotion" because of what they accomplished here.

I would think BB knows how good they were here and would let them back in a heartbeat even at the expense of letting go our current OC/DC.

Is it Pride? They don't want to be in BB's shadow?

I just remember that one SB where BB/Charlie/Romeo were huddled in a group knowing it was their last game together and just wishing each other good fortune. I would think either or both would want to come back to the "good old days".

For the 'holier than thou' posters, this is where you say I'm stupid and don't know a thing about football.

I totally agree you.

The reason is simple - "money, money, money, money......MONEY"....
The Patriots are a CHEAP organization. Why bring the old and proven guys back when you can hire nobody's and pay them below market wage??

 

[rainmaker]

The good thing you can take away from the lack of assistant coaches hungry for HC jobs coming back to NE is that Belichick isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Because they don't prove anything to anyone by coming back. Everyone already knows that they can succeed working for Belichick; that's why they got their head coaching opportunities in the first place.

 

[jmt57]

I only started following the Pats after Mangini left. Was there more to what he did besides going to the Jets and videogate?

The root of the feud came prior to the video taping incident. Many believe it is because Mangini defied Belichick's advice and took a job with a division rival, but what the true catalyst was that Mangini attempted to recruit Patriot players and coaches to go with him - as early as on the flight home after the Patriots AFCCG loss; some speculate he was even recruiting prior to that game. On top of that Mangini reportedly did not turn in his team-issued laptop - which included the entire playbook and all of the team's previous game plans.

In my opinion this was, to Belichick (as well as to fans of the Pats) unforgivable; an employee is given a job, built up, and then stabs his mentor and his former team in the back on the way out the door.

Little did we all know at that time that those actions would merely be the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Deus Irae]

30 posts and nobody seized the opportunity?

They hate their coach!

 

[jmt57]

The reason is simple - "money, money, money, money......MONEY"....
The Patriots are a CHEAP organization. Why bring the old and proven guys back when you can hire nobody's and pay them below market wage??

Dude, you are way off base.

There are dozens of organizations that spend far less overall than the Patriots do in an attempt to maximize profits.

The whole "Patriots are cheap" is an internet myth with no substance created long ago by fans of rival teams, as well as Pats fans that never understood the difference between the way baseball and football teams operate. Sales people must love you because you have obviously bought into that hype hook, line and sinker.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Maybe for one of these two reasons?

Belichick sucks all the oxygen out of the room, so any Coordinator who tried and didn't make it as an HC elsewhere would risk being labelled as "successful only if Belichick is calling the important shots," if he returned.

Also, Belichick probably doesn't want Coordinators whom he thinks would just be auditioning again for an HC job someplace else. I get the impression that Romeo, Charlie and Josh all left with his blessing, but I doubt he'd take them back just to have them jump again in a couple of years. The Rat is another case, since he left for a team in the Division, a major no-no.

 

[strngplyr]

Dude, you are way off base.

There are dozens of organizations that spend far less overall than the Patriots do in an attempt to maximize profits.

The whole "Patriots are cheap" is an internet myth with no substance created long ago by fans of rival teams, as well as Pats fans that never understood the difference between the way baseball and football teams operate. Sales people must love you because you have obviously bought into that hype hook, line and sinker.

Yeah, how many teams were something like $60m under the cap earlier this year while we were restructuring to make room?

Highest paid QB, highest paid NT, highest paid coach, very highly paid LG.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

They don't want to get yelled at by Brady.

 

[Brarrell]

Dude, you are way off base.

There are dozens of organizations that spend far less overall than the Patriots do in an attempt to maximize profits.

The whole "Patriots are cheap" is an internet myth with no substance created long ago by fans of rival teams, as well as Pats fans that never understood the difference between the way baseball and football teams operate. Sales people must love you because you have obviously bought into that hype hook, line and sinker.

Really why don't you name them the fact is we have guys that should be coaching Curry college not a 1.5 billion dollar business, and I'm not sure cheap is the word but BB is suppose to be this great defensive genius right! So either he doesn't know talent anymore or the value word which is just another word for not paying people fair market value has taken over that franchise. What do you have to show for it the worst defense in the league, wide recievers playing cornerback, Oh this shows versatility please! The fact is they cut Sanders, Merriweather, Butler, Wilhite and even Wheatley for what they have now are you kidding me? So why were they cut IMO money now your paying street free agents they probably saved themselves 7 mil under the cap which goes back to the owners at the end of the year, either that or BB has become the worst talent evaluator of defensive players in the league.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Really why don't you name them the fact is we have guys that should be coaching Curry college not a 1.5 billion dollar business, and I'm not sure cheap is the word but BB is suppose to be this great defensive genius right! So either he doesn't know talent anymore or the value word which is just another word for not paying people fair market value has taken over that franchise. What do you have to show for it the worst defense in the league, wide recievers playing cornerback, Oh this shows versatility please! The fact is they cut Sanders, Merriweather, Butler, Wilhite and even Wheatley for what they have now are you kidding me? So why were they cut IMO money now your paying street free agents they probably saved themselves 7 mil under the cap which goes back to the owners at the end of the year, either that or BB has become the worst talent evaluator of defensive players in the league.

Hes got this team at 10-3 with a rag tag group on defense, was it his doing?, well, yeah but thats another discussion.

 

[GrogansArmy]

Really why don't you name them the fact is we have guys that should be coaching Curry college not a 1.5 billion dollar business, and I'm not sure cheap is the word but BB is suppose to be this great defensive genius right! So either he doesn't know talent anymore or the value word which is just another word for not paying people fair market value has taken over that franchise. What do you have to show for it the worst defense in the league, wide recievers playing cornerback, Oh this shows versatility please! The fact is they cut Sanders, Merriweather, Butler, Wilhite and even Wheatley for what they have now are you kidding me? So why were they cut IMO money now your paying street free agents they probably saved themselves 7 mil under the cap which goes back to the owners at the end of the year, either that or BB has become the worst talent evaluator of defensive players in the league.

Holy crap, I'm not usually one to knock a person's grammar, but I had to re-read that like 4 times to get the jist of your message. Tip: question marks and periods are your friends.

As to your point, I actually agree: BB got rid of those players to get 'value' players. But remember that with latest contract agreement, teams will have to spend almost all of the salary cap. As for assistant coaches, I'm not too sure the team was "cheap" on them. I have no proof as I don't know their market value as to what they actually got paid, but I'm guessing money didn't have much to do with it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The root of the feud came prior to the video taping incident. Many believe it is because Mangini defied Belichick's advice and took a job with a division rival, but what the true catalyst was that Mangini attempted to recruit Patriot players and coaches to go with him - as early as on the flight home after the Patriots AFCCG loss; some speculate he was even recruiting prior to that game. On top of that Mangini reportedly did not turn in his team-issued laptop - which included the entire playbook and all of the team's previous game plans.

In my opinion this was, to Belichick (as well as to fans of the Pats) unforgivable; an employee is given a job, built up, and then stabs his mentor and his former team in the back on the way out the door.

Little did we all know at that time that those actions would merely be the tip of the iceberg.

Taking the JETS job was kind of the last straw. Mangini was impatient and egotistical and BB didn't feel he was ready nor did he feel he'd paid his dues after one season as a DC on a team that had just won 3 rings. He'd even taken the red sweatshirt away from him midway through that one season. According to Holley they were like brothers in many respects who could fight like teenage girls over concepts and ideas yet by the move on and get back to work. But Bill had the final say and Mangini suffered from smartest guy in the room syndrome. Bill knew that and was waiting for him to grow up and get over himself. Some of the veteran players here weren't fond of his style despite some obvious x's and o's accumen. But then Tannenbaum talked him up to Woody as part of his own powerplay and he got the job offer that validated his ego. It went downhill as you described from there. It wasn't that the JETS were division rivals that bothered Bill. It was that he warned Eric from experience that the organization was sleezy and poorly run and a dead end job with the potential to derail coaching careers - and Eric ignored the advice preferring to believe Bill was just unwilling to give him credit for being ready to be a HC. Turned out Bill was right. The JETS used the information they were able to gleen from Eric to try and end Bill's career. And shortly thereafter they were done with Eric.

I was watching Eric on ESPN the other day and I get the sense he may finally have figured it all out and outgrown the ego. Too bad he was one of those guys who had to be hit over the head with a 2 x 4, repeatedly, before he realized how little he truly knew and how foolishly he behaved when he had the best coach in a generation as his personal mentor from the time entered the league as a ballboy...

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pioli bring him in along with Josh or Brian Daboll, but only as coordinators in waiting competing for a shot at that HC gig with RAC at the helm for the next couple of seasons.