The Number One Priority IS Defensive End

[Patriot Missile]

if the pats are going to go after someone like jenkins late in round 2, may as well grab kenrick ellis instead.

I just think wilkerson has the value late in the first round.......the only thing that dareus and fairley have over him are that they played in the SEC

I like Ellis quite a bit. He's a nose tackle and 340 pounds. The last I checked we just signed a pro bowl NT to a long term deal named Wilfork. I wouldn't argue at all if they went that route though. Having Ellis and Wilfork in certain alignments is appealing in many ways. Not to mention the depth. He is definately a Patriots type pick.

My reasoning for Jenkins is he translates to a DE/DT hybrid much better than someone like Ellis. He can line up as a 3 or 5 technique in 43 or 34 defense. He also played some NT too. He's the ideal replacement for Warren. Not to mention the depth he brings is enormous. Probably one of the most underrated players helping to pave the way for guys like Bowers and Sapp the last few years. For me personally, he is an ideal Patriot.

Also...For if whatever reason BB decides to get a wild hair and decide to draft the entire offensive line all over again and bypass DE in the first round and pick 33 all together, that he would atleast consider drafting Jenkins with 60 or 74

 

[Snake Eyes]

I like Ellis quite a bit. He's a nose tackle and 340 pounds. The last I checked we just signed a pro bowl NT to a long term deal named Wilfork. I wouldn't argue at all if they went that route though. Having Ellis and Wilfork in certain alignments is appealing in many ways. Not to mention the depth. He is definately a Patriots type pick.

My reasoning for Jenkins is he translates to a DE/DT hybrid much better than someone like Ellis. He can line up as a 3 or 5 technique in 43 or 34 defense. He also played some NT too. He's the ideal replacement for Warren. Not to mention the depth he brings is enormous. Probably one of the most underrated players helping to pave the way for guys like Bowers and Sapp the last few years. For me personally, he is an ideal Patriot.

Is there any reason why Ellis can't be trained as a DE?

 

[dryheat44]

Is there any reason why Ellis can't be trained as a DE?

He can't be trained to stay out of trouble. So possibly. I can't believe this turd sandwich who's character seems to run in the negatives is getting so much love today...as a possible option in the second round even!

 

[Snake Eyes]

He can't be trained to stay out of trouble. So possibly. I can't believe this turd sandwich who's character seems to run in the negatives is getting so much love today...as a possible option in the second round even!

I'd like to get more info on his exact issues, if it's smoking some weed and being a bit too heavy that's one thing, Phil Taylor-type assault is quite another.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Is there any reason why Ellis can't be trained as a DE?

He would do well there with time probably. It's just a matter of choice I guess. I see Jenkins more ready now, where as Ellis has more enormous upside. If your willing to gamble than choose Ellis. He had a very good NFLPA game that was essential due to his lack of competition at Hampton. for me my choice is the guy that did it every Saturday in the SEC.

I'd be happy with either. I just prefer Jenkins.

 

[dryheat44]

I'd like to get more info on his exact issues, if it's smoking some weed and being a bit too heavy that's one thing, Phil Taylor-type assault is quite another.

Well, here's the thing, even if it's a booting for smoking pot once or twice (which I seriously doubt), it still has to raise issues.

I have no problem with people getting high if that's what they want to do. The red flags come in when it's a situation where you know you're potentially going to get disciplined for it, and hurt your team with a suspension, and hurt your chances of playing professionally, and you still get caught doing it. Especially if it's more than once. I don't know whether it speaks more to attitude, intelligence, or priorities, but I do not want someone like that on my team. Why would anybody assume he's going to stop putting himself in those situations after he makes the NFL and gets paid?

Again, I think a "drug violation" would be have to be much more significant than being busted for smoking pot to be thrown off the SC football team. I think it's far more likely he was either a dealer or was into harder drugs.

Will he straighen himself out? Maybe, and I wish him the best. Corey Dillon had the same demons when he was younger and matured. I still wouldn't have drafted him back then.

 

[patchick]

I'd like to get more info on his exact issues, if it's smoking some weed and being a bit too heavy that's one thing, Phil Taylor-type assault is quite another.

It's a little murky, but here's what I've pieced together:

- Perpetually in the coach's doghouse for being out of shape and overweight
- Suspended for 3 games at South Carolia for "violations of team and university rules" (rumors say a combo of academic issues and failed drug tests), then violated even more rules and got thrown off the team
- At Hampton, was arrested for assault in the offseason
- Suspended for a game at Hampton for unspecified reasons

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Posters here have asked for a passrushing OLB every year since Belichick arrived. That may come or not. It may come in the first or not.

Belichick DEFINTELY understands the need to draft top defensive linemen. Who is acceptable to you as a DE? Is Wilkerson at 17 OK if ther rest are gone?

Here is the bottom line on 3-4 DE's in this draft.

Dareus is ready to start from day 1 and will be a stud in our defense against the run and like Seymour will require double teams rushing the passer. Unfortunately he is off the board very early. If Carolina did not have such a huge hole at QB, I would think they should consider taking him #1.

Wilkerson is not ready to start from day 1, if anything he projects a lot like Ty Warren. Nearly a year to learn technique and get much stronger, I miss Woicik already. However by year two, Wilkerson will be a stud agains the run, but provide little pass rush on his own. He may not even command a double team while rushing the passer.

Watt - I don't get. I watch tape and see a guy that gets turned sideways defending the run, holds no ground against the double team, and appears stiff while getting little pass rush, but is excellent at timing his jumps to knock down a bunch of balls. I must be missing something because the tape screams 4-3 under tackle yet the experts say 3-4 DE. I guess that is a Pittsburgh 3-4 1 gap DE?

My "one position over" sleeper is Phil Taylor for NT while moving Wilfork to DE. Taylor and Wilfork would literally tilt the field to the opposite side in the running game. What kind of a monster could the slow moving Spikes be if all runs were funneled directly to him? Lots of oppostunity for Nasty and Viscious! How sweet is that.

 

[patchick]

Here is the bottom line on 3-4 DE's in this draft.

Dareus is ready to start from day 1 and will be a stud in our defense against the run and like Seymour will require double teams rushing the passer. Unfortunately he is off the board very early. If Carolina did not have such a huge hole at QB, I would think they should consider taking him #1.

Wilkerson is not ready to start from day 1, if anything he projects a lot like Ty Warren. Nearly a year to learn technique and get much stronger, I miss Woicik already. However by year two, Wilkerson will be a stud agains the run, but provide little pass rush on his own. He may not even command a double team while rushing the passer.

Ochmed, I'd be curious for your observations on Jarvis Jenkins. If the Patriots reach round 2 without a DE prospect, he seems like the closest thing left.

 

[Patriot Missile]

if the pats are going to go after someone like jenkins late in round 2, may as well grab kenrick ellis instead.

I just think wilkerson has the value late in the first round.......the only thing that dareus and fairley have over him are that they played in the SEC

I agree with you that Wilkerson will be the pick if Watt and Jordan are off the board. No arguing that point. Who knows? Maybe they like Heyward and Wilkerson better already? I was agreeing with Belichickfan that it would be ideal to draft a DE and a DE/DT hybrid like player in the 2nd. Hence I mentioned Jenkins as a candidate.

 

[JoeShmoe]

This has been beaten down like a drum. First off mankins will play for the franchise tag. The Patriots are good at finding talented lineman later in the draft. It is possible we go the way you mentioned. They may do something like Pouncey and Watkins shifting Volmer to left and send Light on his way packing. who knows.

Not having Defensive line depth, QB play and mistakes were the culprit in that game. Not the oline. They protected long enough, Brady couldn't break it down, the Wr's were ineffective while blanketed. The coaching was horrific. Come away with points on those first few drives minus the botched fake and we are dictating the tempo in that game. Not the other way around.

Watch Jet game 2. Wilfork clobbered Mangold the entire game. Why? We still had some remote sense of depth on the line and that went all out the window the last few games leading up to the Jets game. They also had a huge lead which dictates defensive tempo and what the offense is going to do.. Yes having Warren back will help. But I'm not about to bank on a guy coming back from hip surgery to pave the way for our defense this season. That's a 2 year healer right there. Has anyone heard anything from Wright regarding his concussions?

Again, I'm loading up on the D-line this year and hopefully picking up a 1st or 2nd next year and addressing the oline then. There are 2 true centers I have my eye on to replace Koppen. Certainly Pugh this year would be a nice practice squad player to evaluate.

I agree if we can get a 3 down, 5-tech DE to help the line then great, I just dispute if its our number one priority

With all the shennigans over the NFLPA who knows if there will even be a franchise tag and what Mankins situation might be, also Koppen and Connoly get abused by the higher end DL's in the AFC

All that being said, I think a lot of what happens will be driven on the day and who falls to #17 or near #17. perhaps Aldon Smith, Robert Quinn or Julio Jones

 

[Patriot Missile]

I agree if we can get a 3 down, 5-tech DE to help the line then great, I just dispute if its our number one priority

With all the shennigans over the NFLPA who knows if there will even be a franchise tag and what Mankins situation might be, also Koppen and Connoly get abused by the higher end DL's in the AFC

All that being said, I think a lot of what happens will be driven on the day and who falls to #17 or near #17. perhaps Aldon Smith, Robert Quinn or Julio Jones

Your right Koppen and Connoly get abused by bigger D-lineman. Thats what makes Ngata and Wilfork so great. Unfortunately Centers that can handle those types of players don't grow on trees. Even Mangold and Mankins gets flattened and outplayed at times. And there probowlers. The key is to score first and fast and as many times as you can. We just failed to do in the last game of this year. A combination of poor execution and good defense by the Jets.


+.

 

[Off The Grid]

Yes having Warren back will help. But I'm not about to bank on a guy coming back from hip surgery to pave the way for our defense this season. That's a 2 year healer right there.

Well said, Brother Missile!! It is VERY refreshing to see somebody else mention what I've been banging to table about, since September: Ty Warren may very well return to his former self. And with a full year to heal his WHOLE body, I strongly suspect that he's going to return to his exceptional form of YesterYear...But to expect that to happen this year...would be a mistake. History is REPLETE with examples that make it clear that that is simply not likely, and that it takes 18 months or more to take it back all the way through the gears and recapture that previous form. The names Tom Brady and Wes Welker come to mind, do they not?

My "one position over" sleeper is Phil Taylor for NT while moving Wilfork to DE. Taylor and Wilfork would literally tilt the field to the opposite side in the running game. What kind of a monster could the slow moving Spikes be if all runs were funneled directly to him? Lots of oppostunity for Nasty and Vicious! How sweet is that.

Excellent point, Brother Jones. Personally, I'd rather see Vince Wilfork remain at Nose Tackle, and Taylor take the End, in that example. Of course, I still haven't made my mind up about which 2 of 3 out of Phil Taylor, Kenrick Ellis, or JJ Watt I'd prefer to haul in...But to your point: I am a STAUNCH supporter of Brandon Spikes, and believe he is going to have a MONSTER Sophomore year, with 18 months ~ including Camps, I pray ~ to master the System. And I think he'll play a LOT quicker...Having said that, the idea of forcing traffic right TOWARDS his Nasty, Vicious self...is an INTOXICATING one!!

Koppen and Connoly get abused by bigger D-lineman. Thats what makes Ngata and Wilfork so great. Unfortunately Centers that can handle those types of players don't grow on trees. Even Mangold and Mankins gets flattened and outplayed at times.

Indeed...And that's why I was so ADAMANT about getting The Marquis de Pouncey, last year...And it is why I am so adamant about IGNORING this year's mediocre class...and waiting on Mike Brewster AND Peter Konz, next year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

He would do well there with time probably. It's just a matter of choice I guess. I see Jenkins more ready now, where as Ellis has more enormous upside. If your willing to gamble than choose Ellis. He had a very good NFLPA game that was essential due to his lack of competition at Hampton. for me my choice is the guy that did it every Saturday in the SEC.

I'd be happy with either. I just prefer Jenkins.

The problem with Jarvis Jenkins is that he lacks the athleticism of the other DE prospects in this year's draft. That makes Jenkins a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect at best. Look at at Jenkins numbers at the combine and they don't hold a candle to an elite athlete like Watt. Did you realize that in addition to that eye-popping 6.88 3 cone, Watt had a 37 inch vertical?? Now that's explosiveness.

Even Wilfork, an NT was an elite athlete for his size. Back at Miami just for fun they'd have Wilfork drop back in coverage and run CB drills, and the scary thing was that he didn't look lost doing them. A more recent example of an athletic giant who became a Patriot is Sebastian Vollmer.

 

[PATSNUTme]

If there is no DE's that are worth a #17 pick, why take one there. If there is a DE who would be a future Pro Bowler and the Patriots have to move up 6-7 spots to do it and they have a willing trading partner, then this is the year.

Stockpiling draft picks is great but some year you have to use that capital. So moving up to take Jordon or Watt could be worth it. Heyward could be there at #28 if we can't get either of those 2.

If we took Smith at #17 and Heyward at #28 I'd be happy. If we took Jordon in a trade up and then an OT/OG later I'd be happy with that.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The problem with Jarvis Jenkins is that he lacks the athleticism of the other DE prospects in this year's draft. That makes Jenkins a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect at best. Look at at Jenkins numbers at the combine and they don't hold a candle to an elite athlete like Watt. Did you realize that in addition to that eye-popping 6.88 3 cone, Watt had a 37 inch vertical?? Now that's explosiveness.

Even Wilfork, an NT was an elite athlete for his size. Back at Miami just for fun they'd have Wilfork drop back in coverage and run CB drills, and the scary thing was that he didn't look lost doing them. A more recent example of an athletic giant who became a Patriot is Sebastian Vollmer.

That post was based on the presumption that we draft two front line starters. I was referring to to a post by Belichick fan. One being Watt,Wilkerson or Heyward etc. At pick 60 or 74 I proposed to grab another DT/DE 34/43 hybrid in Jenkins. So basically I want 1 athletic DE and 1 powerful DT/DE that can get the push and can get in the backfield if called upon. Jenkins isn't getting you many sacks anytime soon. He is creating opportunities for everyone else. The same thing he has done at Clemson for D Bowers, Ricky Sapp and Devin Taylor the last few years.

He's not going to blow up any combines or win any track awards. He just a stalwart player that brings his lunch pail every day like Warren. Again I'm looking for depth, versatility and eventual replacement for Warren with this kid. Not to take over for Seymour. That would be a guy like Watt or Jordan. I feel like Jenkins is a very safe pick.

 

[IllegalContact]

The problem with Jarvis Jenkins is that he lacks the athleticism of the other DE prospects in this year's draft. That makes Jenkins a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect at best. Look at at Jenkins numbers at the combine and they don't hold a candle to an elite athlete like Watt. Did you realize that in addition to that eye-popping 6.88 3 cone, Watt had a 37 inch vertical?? Now that's explosiveness.

Even Wilfork, an NT was an elite athlete for his size. Back at Miami just for fun they'd have Wilfork drop back in coverage and run CB drills, and the scary thing was that he didn't look lost doing them. A more recent example of an athletic giant who became a Patriot is Sebastian Vollmer.

stamina is also a problem for jenkins

 

[bucky]

"The Number One Priority IS Defensive End"

Really? Did DE lose us the last 3 playoff games?

Actually, now that you mentioned it, our DEs and OLBs could have done a whole lot more to contribute. Like, for example, put some pressure on the QB. Or in the absence of a pass rush, you'd think maybe they could get their hands in the air and try to bat down some of those easy short throws. I went through that game and counted how many times our DL, OLBs, and blitzing ILBs put their hands in the air while pass rushing. I think it happened 3 times and Vince did it twice. And there were plenty of opportunities to knock down balls.

 

[cstjohn17]

Posters here have asked for a passrushing OLB every year since Belichick arrived. That may come or not. It may come in the first or not.

Belichick DEFINTELY understands the need to draft top defensive linemen. Who is acceptable to you as a DE? Is Wilkerson at 17 OK if ther rest are gone?

Bored, reading too many profiles.

Kerrigan is still my favorite, big, slow but productive. Another player that is interesting at #27 or #33 is John Houston from Georgia. He is too short and pretty one dimensional but is disruptive, 30+ tackles for a loss last year, 20+ the year before, those are great numbers and all were in the SEC.

Sideline Scouting - Justin Houston Scouting Report

Maybe the first three picks could look like Pouncey, Houston, Heyward. Use the rest of the draft to get a RB and additional depth everywhere.

These guys may not be superstarts but should be solid or better starters for a long time.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Bored, reading too many profiles.

Kerrigan is still my favorite, big, slow but productive. Another player that is interesting at #27 or #33 is John Houston from Georgia. He is too short and pretty one dimensional but is disruptive, 30+ tackles for a loss last year, 20+ the year before, those are great numbers and all were in the SEC.

Sideline Scouting - Justin Houston Scouting Report

Maybe the first three picks could look like Pouncey, Houston, Heyward. Use the rest of the draft to get a RB and additional depth everywhere.

These guys may not be superstarts but should be solid or better starters for a long time.

I'm not so good at guessing whom BB might pick, but I think I have refined my guessing at whom he won't be as excited about ... at least in the early going. Let's just say those three discourage me because I can't see what they do well enough to project them as upgrades for any player currently on the NE roster at comparable costs.