Revisiting Seymour trade

[upstater1]

Seymour was a casualty of the CBA negotiations. With Brady, Wilfork and Seymour up, you'd be hardpressed to shell out $75 million to these guys up front, especially in this economic climate.

In hindsight, we have plenty of cap room so the Patriots could have signed Seymour, there's a good CBA in place, etc.

But that's in hindsight.

Not so concerned about Solder either. clearly the Patriots wanted him and they could have traded their #1 with the Vereen pick, a 2 and a 4, whatever, to move up from 28 or whereever to 18. They would have had Solder regardless.

In the future, we need to sign our best players. We should have stayed with branch and Seymour, but given the variables around Seymour's contract, it's hard to say. The business climate got in the way.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

At the time of the trade, Sey was at best average for us (when he was on
the field) and looking for the really big payday. I doubt he would have signed
with us unless it was under the franchise label. I'm satisfied with the trade. I
do think the Raiders got the better part of the deal since the trade, but at a
very big price. Over the next few years hopefully that will even things out and
it becomes a big win-win for both teams.

The only part of Sey that bothers me to this day was I thought the last
couple of years he was just 'playing' the game and was not 'working'
at his craft. I am probably wrong but that's how I saw it.

 

[Rob0729]

Seymour was a casualty of the CBA negotiations. With Brady, Wilfork and Seymour up, you'd be hardpressed to shell out $75 million to these guys up front, especially in this economic climate.

In hindsight, we have plenty of cap room so the Patriots could have signed Seymour, there's a good CBA in place, etc.

But that's in hindsight.

Not so concerned about Solder either. clearly the Patriots wanted him and they could have traded their #1 with the Vereen pick, a 2 and a 4, whatever, to move up from 28 or whereever to 18. They would have had Solder regardless.

In the future, we need to sign our best players. We should have stayed with branch and Seymour, but given the variables around Seymour's contract, it's hard to say. The business climate got in the way.

The CBA had most teams hesitant to sign big deals. Who knew how the CBA would have turned out. Personally, I think if the Pats didn't make the trade, they would have let Seymour walk before last season. If they knew then, what they knew now they might have made a deal. But at the time, I don't see them giving big contracts to Brady, Wilfork, and Seymour especially since Seymour appeared to be on the decline.

 

[everlong]

3.) J. Kraft stated categorically that the Patriots have never lost a player they wanted to keep over money.

I think he meant to say just money. In the cases of Assante, Seymour and Branch there were other factors but money certainly was in the list of deal breakers.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I always find it interesting that a player plays at a lesser level than is expected, and gets traded. Player is insulted/embarressed/motivated, and turns it up a notch with new team. Suddenly, many feel like the team never should have traded that player, as if he would have played that way for the old team (which he was not doing).

P.S. - He hasn't exactly been one of the best DLinemen in the league since he left. Better than he was, yes. Elite, and worth being the highest paid at his position? No way.
P.P.S. - If Solder plays at a top level for the next 12 years, what will folks say then?

 

[letekro]

We took an L on this. No matter how good Solder becomes, Seymour would have made a huge difference on our defense last year. No way the Jets go marching down the field with Seymour in our lineup.

Last year should have been the 4th ring for our team and we'd be in a better position this year for a 5th.

Haha. Seymour wouldn't have resigned with us after 2009, so you're completely wrong. Never minding that small problem, why exactly would he have made the difference last year?? He would have tackled Cotchery on that ridiculous play in the 4th quarter? He would've played TE and caught that touchdown pass that Crumpler dropped?

Not suprised to see you jump in on this thread started by your Brother in Misery.

 

[PlainOldEd]

We took an L on this. No matter how good Solder becomes, Seymour would have made a huge difference on our defense last year. No way the Jets go marching down the field with Seymour in our lineup.

Last year should have been the 4th ring for our team and we'd be in a better position this year for a 5th.

The question isn't "would this team be better with Seymour?", I think we all agree that it would. The question is was the trade a good or bad idea. Personally, even if he hadn't been traded, I don't think he would have re-signed. So I would vote that it was the right thing to do at the time.

 

[aluminum seats]

I vote that it's water under the bridge. We coulda done this, we shoulda done that, whatever. It'd be nice having Seymour on the team, and it is nice Solder's on the team. That's about it. Play on.

 

[FCB02062]

The Patriots footy pajama brigade will defend this trade, the drafting of Chad Jackson, the effectiveness of the "big nickel", the double tight end threat of Ben Watson and Daniel Graham, etc., until the cows come home.
Unless Nate Solder can suddenly sack the quarterback, then this trade to me is and always has been baffling....but wait, was Solder a "value pick"?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Even though the leageu considers him as one but ROB does not.

The league also considered Brandon Meriweather one as well with his two Pro Bowls....

 

[BradyFTW!]

In his final years here,Seymour was not a difference maker on this team and was frequently injured weeks at a time.

Maybe he just fits in as a Raider than he was here for some reason.

I don't think his presence was all that huge after the 2005 season and I really don't think he would have been a destructive force had he been here now.
Some people live on the early years of Seymour when he was that all pro wrecking ball.....he left here as a shallow of that player.

I don't miss him all that much and our defense would still suck ass right now,even with him on the line...there are more problems with this D than just adding a player in his 30s to it.

Did you watch football in 2008?

The league also considered Brandon Meriweather one as well with his two Pro Bowls....

Furthermore, given how the safeties have played the last couple of weeks, now probably isn't the best time to be taking shots at Meriweather. I'm not even really a fan of him, but he's better than the guys that we had back there this past week, to say the least.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think he meant to say just money. In the cases of Assante, Seymour and Branch there were other factors but money certainly was in the list of deal breakers.

Pretty sure it means that the Pats felt that the money that it would have taken to keep Seymour was better spent on other players. I disagree with that assessment. Always did, still do.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think he meant to say just money. In the cases of Assante, Seymour and Branch there were other factors but money certainly was in the list of deal breakers.

Felger has been talking about the cap being a non-issue for years, and the Patriots have been talking about that not being the case (sources off the record). This came out in an interview with Kraft, with Felger talking about the Jets being able to sign all the players they wanted. Kraft responded by basically questioning that assertion by Felger, and by stating that the Patriots have never failed to sign a player because of money. However, even if money was something of an issue, that's just a sign of poor resource management. Instead of signing players like Kaczur to extensions, they could have been tying up Wilfork and Seymour. There are a lot more Kaczurs than Seymours available in free agency.

The Seymour decision was just a mistake by the Patriots.

 

[everlong]

Felger has been talking about the cap being a non-issue for years, and the Patriots have been talking about that not being the case (sources off the record). This came out in an interview with Kraft, with Felger talking about the Jets being able to sign all the players they wanted. Kraft responded by basically questioning that assertion by Felger, and by stating that the Patriots have never failed to sign a player because of money. However, even if money was something of an issue, that's just a sign of poor resource management. Instead of signing players like Kaczur to extensions, they could have been tying up Wilfork and Seymour.

The Seymour decision was just a mistake by the Patriots.

I heard the interview and at the time thought the exact same thing, that he forgot the word just and was being disingenuous. Perhaps they thought based on his performance here he was done and was telling the truth and they did mess up.

They certainly could have had signed Assante and Branch early had they not played hardball. With Seymour I think he was going to test the market and get top dollar no matter what. You franchise him and you risk losing VW. He wasn't signing early unless they paid above market value which is against the Patriots standard operating procedure.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Did you watch football in 2008?




Furthermore, given how the safeties have played the last couple of weeks, now probably isn't the best time to be taking shots at Meriweather. I'm not even really a fan of him, but he's better than the guys that we had back there this past week, to say the least.

The bottom line is,Seymour or no Seymour....this defense has too many holes to say one man would change everything.

We need a guy with a Mean Streak and a leader to take these guys by the balls and squeeze them until they cry and get them focused on playing as a cohesive defense.

Maybe Ray Lewis is a sort of thug,but a guy in the mold of someone like that is just what this team needs...we had that type of guy in Bruschi and Harrison...Lord,I miss those types of players that loved the game and showed others of how much the game should truly mean to you and how you should play as proud and to show a pride in wearing the uniform of the Flying Elvis.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

I always find it interesting that a player plays at a lesser level than is expected, and gets traded. Player is insulted/embarressed/motivated, and turns it up a notch with new team. Suddenly, many feel like the team never should have traded that player, as if he would have played that way for the old team (which he was not doing).


Otherwise known as the Roger Clemens Model.
I know this thread is about Seymour, but I'll never forget the first time I saw a picture of Clemens in a Toronto uniform...I didn't even recognize him, he had lost so much weight. :bricks:

 

[Seacoast Fan]

1.) That's now, not then.

2.) That's the Raiders overpaying.
3.) J. Kraft stated categorically that the Patriots have never lost a player they wanted to keep over money.

But wasn't that the driving issue, because someone...maybe the Raiders, maybe someone else...was going to overpay to get him the next year, so he was going to be lost. If the only way to keep Seymour was to overpay him then in my opinion, the trade made alot of sense.

 

[Rob0729]

The bottom line is,Seymour or no Seymour....this defense has too many holes to say one man would change everything.

We need a guy with a Mean Streak and a leader to take these guys by the balls and squeeze them until they cry and get them focused on playing as a cohesive defense.

Maybe Ray Lewis is a sort of thug,but a guy in the mold of someone like that is just what this team needs...we had that type of guy in Bruschi and Harrison...Lord,I miss those types of players that loved the game and showed others of how much the game should truly mean to you and how you should play as proud and to show a pride in wearing the uniform of the Flying Elvis.

I don't get this mean streak thing. Wilfork has a mean streak. Haynesworth has a mean streak. There are plenty of guys with mean streak on this team. There are plenty of guys with mean streaks around the league who are totally ineffective. Personally, I think you are making more of Seymour's intagibles in that area than he really had.

Yes, the last couple of years, the defense needed more veteran leadership especially in 2009, but I don't think Seymour was the missing piece between an one and done in the playoffs the last two years and a Super Bowl win or two. He certainly would have helped, but there were other issues on the defense.

Even this year so far, the biggest weakness is the secondary of this team. Seymour wouldn't had helped there. And his last few years here, he was taken out on a lot of passing downs to begin with.

Seymour would be a significant upgrade to what we have at DT/DE next to Wilfork unless Haynesworth does rebound to his 2008 form in the next few weeks (not that I am holding out a lot of hope). But even if Haynesworth returns to be one of the best d-linemen in the league, there is a lot more that has to happen on the defense to make it a good defense. So Seymour wouldn't be that difference maker at this point for this year either.

One last thing about the trade not specific to the post I responded to. If you can guarantee that if the Pats didn't trade him that he would have been resigned and his career would have rebounded, then you can make the argument it was a bad trade. If you cannot, then I don't think you can argue that. You are then arguing that a potential rent a player is worth more than the 17 pick in the draft even if it is two years later.

 

[Deus Irae]

But wasn't that the driving issue, because someone...maybe the Raiders, maybe someone else...was going to overpay to get him the next year, so he was going to be lost. If the only way to keep Seymour was to overpay him then in my opinion, the trade made alot of sense.

Seymour could have been franchised and then franchised again. Barring that, he could have been franchised and then had a contract worked out in the uncapped year.

The trade was a terrible one.

 

[Sciz]

For $15M a year, they can have him all they want. Be glad the pats got a first round pick out of it as opposed to a 3rd round comp pick.