The Number One Priority IS Defensive End

[dryheat44]

Carriker was actually pretty decent once he got in a 3-4 in Washington

Exactly. It shows that you can take a talented player, try to shoehorn him into a spot that doesn't suit him, and waste a Top 12 pick. If he got drafted by the Steelers or Patriots, he might be a Pro Bowler by now. I don't know what kind of coaching he's getting in Washington, but at least he has a chance to be a good player.

Regardless, as high as I was on Carriker coming out (he was my #1 target), Watt seems to be more athletic and have a higher motor. I think he's a safe pick. What's his floor? A bigger Mike Wright that can play more snaps without wearing down?

 

[Defsoul]

I would love to see the Patriots pass on J.J. Watt (even if it took a trade up), just to see this board explode. The man crush for this guy is getting ridiculous...

 

[Steve1iron]

I agree that DE is number 1 priority. We NEED to get either JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan. Anything less will be unacceptable. If we need to move up a few spots to get one of these guys, then do it.

Rest of draft will be pure gravy after we pick up stud at DE.

 

[BelichickFan]

As I've said before, I kind of want two DE in the first 3 rounds. We have - none - that I want to count on right now.

Brace has some potential. Tiny may be back to his old self but a 30 year old DE coming off season ending hip surgery gives me doubt. Deaderick ? Love ? Weston ? Backups.

My perfect draft would be something like :

1a - Watt
1b - Pouncey
2a - Watkins
2b - Jenkins

Then you can take whatever positions you like as I've fixed the interior OL and DE. Although I do think we'd have to trade up a little from #28 for Pouncey.

 

[patchick]

The latest DRAFTEK consensus mock has NINE front seven defensive players being drafted in the first 16 picks. We will have what's left if we don't move up. We need to understand what this base case means to us.

Yes, almost all of us would draft Watt. Some would trade up if there is a reasonable offer.

However, it is getting less and less likely that Watt will slip. As far as trade partners, we need to trade with one the teams that want to draft a quarterback, an OT, or a corner. There will certainly be lots of teams wanting one of the defensive players before 17.

I suspect that we will have the choice of Costonzo, Kerrigan or Wilkerson at 17. This is not a bad choice of talent at 17. It seems that we could wait and get Heyward or Paea later (or Ballard as some have us drafting at 28).

While many here might choose Kerrigan (and a fine choice he is), I suspect that, for Belichick, DE's have a much higher value at this point in the draft because they don't need a year of training at a new position.

I would think that Belichick would take Wilkerson if Watt is gone and look to take one of the OLB's at 28 (perhaps Kerrigan or Reed) or even wait until 33.

This looks about right to me. Sure, there's the chance of a run on sketchy QBs or maybe OTs -- but counting on that isn't much of a draft strategy. You have to be prepared for this likely scenario, and if it comes around pick your poison.

 

[patchick]

Phil Taylor ~ if he checks out.

Kenrick Ellis ~ if he checks out.

I don't think there's any "checking out" on these guys when it comes to the first round. Arrest records aside, a first-round pick absolutely must show good FOOTBALL CHARACTER. If you're investing heavily in a guy, setting him up in a position of influence in your rookie class, etc., he has to have a good approach to the game & job of football.

So whatever position #17 plays, he has to be:

- A hard worker
- Coachable
- Focused on football
- Respected by teammates and coaches

And Taylor and Ellis are clearly not that.

Showing up out of shape year after year? Check, check.
Getting kicked off your team? Check, check.
Bristling at hard coaching? Check, check.
Getting suspended from your second team? Check on Ellis.

I agree that both players have first-round talent, but the Patriots simply can't draft them there.

 

[townes]

I'm thinking Taylor makes more sense and move Wilfork to End. Taylor could end up being Ted Washington or Kris Jenkins. If they like Wilkerson more i'm fine with that but the bottom line for me with first rounder's is always to get the All Pro quality player, so if they project Watt, Wilkerson, Taylor, Castonzo, Carimi, Kerrigsan or others to be that playert then i'd rather have the great player than address considered primary need first.People screamed about McCourty but they were right taking the best talent available, despite a greater need at OLB.

 

[dryheat44]

I'm thinking Taylor makes more sense and move Wilfork to End. Taylor could end up being Ted Washington or Kris Jenkins. If they like Wilkerson more i'm fine with that but the bottom line for me with first rounder's is always to get the All Pro quality player, so if they project Watt, Wilkerson, Taylor, Castonzo, Carimi, Kerrigsan or others to be that playert then i'd rather have the great player than address considered primary need first.People screamed about McCourty but they were right taking the best talent available, despite a greater need at OLB.

Unless we get Haloti Ngata, I'm never going to be in favor of moving Wilfork to end on a regular basis. It doesn't make much sense to move a pro bowler NT to the outside to accomodate a rookie.

 

[townes]

Unless we get Haloti Ngata, I'm never going to be in favor of moving Wilfork to end on a regular basis. It doesn't make much sense to move a pro bowler NT to the outside to accomodate a rookie.

I agree with Wilfork, he's a pro bowl DL not just a pro bowl NT. If I thought it was a matter of displacing Wilfork I wouldn't do it, I just don't think that's the case. Wilfork is a real problem for the tall OT's and i think he wreaks more havoc against them than he can being double teamed by interior OL on every play. I t simply comes down to how dominant a player the Patriots think Taylor can be.

 

[Metaphors]

As I've said before, I kind of want two DE in the first 3 rounds. We have - none - that I want to count on right now.

Brace has some potential. Tiny may be back to his old self but a 30 year old DE coming off season ending hip surgery gives me doubt. Deaderick ? Love ? Weston ? Backups.

I'm not so sure. Look at what is already on the roster on the DL:

Base
NT Wilfork 6'2", 340
DE Warren 6'5", 300
DE Stroud 6'6", 310
DE Brace 6'3", 330

Sub
DT Pryor 6'1", 310
DT Wright 6'4", 295

Backups
NT Love 6'1", 310 (Wilfork)
DE Deaderick 6'4", 305 (Warren)
DE Weston 6'5", 315 (Brace/Stroud)
DT Richard 6'4", 290 (Wright)

Before the Stroud signing, there was a natural home for a top pick replacing GWarren. Now I'm not sure the urgency is there. Stroud and Warren aren't long-term answers, but they both have a couple of productive years left if they aren't forced to take every snap.

Belichick has been pretty consistent with getting taller/heftier DEs in the base 3-4. If Wilkerson grades out well with the Pats scouts, he would fit the bill. He just seems to be rising too far, too fast without playing any games. Jenkins is another good fit physically if he proves he is athletic enough and can give consistent effort.

Watt and Jordan are a different physical makeup. Not better or worse, just different. Either could certainly displace Wright on the roster, but you don't do that with a top pick. To justify getting either of them, I think they need to prove them can stay on the field by playing a variety of roles. Certainly possible and I would be interested in seeing Jordan line up all over the Pats front 7, but still risky.

Unfortunately I see all of the players mentioned (Watt, Jordan, Wilkerson, Jenkins) going before the Pats are willing to draft them. I think the Stroud signing is an acknowledgement of that possibility.

So to me, the best match of priority and opportunity is OLB. Considering the lost of Neal and likely loss of Kaczur without any attempt to sign replacements, I wouldn't be surprised if you see multiple higher picks used on the OL. Not my choice since in general I don't like the OL candidates in this draft class. Carimi and Boling seem like good fits, but I would be nervous about plugging in just about anyone else.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm not so sure. Look at what is already on the roster on the DL:

Base
NT Wilfork 6'2", 340
DE Warren 6'5", 300
DE Stroud 6'6", 310
DE Brace 6'3", 330

Sub
DT Pryor 6'1", 310
DT Wright 6'4", 295

Backups
NT Love 6'1", 310 (Wilfork)
DE Deaderick 6'4", 305 (Warren)
DE Weston 6'5", 315 (Brace/Stroud)
DT Richard 6'4", 290 (Wright)

There's no doubt we have a ton of quantity. But unless Tiny makes it back to the player he was there is no top quality starter there (other than Vince at NT). Maybe Bill is fine with rotating big bodies and, if so, DE goes from "#1 Need" to "No Need" because, again, the quantity of playable guys is unquestioned. But there isn't a DE on that list that I feel really good about.

 

[IllegalContact]

The latest DRAFTEK consensus mock has NINE front seven defensive players being drafted in the first 16 picks. We will have what's left if we don't move up. We need to understand what this base case means to us.

means about as much as the notion that cameron jordan will be that much better than christian ballard or allen bailey.......it is all perception and whether that guy is really going to be better playing in the NFL.

there are certain gimmies that come along....marcell dareus much like suh last year.

what did brandon graham (picked 13th last year) achieve last year that cunningham (picked 53rd) did not? brandon graham was the next lamarr woodley? guess not

what did rolando mcclain (8) do that brandon spikes (62) did not?

 

[Patriot Missile]

There's no doubt we have a ton of quantity. But unless Tiny makes it back to the player he was there is no top quality starter there (other than Vince at NT). Maybe Bill is fine with rotating big bodies and, if so, DE goes from "#1 Need" to "No Need" because, again, the quantity of playable guys is unquestioned. But there isn't a DE on that list that I feel really good about.

I'm with you on this one. I think someone like Jarvis Jenkins makes sense in round 2 or early 3. He's got versatility to play DT and DE in a pinch. I see him as Warrens replacement a couple of years down the road. Excellent depth.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm with you on this one. I think someone like Jarvis Jenkins makes sense in round 2 or early 3. He's got versatility to play DT and DE in a pinch. I see him as Warrens replacement a couple of years down the road. Excellent depth.

if the pats are going to go after someone like jenkins late in round 2, may as well grab kenrick ellis instead.

I just think wilkerson has the value late in the first round.......the only thing that dareus and fairley have over him are that they played in the SEC

 

[JoeShmoe]

"The Number One Priority IS Defensive End"

Really? Did DE lose us the last 3 playoff games? Didn't we finish 14-2 with our group of DE's, many of who were injured. Don't we have Ty Warren coming back?

The number one priority for this team for the next 5 years is keeping Tom Brady upright and healthy, and giving him a run game that gives the O balance - that means finding upgrades across the whole OL bar Vollmer (if we lose Mankins)

I just dont get all this man love for a DE when we have a pretty good group, youth and depth, sure if a top prospect falls to us then fine but it isnt the number one need on the team IMHO. Wonder what you'll all be saying next year with an interior line of Connoly, Koppen and Wendell...poor old Tom wont be off his a**e

 

[patriotscpfc]

Just because you say 3-4 DE is the number one need, doesn't mean it actually is.

I'm perfectly happy with a rotation of Brace, Wright, Warren and Warren.

3-4 OLB who can do it all is the #1 need.

 

[Snake Eyes]

"The Number One Priority IS Defensive End"

Really? Did DE lose us the last 3 playoff games? Didn't we finish 14-2 with our group of DE's, many of who were injured. Don't we have Ty Warren coming back?

The number one priority for this team for the next 5 years is keeping Tom Brady upright and healthy, and giving him a run game that gives the O balance - that means finding upgrades across the whole OL bar Vollmer (if we lose Mankins)

I just dont get all this man love for a DE when we have a pretty good group, youth and depth, sure if a top prospect falls to us then fine but it isnt the number one need on the team IMHO. Wonder what you'll all be saying next year with an interior line of Connoly, Koppen and Wendell...poor old Tom wont be off his a**e

Yes, with Brady battered and broken we won't accomplish much, he's the franchise and we need to protect him.

I'd actually be ok with trading back a bit in the first and grab Pouncey, Watkins, Hankerson, and K.Ellis with our first 4 picks.

 

[mgteich]

Brace - is a backup who is improving
Wright - Will he play another game? How many games until his next concussion?
T Warren - Personally, I believe that he will be back at 100% from his surgery.
G Warren - is an UFA and likely to playing for some else this year.
Stround - not even worth your mention

Yes, I am fine with T. Warren, Wilfork, Stroud and Brace as an OK defensive line. I believe that we have needed an upgrade since the day Seymour was summarily booted out.

My BOTTOM LINE is that the DL could be as good as last year in 2011 without an addition. HOWEVER, we could use an upgrade and a future starter at DE.

FINALLY, this draft is the meeting of need with opportunity. We have an opportunity to add 2-3 players to the front seven of the future in one the best class of defensive front seven folks in years. I don't think that we will waste any of our top 4 picks on mediocre RB's and WR's.

And yes, it good and well to think that we should draft Jenkins at 60. The reality is that he may or may not be there. Is there any other 3-4 DE that will be there from 40-60? We wold need to think that there are 3-4 to think that Jenkins will last until 60.

Just because you say 3-4 DE is the number one need, doesn't mean it actually is.

I'm perfectly happy with a rotation of Brace, Wright, Warren and Warren.

3-4 OLB who can do it all is the #1 need.

 

[patchick]

"The Number One Priority IS Defensive End"

Really? Did DE lose us the last 3 playoff games? Didn't we finish 14-2 with our group of DE's, many of who were injured. Don't we have Ty Warren coming back?

The number one priority for this team for the next 5 years is keeping Tom Brady upright and healthy, and giving him a run game that gives the O balance - that means finding upgrades across the whole OL bar Vollmer (if we lose Mankins)

I just dont get all this man love for a DE when we have a pretty good group, youth and depth, sure if a top prospect falls to us then fine but it isnt the number one need on the team IMHO. Wonder what you'll all be saying next year with an interior line of Connoly, Koppen and Wendell...poor old Tom wont be off his a**e

Maybe we should distinguish roster priorities from draft priorities.

I totally agree that the interior OL has to be addressed, but IMO it doesn't make sense to focus on the first round for that purpose. You could totally remake the line with something like Watkins or Ijalana at 33, Boling or Carpenter at 60, and Fusco at 92. But if your first round was, say, Pouncey & Watkins, you've pretty much passed on the rare chance to nab a legit 5-tech DL.

 

[Patriot Missile]

"The Number One Priority IS Defensive End"

Really? Did DE lose us the last 3 playoff games? Didn't we finish 14-2 with our group of DE's, many of who were injured. Don't we have Ty Warren coming back?

The number one priority for this team for the next 5 years is keeping Tom Brady upright and healthy, and giving him a run game that gives the O balance - that means finding upgrades across the whole OL bar Vollmer (if we lose Mankins)

I just dont get all this man love for a DE when we have a pretty good group, youth and depth, sure if a top prospect falls to us then fine but it isnt the number one need on the team IMHO. Wonder what you'll all be saying next year with an interior line of Connoly, Koppen and Wendell...poor old Tom wont be off his a**e

This has been beaten down like a drum. First off mankins will play for the franchise tag. The Patriots are good at finding talented lineman later in the draft. It is possible we go the way you mentioned. They may do something like Pouncey and Watkins shifting Volmer to left and send Light on his way packing. who knows.

Not having Defensive line depth, QB play and mistakes were the culprit in that game. Not the oline. They protected long enough, Brady couldn't break it down, the Wr's were ineffective while blanketed. The coaching was horrific. Come away with points on those first few drives minus the botched fake and we are dictating the tempo in that game. Not the other way around.

Watch Jet game 2. Wilfork clobbered Mangold the entire game. Why? We still had some remote sense of depth on the line and that went all out the window the last few games leading up to the Jets game. They also had a huge lead which dictates defensive tempo and what the offense is going to do.. Yes having Warren back will help. But I'm not about to bank on a guy coming back from hip surgery to pave the way for our defense this season. That's a 2 year healer right there. Has anyone heard anything from Wright regarding his concussions?

Again, I'm loading up on the D-line this year and hopefully picking up a 1st or 2nd next year and addressing the oline then. There are 2 true centers I have my eye on to replace Koppen. Certainly Pugh this year would be a nice practice squad player to evaluate.