Revisiting Seymour trade

[Seacoast Fan]

Pointing out that someone who could have been franchised could have been franchised is not speculation. It is, indeed, the truth. Are we really going to have to get into dictionary issues now?

But your whole postion is that the Pats would have been better with Seymour here the past two years....if you dont think that is speculation, then, yes, lets go to the dictionary so you will learn the definition of that word.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Does anyone really think that Seymour is going to have a massive game against this team as in some type of revenge?

I don't expect to hear him name much,I think our OL will keep him well in check

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Does anyone really think that Seymour is going to have a massive game against this team as in some type of revenge?

I don't expect to hear him name much,I think our OL will keep him well in check

I hope he is kept in check. But I also think he will be fired up. It will be interesting to watch it play out. If I had to "speculate" I would say, the OL will do a good job and keep TB upright.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What happens to Wilfork if they franchise Seymour instead?

Quit lobbing him softballs. His answer will be they could have signed Wilfork to the deal he eventually signed. Even though they clearly wanted and perhaps felt they needed the leverage and they obviously didn't want to be in a position to be paying them both top dollar...

1.) That's now, not then. 2.) That's the Raiders overpaying. 3.) J. Kraft stated categorically that the Patriots have never lost a player they wanted to keep over money.

Which just underscores that in the teams opinion Seymour wasn't worth his asking price and/or a player that dispite his acknowledged talent they wanted to keep for other reasons that had developed or emerged over time... Durability, inconsistency of performance, overall attitude/leadership on and off the field, etc. They can find a way to keep any player they really want to. But that involves long term financial or short term roster concessions. It appears in Seymour's case they determined neither was prefereable when presented with the option of easily picking up a #1 (on their terms alone) without incurring complications to attempt to either do so or retain him going forward.

 

[D-Money]

It was doned.My problem is not drafting a defensive linemen in the draft.Year in and year out the genius keeps outsmarting himself!

 

[sbpatfan]

They could still have signed him.

What if Wilfork signs somewhere else?

 

[Deus Irae]

But your whole postion is that the Pats would have been better with Seymour here the past two years....if you dont think that is speculation, then, yes, lets go to the dictionary so you will learn the definition of that word.

No, my whole position is that the trade sucked. You're the one who asked about how Seymour would play if he'd been franchised.

Please, go through this thread and find where I talked about Seymour's level of play.

 

[Sciz]

They could still have signed him.

Right. So they chose Wilfork and a first round pick over Seymour, a chance at Wilfork, and the third round comp pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

What if Wilfork signs somewhere else?

Wilfork wanted to stay in New England, and New England had the money to sign him. Why would he have signed somewhere else?

 

[sbpatfan]

Right. So they chose Wilfork and a first round pick over Seymour, a chance at Wilfork, and the third round comp pick.

Deus would rather take his chances with a crappy 2009 team that couldn't beat anyone worth a damn. Seymour was the missing piece to that championship team!

 

[sbpatfan]

Wilfork wanted to stay in New England, and New England had the money to sign him. Why would he have signed somewhere else?

It's called money. More money. You seem to be all bent up on the trade because you have some dream world worked up in your mind where things go perfectly.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

No, my whole position is that the trade sucked. You're the one who asked about how Seymour would play if he'd been franchised.

Please, go through this thread and find where I talked about Seymour's level of play.

You said:

The trade will have sucked regardless, because the player chosen doesn't matter. Two seasons have been wasted, in no small part because the defensive line has been so bad since Seymour was moved, and this season is off to that same start so far. It was a lousy trade.


But even assuming that the statement above doesn't talk about Seymour's level of play...which it clearly does...you said the player chosen with the Seymour pick doesn't matter, and now you say, you aren't talking about Seymour's level of play. If you remove those two items, how can there possibly be any level of factual support for your statement the trade sucked?

 

[Deus Irae]

It's called money. More money. You seem to be all bent up on the trade because you have some dream world worked up in your mind where things go perfectly.

New England had the money. It's a non-issue. Also, you have my reasoning wrong.

 

[sbpatfan]

New England had the money. It's a non-issue. Also, you have my reasoning wrong.

Did they have the money? Please explain to all of us how NE could have worked out all those contracts. With actual numbers since you seem to know.

 

[Deus Irae]

You said:

The trade will have sucked regardless, because the player chosen doesn't matter. Two seasons have been wasted, in no small part because the defensive line has been so bad since Seymour was moved, and this season is off to that same start so far. It was a lousy trade.


But even assuming that the statement above doesn't talk about Seymour's level of play...which it clearly does...you said the player chosen with the Seymour pick doesn't matter, and now you say, you aren't talking about Seymour's level of play. If you remove those two items, how can there possibly be any level of factual support for your statement the trade sucked?

I'm sorry that you can't see the difference between Seymour's level of play and the level of play of the line with his replacements, but that's your problem and not mine. If Seymour had crapped the bed after being traded, such a decline would have been worth looking at. Since he hasn't, his level of play on another team isn't really important to discuss except as a rebuttal to those who would argue that he was in decline.

As for the rest, it's obvious. The player taken is meaningless. The deal was for a first round pick years down the road. It was not Seymour for Solder.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did they have the money? Please explain to all of us how NE could have worked out all those contracts. With actual numbers since you seem to know.

Figure it out yourself. It's not difficult to do.

 

[migman33]

Just on his leadership alone that the Raiders have been lacking this deal was worth it!

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Great player but the first rounder was well worth it. Even if we somehow would've resigned him, we'd still have netted the same playoff results the way our offense crumbled in those 2 games. And he was here in 2008 when our pass rush was just as lousy.

If it was a situation like in '06 and '07 where everything came down to making a stop and we couldn't do it, I could understand thinking what if he was here. But it never came close to that, I'd rather take the extra cap room and the 1st rounder to build towards our future.

 

[Darolyn72]

I laugh at the they can't afford it argument. You're searching to justify every Patriot move. How bout this. They can afford him the same way Pittsburgh affords - Ben, Woodley, Farrior, Ward, Harrison, Hampton, Ike Taylor

Jets afford - Sanchez, Mangold, Harris, Scott, Pace, Holmes, Revis

Philly affords - Ndami, Samuel, Vick, Babin, Jenkins, Jackson

That's how. The cap hasn't been a factor in 7 years. And its going up with the new contracts in 2012.

They blew it on Seymour. Just accept it. Its not even an argument anymore.

The Patriots are paying 3 people big money. Brady, Vince and Mankins. They are 10 million under the cap. And they are ONE, ONE player who can rush the QB from a Super Bowl. It should have everyone on this board enraged.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Great player but the first rounder was well worth it. Even if we somehow would've resigned him, we'd still have netted the same playoff results the way our offense crumbled in those 2 games. And he was here in 2008 when our pass rush was just as lousy.

If it was a situation like in '06 and '07 where everything came down to making a stop and we couldn't do it, I could understand thinking what if he was here. But it never came close to that, I'd rather take the extra cap room and the 1st rounder to build towards our future.

Not to mention he was there in '06 and '07 (albeit only in the second half...) as well as in '08 and part of three SB winning teams where oddly the defense wasn't as dominant as some revisionist historians seem intent on portraying it...at least not for all 60 minutes when it mattered most.