Revisiting Seymour trade

[MoLewisrocks]

I laugh at the they can't afford it argument. You're searching to justify every Patriot move. How bout this. They can afford him the same way Pittsburgh affords - Ben, Woodley, Farrior, Ward, Harrison, Hampton, Ike Taylor Jets afford - Sanchez, Mangold, Harris, Scott, Pace, Holmes, Revis Philly affords - Ndami, Samuel, Vick, Babin, Jenkins, Jackson That's how. The cap hasn't been a factor in 7 years. And its going up with the new contracts in 2012. They blew it on Seymour. Just accept it. Its not even an argument anymore. The Patriots are paying 3 people big money. Brady, Vince and Mankins. They are 10 million under the cap. And they are ONE, ONE player who can rush the QB from a Super Bowl. It should have everyone on this board enraged.

Have you watched any Steelers games this season, let me introduce you to their OL... Watched any JETS or Dream Team games, apparently not.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Was it 2005 when Seymour made the Pro Bowl and many of us were wondering how the hell he made it when it was not even close to a good year?.

I think lately Seymour has made it by name and his past reputation these days....he is above average but not Elite IMO.

 

[Darolyn72]

Hey Mo. Who played in the AFC Championship last year? When did the Patriots last play in the AFC Championship? So you're going off 3 games instead of 5 years? Please explain me how the trade helped. Since he left they haven't got out of the first round and they haven't had a pass rush in 3 years. Scheme. Scheme. It must be the Scheme.

 

[jsull87]

Lousy trade then

Lousy trade now

The excuses by those trying to defend it have never held up, and they still don't


Not much more to say on the subject, really

Just a couple of questions on your position.

Do you think Seymour would have resigned?

If we would have kept him, do you think we'd still have vince wilfork on the team?

Do you think if we weren't going to sign him the year he got traded and he walked that we would have won a superbowl that year with him?

Lastly do you think people on this board... if he walked after his contract was up and we don't resign him would have been yelling "why didn't BB trade him for some value"?

I am still 50/50 on the trade because i think when you have such a dominant DLineman you just don't trade them away willy nilly. But i also am of the opinion we wouldn't have won a superbowl that year with him and wouldn't have been able to resign him and Big Vince and a 1st rounder (Solder) is pretty good compensation.

I believe there are legitimately 2 equal sides to this story not just a cut and dry... "Seymour is on pace for 17 sacks".

 

[jsull87]

Hey Mo. Who played in the AFC Championship last year? When did the Patriots last play in the AFC Championship? So you're going off 3 games instead of 5 years? Please explain me how the trade helped. Since he left they haven't got out of the first round and they haven't had a pass rush in 3 years. Scheme. Scheme. It must be the Scheme.

We haven't won a playoff game since we let Adalius Thomas go... BB what are you doing i can't believe you let Asante Samuel go if we had him our secondary would be so sweet.

These like the Draft Clay Mathews threads get old very quickly.

the adalius refrence was thrown in there for the fun of it because we haven't won a playoff game with him not in the team... but we almost went perfect with him on the team... sign him quick, thats the missing link

 

[jbb9s]

For $15M a year, they can have him all they want. Be glad the pats got a first round pick out of it as opposed to a 3rd round comp pick.

Big Sey was traded by New England in the first week of the season in 2009.

They played the 2009 schedule and the 2010 schedule without compensation.

They just used the pick this year (2011).

In most books, you discount picks 1 round per year for time value of player adjustment. Therefore, they did trade him for a third rounder.

to clarify: if BB traded him a few months early in April 2009 for a pick in that month's draft, then he would have gotten a first round player in exchange. An April 2010 pick is = 2 round. The actual trade 2011 = 3 round

 

[Sciz]

Big Sey was traded by New England in the first week of the season in 2009.

They played the 2009 schedule and the 2010 schedule without compensation.

They just used the pick this year (2011).

In most books, you discount picks 1 round per year for time value of player adjustment. Therefore, they did trade him for a third rounder.

to clarify: if BB traded him a few months early in April 2009 for a pick in that month's draft, then he would have gotten a first round player in exchange. An April 2010 pick is = 2 round. The actual trade 2011 = 3 round

The comp pick they would've gotten would've been in 2011 too. He would've been a free agent after the 2009 season, so in 2010. The comp pick comes a year after he's a free agent, so 2011.

 

[WhiZa]

This is the worst time to be revisit this trade. I would wait until Solder has at 3 pro-bowls under his belt and Light is long gone then no one will care if we could have won one extra game in 2009.

 

[Seels]

It all amounts to this for me:

There is no way Seymour was making an appreciable difference in 09 or 2010, and the difference he would have made is certainly not worth a first round pick plus the money he would have received (this is not even discussing the probably opportunity cost of who the Patriots are limited in getting without being able to spend because of Seymour's money).

Richard Seymour is not the player he was from 02-06. They didn't trade away this player, and the current version is not capable of fixing the pass rush by himself.

 

[satz]

After reading most threads i think seems like

1) Seymour is a avg DL

2)Players who followed him Brace ,Deadrick ,Pyor , Love ,Ellis, both warrens who plays in 2009 and 2010 where better than avg and Seymour avg play was easily replaced.

3) Our DL which was always touted as the best till 2008 is STILL one of the best.

4)Even his 2011 2 1/2 sack and harasing QB production is nothing compared to what our DL have been able to do this year. Oh let me add sacks are overrated.

I disagree to all the above but most pats fan do not.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Good analysis. Seymour is on pace for 14 sacks this year.

New England Patriots prepare for Oakland Raiders and Richard Seymour - ESPN Boston

we could NOT afford both him and Vince.


Seymour='s Nate Solder


obviously Seymour is a gem... financially we would have lost him to $$$ from other teams. Out of our reach

thnx for SOLDER Al

 

[RayClay]

Mark Anderson is on pace for 10 sacks and Brady is on pace for 58 touchdowns and 7077 yards. 3 games is a really small sample. I really don't think Seymour would re-sign he had beef with Belichick supposedly about coming out on 3rd down or something like that. And he wanted BIG money. If he becomes a free agent he isn't resigning here. Seymour is a great player and all but, I still believe trading him was the best option. It comes down to this, with or without seymour they don't win the super bowl in 09. Only other option I see is maybe they sign vince earlier and franchise tag seymour last year.

Vince is on pace for 5-6 interceptions this year, but i wouldn't limit him to that. Now that he has the taste of blood, I expect him to be a ballhawk that would put Asante to shame.

 

[patsfanboy]

I agree we need to see how Solder turns out in the future, but the Pats failed to find a replace for Seymour.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Having Solder softens the blow a little bit, he looks like he'll be a good player for a long time and at an important position. That being said, trading Seymour was not a good move IMO, you don't trade a player of his talent who plays on the Dline, a contract could have been worked out before Crazy Al threw his crazy money at him and you absolutely could have paid both Seymour and Wilfork. They should of also factored in Warren's play when making this decision.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Having Solder softens the blow a little bit, he looks like he'll be a good player for a long time and at an important position. That being said, trading Seymour was not a good move IMO, you don't trade a player of his talent who plays on the Dline, a contract could have been worked out before Crazy Al threw his crazy money at him and you absolutely could have paid both Seymour and Wilfork. They should of also factored in Warren's play when making this decision.

How would we LOCK UP Mayo if we signed Seymour???

 

[E1Downey]

Vince is on pace for 5-6 interceptions this year, but i wouldn't limit him to that. Now that he has the taste of blood, I expect him to be a ballhawk that would put Asante to shame.

Lol Ty for this. I've never been a fan of the " on pace for " statements this early in the season.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I hate revisiting this trade. I would like to make believe it never happened actually. I drank the Koolaid on this one at first and now I'm throwing it up. This guy wasn't close to being at the end of his career and we have paid for the trade as fans. He's a dominant player and I'd take him over Haynesworth in a heartbeat. Not only can he still get to the QB and draw double teams but his wingspan was able to bat down balls like the best in history.

It's spilt milk and it's over. Looking back, money was freed up by Harrison and Bruschi retiring as well as Vrabel being traded away. We could of had both Vince and Richard, there's no doubt in my mind now. Worst move of the decade by the Pats looking back. I originally liked it to my dismay thinking the Pats were going to get a top 5 pick out of the deal. Solder is nice but Seymour is a superstar atleast for a couple of more years.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It all amounts to this for me:

There is no way Seymour was making an appreciable difference in 09 or 2010,

Devil's advocate: Do we know that Seymour wouldn't have been part of the Afailius crew that came close to destroying the locker room?

 

[IllegalContact]

Devil's advocate: Do we know that Seymour wouldn't have been part of the Afailius crew that came close to destroying the locker room?

Because Seymour is a good locker room guy.

The problem wa not letting him go, but not replacing him

 

[bresna]

Seymour was NOT staying here, franchise tag or not. He made it clear last year when his contract ran out and was asked about coming back to the Patriots. He told Tom Curran, "There's probably about 31 teams I'd consider going to."

Seymour was gone, the Patriots knew it and got the most out of him that they could. The scene where the staff talks about it during the Belichick show on the NFL Network makes it clear that they had to save the franchise tag for Wilfork.

And Deus Irae, don't bother quoting me. You've been on my ignore list for a long time so I won't see your post. You're the prototypical internet forum troll, who almost always takes a contrarian position to prolong debate. I've seen your kind for years so I've learned to avoid getting sucked into your playground.