So who in the Front 7 is a keeper for next season?

[RobertWeathers]

Inside Linebacker:

Fletcher, Dane
Guyton, Gary
Mayo, Jerod
Spikes, Brandon

Solid, solid unit IMO.

Fletcher seems like he'll has a pretty decent career ahead of him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Outside Linebacker:

Cunningham, Jermaine
Ninkovich, Rob
2011 NFL Draft Pick
2011 NFL Draft Pick

Add TBC and Eric Moore to this list but I agree. I'd like to see another player that can scream off the edge.

 

[ATippett56]

Add TBC and Eric Moore to this list but I agree. I'd like to see another player that can scream off the edge.

Nope! Tully Banta-Cain will turn 31 next season and Eric Moore will turn 30 next season. The youth movement progresses forward at the outside linebacker position. The highest defensive priority to upgrade next season will be the 3-4 outside linebacker position.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Nope! Tully Banta-Cain will turn 31 next season and Eric Moore will turn 30 next season. The youth movement progresses forward at the outside linebacker position. The highest defensive priority to upgrade next season will be the 3-4 outside linebacker position.

I don't disagree that OLB is important, but TBC and EM have proven to be productive players in this system (jury is still out on Moore but hes done well thus far). Besides OLBs in this defense play till their mid 30s.

I'm not convinced either Warren is with the team next year either. GW is a FA and the Pats still owe Ty another $18m.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Add TBC and Eric Moore to this list but I agree. I'd like to see another player that can scream off the edge.

I think they cut TBC and keep Moore and maybe look at a pure 3rd down OLB in the Freeney type mold (not sure who's out there)

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think they cut TBC and keep Moore and maybe look at a pure 3rd down OLB in the Freeney type mold (not sure who's out there)

Why? If he makes all his bonuses it's a deal averaging $4.75m a year. If he doesn't make the performance bonuses that goes down to $3.25 a year. Hes on the cheap.

SIGNING BONUS - $6 Million

BASE SALARIES ($6.9 Million)
2010: $800,000
2011: $2.3 Million
2012: $3.8 Million

WORKOUT BONUSES ($600,000)
2010: $200,000
2011: $200,000
2012: $200,000

INCENTIVE CLAUSES ($4.5 Million)
2010: $1.5 Million
2011: $1.5 Million
2012: $1.5 Million

What you see here is that the deal is actually for three years and $13.5 million ($4.5 million/year) with the chance, as we reported last week, for incentives to kick it up to $18 million and $6 million per year. Without knowing specifically what the incentive clauses call for, it's hard to say how real the $18 million figure is. "

 

[ATippett56]

I don't disagree that OLB is important, but TBC and EM have proven to be productive players in this system (jury is still out on Moore but hes done well thus far). Besides OLBs in this defense play till their mid 30s.

Adalius Thomas fizzled out at the age of 32. TBC can't set the edge with any consistency and is a liability against the run. Eric Moore is not a true 3-4 outside linebacker.

 

[p8ryts]

Fletcher isn't eligible for the practice squad. He's played in more than 9 games. Neither are Love or Deaderick.

White is a UFA. I hope the Pats sign him to an extension because he's be the clear leader of the special teams unit. Something we haven't had since Izzo left.

To be brutally honest.. I don't see TBC making the roster next year if the Pats draft another OLB, which I believe they will. He's just not been that good. Ninkovich has made huge leaps in his ability and I think is much more solid as an OLB than TBC. And Moore brings more to the table than TBC does.

The front 7 takes up 16-18 spots on the defensive side of the roster.

D-Line: Ty Warren, G. Warren, V. Wilfork, Pryor, Deaderick, Love, Brace
OLB: Cunningham, Moore, Ninkovich, PTBN
ILB: Mayo, Spikes, Guyton, Fletcher

ST: White*

Players outside looking in: Cohen, Wright, Weston, Richard, TBC

Now, the reason I list Wright where I do is because of his injury situation. The fact that it's been 6 weeks and he's not recovered doesn't bode well for a concussion. They are very tricky things.. He could recover and win his job back.. He could also never play another snap again.. OR, He could be the 17th player in the front 7 that the Pats keep.

Fletcher has been very good on special teams and has improved weekly when he's seen regular snaps..

I'm pretty much in agreement except for Wright. I like Brace and Love, I like Pryor but he could be the odd one out. Actually, I'm hoping we get somebody new in the draft that will just beat one of the current crop out of a job. I still think Fletcher can grow into a Bruschi. TBC is a liability against the run and I think he is a definite candidate for replacement, especially if the Pats are going to improve.

 

[ATippett56]

I'm not convinced either Warren is with the team next year either. GW is a FA and the Pats still owe Ty another $18m.

Ty Warren's cap hit next season is $5,878,950.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2010 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Gerard Warren is expendable.

Defensive Line:

Brace, Ron
Deaderick, Brandon
Love, Kyle
Pryor, Myron
Richard, Daryl
Warren, Ty
Weston, Kade
Wilfork, Vince
Wright, Mike

I seriously doubt the New England Patriots will carry more than 7 defensive lineman next season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Adalius Thomas fizzled out at the age of 32. TBC can't set the edge with any consistency and is a liability against the run.

OK thats one.

Pfifier- 36
Seau- 101
Mac- 34
Johnson- 32
Bru-36
Vrabes- 34
Cox-33

Eric Moore is not a true 3-4 outside linebacker.

Agreed. He puts his hands down and rushes the passer. No question.

My point is that for this defense to be successful, you don't need a LB to play 70 snaps a game. History tells us this. If the team finds one, great. If it doesn't it goes to a situational approach.

 

[ATippett56]

OK thats one.

Pfifier- 36
Seau- 101
Mac- 34
Johnson- 32
Bru-36
Vrabes- 34
Cox-33

Phifer - inside linebacker with the Pats
Seau - inside linebacker with the Pats
Bruschi - inside linebacker
Johnson - inside linebacker
Cox - inside linebacker with the Pats

I'm looking for three down outside linebackers who fit the 3-4 scheme.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ty Warren's cap hit next season is $5,878,950.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2010 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Yep. I misspoke. They owe him $10.2m over the next three years which is very manageable.

His cap numbers over the next three years are in the $5.5m to $5.9m which are a bit high. Who knows.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Phifer - inside linebacker with the Pats
Seau - inside linebacker with the Pats
Bruschi - inside linebacker
Johnson - inside linebacker
Cox - inside linebacker with the Pats

Point being is that, just like Willie and Vrable, they played into their 30s. You are coming off like any defensive player who is on the wrong side of 30 should be jettisoned.

I'm looking for three down outside linebackers who fit the 3-4 scheme.

Good luck. BB has drafted 4 in 10 years and 3 are no longer with the club.

 

[ATippett56]

OK thats one.

Rosevelt Colvin was finished at the age of 31. Adalius Thomas was finished at the age of 32. Mike Vrabel was cut at the age of 33. Willie McGinest was the fourth pick overall in the 1994 NFL Draft, so one expects greatness from a top ten draft pick.

 

[mgteich]

WHERE WE ARE
7 defensive linemen seems right, although we used to carry 6. You list those who are signed for 2011 and don't have Richard or Weston stepping up. In essense, you list the status quo since G. Warren isn't under contract. That is a reasonable starting place.

LOCKS OR ALMOST LOCKS
BRACE, Ty WARREN and WILFORK are all but locks. WRIGHT would be except for his injury history. I have him penciled in.

THE REST
DEADERICK - I expect/hope him to be upgraded by a draftee
PRYOR - a situation player who should always finds a spot as a #7 DL
LOVE - the "best" we have as a NT backup (personally I think he's aweful in that role)

G WARREN
I'd re-sign him in a sec to compete in camp. I wouldn't be surprised to see the four W's as our top four DL's next year. I think that he has done a fine job. If nothing else, I would pencil him in as a backup NT.

BOTTOM LINE
If we re-sign G. Warren, Ty Warren is back strong, and Wright is back strong, we would have a unit stronger than this year's fine unit with the 4 W's plus Pryor and Brace as backups and role players. I am certainly open to a draftee and both Deaderick and Love moving on.

Defensive Line:

Brace, Ron
Deaderick, Brandon
Love, Kyle
Pryor, Myron
Warren, Ty
Wilfork, Vince
Wright, Mike

 

[ATippett56]

Good luck. BB has drafted 4 in 10 years and 3 are no longer with the club.

The New England Patriots also selected an inside linebacker in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft and an inside linebacker in the second round of the 2010 NFL Draft. Bet you never saw that coming back in 2007! With BB, never say never when it comes to the NFL Draft.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that these are our four ILB's plus a STer (White or replacement).

Inside Linebacker:

Fletcher, Dane
Guyton, Gary
Mayo, Jerod
Spikes, Brandon

 

[RobertWeathers]

Rosevelt Colvin was finished at the age of 31. Adalius Thomas was finished at the age of 32. Mike Vrabel was cut at the age of 33. Willie McGinest was the fourth pick overall in the 1994 NFL Draft, so one expects greatness from a top ten draft pick.

I'd argue Colvin. He developed nasty arthritis in his hip and suffered a knee injury. Had he stayed healthy there would have been a spot on this defense for him,but your point in valid. He just didn't make it.

I refuse to include Thomas in the discussion. Too man issues there although the fact that he hasn't been picked up by anyone would mean that hes lost his burst or is too proud to take the veteran minimum deal or has completely lost his desire to play because he is financially set (my theory).

There is more to the story with Vrabel. Rather than ask him to take a pay cut, out of respect they traded him. At 34, he proved in 09 that he could still play the position. Now not so much.

Same with Willie. BB wanted him to stay but RAC gave him $12m over 3 years. At 35, he played well in 06. Besides, draft status has nothing to do with playing time on a BB team. But, your point is taken, BB would rather get rid of a player a year early than a year too late.

With all that said, TBC meets none of the criteria you or I mention. He still produced according to the role they have him in and his contract is financially agreeable to the team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The New England Patriots also selected an inside linebacker in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft and an inside linebacker in the second round of the 2010 NFL Draft. Bet you never saw that coming back in 2007! With BB, never say never when it comes to the NFL Draft.

Saw Mayo in 08.

Didn't see the Spikes pick in a million years.
:bricks:

 

[ATippett56]

7 defensive linemen seems right.

I agree especially with the injuries on the defensive line this year.

You list those who are signed for 2011 and don't have Richard or Weston stepping up. In essense, you list the status quo since G. Warren isn't under contract. That is a reasonable starting place.

I followed up in another post with regard to Richard and Weston.

LOCKS OR ALMOST LOCKS
BRACE, Ty WARREN and WILFORK are all but locks. WRIGHT would be except for his injury history. I have him penciled in.

I agree with Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Brace.

THE REST
DEADERICK - I expect/hope him to be upgraded by a draftee
PRYOR - a situation player who should always finds a spot as a #7 DL
LOVE - the "best" we have as a NT backup (personally I think he's aweful in that role)

Deaderick showed more in his rookie season than Brace. Pryor could be back with a good camp. If Love is not the backup nose tackle next season, then is it Brace?

G WARREN
I'd re-sign him in a sec to compete in camp. I wouldn't be surprised to see the four W's as our top four DL's next year. I think that he has done a fine job. If nothing else, I would pencil him in as a backup NT.

I would not doubt the New England Patriots will draft a defensive lineman in the first two rounds of the 2011 NFL Draft. Therefore, Gerard Warren is expendable especially since Richard and Weston should have recovered from their respective 2010 injuries.

BOTTOM LINE
If we re-sign G. Warren, Ty Warren is back strong, and Wright is back strong, we would have a unit stronger than this year's fine unit with the 4 W's plus Pryor and Brace as backups and role players. I am certainly open to a draftee and both Deaderick and Love moving on.

2011 training camp should be competitive with regard to the New England Patriots defensive line.