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Pats sign DE Mark Anderson


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Superfly, Why were you hoping for a bigger name? except ocho and big al (or randy moss, corey dillon in the past) BB is not bringing the big names, he brings the players that were seemingly washed-up, or not very known players and gave them the chance to make a break (just like rodney harrison). thats what he does. big names were never his fav option, its messing up the team concept that he established to the patriots. IMHO.
 
Superfly, Why were you hoping for a bigger name? except ocho and big al (or randy moss, corey dillon in the past) BB is not bringing the big names, he brings the players that were seemingly washed-up, or not very known players and gave them the chance to make a break (just like rodney harrison). thats what he does. big names were never his fav option, its messing up the team concept that he established to the patriots. IMHO.

Yes, I agree and you make a good point. I certainly did not mean someone who is off-the-charts or anything. Believe me, I am the first guy to try and bring everyone down to earth in all of the off season and trade talk, b/c they rarely make sense.

Let me clarify---by a 'big name' I meant one of the guys who we worked out this week: Ellis, Brock, Harris, Roth. I think that any one of them could have contributed on some level here, but since BB didn't, so be it. I have incredible trust in his choices and system. But just about all of us kinda wanted one of those 'bigger names' on the front 7. Mark Anderson is not exactly who most of us were looking for, and I'm just being honest. That said, I expect him as camp fodder, or possibly a specialty role if he impresses. The fact is that he has a chance, so he has obviously earned it.
 
Yes, I agree and you make a good point. I certainly did not mean someone who is off-the-charts or anything. Believe me, I am the first guy to try and bring everyone down to earth in all of the off season and trade talk, b/c they rarely make sense.

Let me clarify---by a 'big name' I meant one of the guys who we worked out this week: Ellis, Brock, Harris, Roth. I think that any one of them could have contributed on some level here, but since BB didn't, so be it. I have incredible trust in his choices and system. But just about all of us kinda wanted one of those 'bigger names' on the front 7. Mark Anderson is not exactly who most of us were looking for, and I'm just being honest. That said, I expect him as camp fodder, or possibly a specialty role if he impresses. The fact is that he has a chance, so he has obviously earned it.

Got you right there. to be honest, just like you i was hoping to sign Tommie harris, i was somewhat disappointed that it didnt work out (and more disappointed that the Colts signed him), but thats the belichick way and who am i to question his way.

Just like you i dont see Anderson making a big impact, maybe a 3rd down pass-rusher but as always im hoping for a pleasant surprise.
 
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Superfly, Why were you hoping for a bigger name? except ocho and big al (or randy moss, corey dillon in the past) BB is not bringing the big names, he brings the players that were seemingly washed-up, or not very known players and gave them the chance to make a break (just like rodney harrison). thats what he does. big names were never his fav option, its messing up the team concept that he established to the patriots. IMHO.

Not very known players and gave them a chance to make a break, just like Rodney Harrison?
Harrison came to New England after being the full-time starter at safety for San Diego for seven seasons. He had 26 INT's and 21.5 sacks, and went to two Pro Bowls with the Chargers.

Why were fans hoping for a bigger name?
In the past, the OLB spot is the one position where Belichick has struck hard in free agency. Arguably the two biggest names the Patriots have ever brought in through free agency (not trade) were Rosey Colvin and Adalius Thomas. Still, I believe, the two biggest external free agent contracts the team has handed out. This was the biggest weakness on the defense, and the third-down defense was the biggest weakness on the 2010 team.

Messes up the team concept?
When Adalius Thomas came in, he made 30% more than three-time Super Bowl winner Mike Vrabel. When Colvin came, he made over 50% more than Vrabel.
In 2009, Moss made $10mm and Welker made $4mm.
When Kyle Brady came in, he made double Ben Watson.
Duane Starks was hired as a corner for over $2mm per when Samuel was making $500K.
That's just how free agency works.

The Patriots have done a better job at filling out the 53 with a strong corps than many teams, but the large contracts to Brady, Wilfork, Light, Law, Moss, etc. demonstrate that they have always been willing to pay their top performers.
 
wish they would sign matt roth already, dont know why they cant do it, unless they have a trade to make with the nyg...
 
Yeah this is total stupidity. Can you two guys arguing in the corner please give the thread back to us wanting to discuss this guy in a more balanced way?
Clear away all the debris and Anderson is TBC for 1/3 the cost: Good, not great situational pass rusher who is not very effective against the run.

Nothing to get excited about pro or con.
 
These stats from their respective combine testing really are irrelavant today, unless both were to repeat them in BB's office!!! Seriously, both of these guys have most likely "changed" and slowed down since the college combines and there is no value in going by those numbers any longer.....hopefully Anderson will bring some competitiveness to training camp....

Very interesting.

He came out as someone we looked at as a 3-4 OLB. The classic 6-4, 4.6 guy: 6-4.2, 254 pounds, 4.61 40. Incredible athleticism - he had the biggest vertical and long jump of all the free agent DE/OLB's we considered, and great speed. Compare his measurables to Matt Roth:
Code:
Roth:    6-3.3 278, 4.81 40, 26 reps, 32" VJ,  9-4 broad, 7.7 three-cone
Anderson: 6-4.2 254, 4.61 40, 20 reps, 42" VJ, 10-7 broad, 7.0 three-cone
But his productivity has been lacking. Five starts the past four years. He was basically a third-down pass rusher, but generated only four sacks last year. As a 4-3 DE, he hasn't been great.

He was probably cheap.

But is this a potential 3-4 OLB pass rusher to replace the TBC role?
A third-down DE?

On the weak DE/OLB corps, this is clearly a move that adds depth. And adds a lot of athleticism.

On the list of seven free agent DE/OLB types, I had him last (Charles Johnson, Manny Lawson, Ray Edwards, Matt Roth, Mathias Kiwanuka, Jason Babin, Mark Anderson).
 
Not very known players and gave them a chance to make a break, just like Rodney Harrison?
Harrison came to New England after being the full-time starter at safety for San Diego for seven seasons. He had 26 INT's and 21.5 sacks, and went to two Pro Bowls with the Chargers.

Why were fans hoping for a bigger name?
In the past, the OLB spot is the one position where Belichick has struck hard in free agency. Arguably the two biggest names the Patriots have ever brought in through free agency (not trade) were Rosey Colvin and Adalius Thomas. Still, I believe, the two biggest external free agent contracts the team has handed out. This was the biggest weakness on the defense, and the third-down defense was the biggest weakness on the 2010 team.

Messes up the team concept?
When Adalius Thomas came in, he made 30% more than three-time Super Bowl winner Mike Vrabel. When Colvin came, he made over 50% more than Vrabel.
In 2009, Moss made $10mm and Welker made $4mm.
When Kyle Brady came in, he made double Ben Watson.
Duane Starks was hired as a corner for over $2mm per when Samuel was making $500K.
That's just how free agency works.

The Patriots have done a better job at filling out the 53 with a strong corps than many teams, but the large contracts to Brady, Wilfork, Light, Law, Moss, etc. demonstrate that they have always been willing to pay their top performers.

It dosnt matter, Rodney came to the pats while he was considerd as a washed-up player, he said so himself. that's what i ment - BB brings the players with the potential rather the players with the big names.

Big names: i have no problem of hoping for big names, as i said i was hoping for one myself, but there is not much reason to hope for because BB is not known for doing those kind of transactions. he is bringing like i said, the players you would not expect to make a big impact, thats all.

Team concept: That dosnt matter, when BB thinks you are good but your paiment-demands are off the charts you are on the "thank you for your contribution and goodbye" list just like Ty law.

To make it clear, I didnt say it was bad\wrong to hope for big names, but its not that type of moves that BB will make often, therefor there isnt much to hope for. Big al and Ocho are low-risk high reward players, and big names as i thought Superfly ment is not the way BB is going.
 
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is this a potential 3-4 OLB pass rusher to replace the TBC role?
A third-down DE?
Good call. From Reiss:

Cleaning out the Patriots notebook - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
1. Kept a close eye on free-agent acquisition Mark Anderson on Friday. When the Patriots broke down into individual positions, he stayed with Jermaine Cunningham, Eric Moore and the defensive end/outside linebacker group. In one-on-one drills, I watched him use his speed to go wide on offensive tackle Nate Solder with success. In 11 on 11 work, he was swallowed up by right tackle Sebastian Vollmer on a speed rush, with Vollmer getting his hands on him and pushing him out of the way. Looking forward to seeing more, but the first impression of Anderson was "speed rusher" who doesn't look as physical as a McGinest/Vrabel type who have lined up at that spot in this defense in the past.

Just as most of us figured: Situational pass rusher in the TBC mold, not stout enough for running downs.
 
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Just a couple of very knowledgeable and well respected posters having a pissing match...no worries, happens all of the time.

I don't personally know a damn thing about Mark Anderson myself. Like most, I was hoping for a bigger name signing this week (not named Channing Crowder). In that respect, if Belichick thinks that he can be sufficient camp fodder, or even feels as though he has a decent shot at making the 53 man roster, then I'm all for it.

If you have any knowledge about any specifics of this player (besides the obvious NFL/ESPN writeups and stats), I would love to know more about him.

From what I can come up with, we have input from people actually seen him play as a pro. That would be atleast a couple of games and not just some seconds. The other being his 40dash time and jump which shows alot of promise but as we all know its about using it on the field.
Third Is his stats which have been discussed quite alot and the fact that he had a really good rookie season but then seemed to lose pace. Fourth would be injuries.

1. "Watching the tape"
2. 40s time etc.
3. Pure stats, hurries, sacks games etc.
4. Injuries

These are just some examples but could lead the discussion right again. Also, one thing is CERTAIN and that is that we cant say anything how he will be in NE. We can only say because of this and this, I think he´s gonna turn out this or this way.

Just my two cents. Next post I´ll actually try and mention something about the player.
 
And how many snaps would that be then. Anyone can have an opinion based off watching a handful of snaps but that opinion is unlikely to be accurate or useful unless there's a large enoughs sample size to form a useful and informed opinion. Not to mention, judging a player's performance without also judging what the scheme was trying to do on that down and distance and what breakdowns happened on that play can also lead to inaccurately formed opinions. So far none of what you've said leads me to believe you've based your conclusions on any detailed or well reasoned analysis.

So far your arguments can be summed up to be - Anderson can't develop into a Vrabel-like player because I believe his skillset to be limited. Players with limited skillsets cannot become versatile players. Therefore Anderson cannot become a versatile player. He must therefore be a one dimensional Derrick Burgess type player. However your core proof for Anderson having a limited skillset lacks substantiation OTHER THAN he hasn't seen a lot of snaps as a starter. But then again neither did Vrabel for 4 years in Pittsburgh.

And for the record, Anderson has only played 5 years in the league, that's a whopping 1 season longer than Vrabel did before he became a Patriot. It's hard to believe that Anderson has become set in stone after a whopping 1 season more of playing in the league than Vrabel did.



And neither was Vrabel. He had a 4 year track record of being a very lightly used situational pass rusher in Pittsburgh. Notice that Pittsburgh doesn't use the same system as the Pats. Notice that neither do the Bears or the Texans. Pittsburgh didn't know what they had in Vrabel because they never played him in the system the Pats use. It's also premature to project Anderson's abilities based on his play in systems entirely foreign to ours.



Another red herring. And you wouldn't make a very good witness if you were testifying based only on your own opinion rather than the facts. If you'd actually present some convincing facts to SUPPORT your opinion, I could definitely be persuaded.



So far you haven't presented any convincing proof that his skillset will be strictly limited to only one area. Some proof that would be persuasive would include seeing some detailed scouting reports or perhaps first hand accounts from someone who has actually watched Anderson extensively over his career.



More red herrings. Can Pinnochio suddenly grow wings and fly? Who cares. Let's get back to the football discussion.



Obviously somebody thought Vrabel had NFL ability or he wouldn't have been drafted. I don't see what argument you're trying to make here. Whether people thought he was going to be a starter and turn out as good as he did, well even Pittsburgh didn't know that or they wouldn't have given up on him after 4 years.



Again your statement is inaccurate. Vrabel was lightly used in Pittsburgh for 4 seasons before the Patriots 'discovered' him, plucked him from free agency, and eventually turned him into the player we know and love. Mark Anderson's career has been a whopping 1 season longer than Vrabels. He has only seen significant starting time in 1 of those 5 seasons. Point is we don't know what we have in Anderson because we don't have a large enough sample size.
Mark Anderson NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Maybe the bottom line is that you feel offended for some reason because Anderson's being compared to Mike Vrabel but the career parallels are actually quite similar. BB picks up a guy who didn't get much of a chance to show what he could do on his previous team(s), a guy with the right build, and athleticism to play the Pats 3-4, and hopes to mold him into a useful piece.

Maybe Anderson was a shot in the dark, but maybe the coaches see something in him that make it worth giving him a shot. The SAME can be said of Mike Vrabel before he proved himself with us.

Of course there's no way to tell if Mark Anderson can turn into the next Vrabel. But there are a lot of similarities here as far as how their career paths have gone up till now. And until presented with enough facts to make a solid judgment I'd rather not pigeonhole a guy before he's even taken a single snap in a Patriots uniform.

This whole discussion arises not from the fact that I have some deep seated belief that Anderson will turn into some all-pro but rather to reiterate the point, that players deserve a chance to PROVE themselves before we 'decide in our own minds' all that they are already capable of doing. This attitude is why players continue to slip through the cracks. The mental imaging of the one doing the 'talent evaluation' has no room to imagine the player being anything other than what their preconceived notions have already decided. This is why the Marques Colstons of the world slip to round 7, why the Michael Turners slip to round 5, and why the Tom Brady's slip to pick 199.

Where do I say that he shouldn't have a chance to prove himself?
I am giving my opinion. My opinion on a message board will not limit his opportunity.
My posting on a message board doesnt affect players slipping through the cracks.
Perhaps he will develop skills no one has ever seen him. I hope he does.
At this point my expectation is that he will compete for a roster spot and a job as a situational pass rusher. I hope he becomes another Vrabel, but I see no reason to have any confidence.
 
Patriots practice 11 observations - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Debut for DE Anderson. After signing on Friday morning, defensive end Mark Anderson made his practice debut in the afternoon. Anderson is known more for his pass-rushing potential, and looked over-matched in the running game. If Anderson is to carve out a role with the Patriots to make the 53-man roster, it will likely come only as a third-down rusher.
 
Patriots practice 11 observations - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Debut for DE Anderson. After signing on Friday morning, defensive end Mark Anderson made his practice debut in the afternoon. Anderson is known more for his pass-rushing potential, and looked over-matched in the running game. If Anderson is to carve out a role with the Patriots to make the 53-man roster, it will likely come only as a third-down rusher.
Yeah, that's what i said 4 pages ago.
 
Just as most of us figured: Situational pass rusher in the TBC mold, not stout enough for running downs.

Yep. About 100 posts back, before Andy & DB decided to fight over what it was they were fighting over:

I could see him taking over the situational rusher role that TBC projected to.

A cheap veteran role player with some upside, the classic camp pickup.
 
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I liked him coming out of school and I think this is just another case of Belichik taking a shot on a player they were looking at for years, and who they have pro tape to judge him on. He isn't Vrabel or he would be coaching at Pro Player U, but I really don't see why the comparison is so disturbing as there some parallels and the Pats would obviously like to see him develop along the same lines. Maybe he will step it up in NE or maybe he will end up cut, let's hope he stePs up.
 
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