Haley
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.Taking a dive to me means intentionally losing a game.
If playing Matt Cassel means intentionally losing a game, the Chiefs have been taking a dive all season long.
Taking a dive to me means intentionally losing a game.
If playing Matt Cassel means intentionally losing a game, the Chiefs have been taking a dive all season long.
Taking a dive to me means intentionally losing a game.
If playing Matt Cassel means intentionally losing a game, the Chiefs have been taking a dive all season long.
If you play Sorgi instead of a healthy Peyton Manning you are taking a dive.
If you play Cassel instead of a healthy Tom Brady you are taking a dive.
If you play Painter instead of a healthy Tom Brady you are taking a dive.
If you play Edelman instead of a healthy Wes Welker you are taking a dive.
If Matt Cassel is the best QB on the roster playing him is not taking a dive.
I respectfully disagree. Taking a dive means making sure you lose. Bringing in a second string QB is not the equivalent.
If Cassel did throw the ball away intentionally, that would be different. I wasn't there and these other folks were. I can't speak to this so I'll take other poster's word on this. But my point is that simply playing Cassel instead of Brady isn't tossing the game. However, this alleged self-sabotage at the buzzer would be. Anyone have pics/video?
I looked for it and can't find it.
As I remember it -- the seeding was clear even before the game -- lose and definitely play the Jaguars. Win and *maybe* play the Steelers. Instead of starting Brady, we start Cassell. We were down by a fair bit early, and then came roaring from behind to score a TD in the final minutes/seconds, but we needed 2 to tie.
Cassell, again IIRC, rolls out to his right. The receiver is relatively open (not wide open) near the sideline. Cassell throws it substantially (not absurdly, but substantially) over his head.
There is ALOT of discussion after the game about whether it's intentional. BB denies it / avoids it. Cassell does the same.
Soon as I saw the throw I knew what he'd done, and why, and heartily approved. It was the same reason he started Cassell to begin with. In addition to not really wanting to win to begin with to risk a worse matchup, converting the 2 points at that point meant overtime. Who the hell wants to play overtime in a meaningless game the week before the plyaoffs start (Pats did NOT have the bye that year)?
Throwing away that pass, and the game, was clearly and obviously the correct thing to do.
Imagine that the Jets lose out, and the Dolphins win 3 straight while the Pats clinch the #1 seed one week 16. The Pats would then host the Dolphins in week 17, where if the Dolphins win, the Jets miss the playoffs. Would BB lay down for the Dolphins so the Jets miss the playoffs?
Imagine that the Jets lose out, and the Dolphins win 3 straight while the Pats clinch the #1 seed one week 16. The Pats would then host the Dolphins in week 17, where if the Dolphins win, the Jets miss the playoffs. Would BB lay down for the Dolphins so the Jets miss the playoffs?
I respectfully disagree. Taking a dive means making sure you lose. Bringing in a second string QB is not the equivalent.
?
Did you SEE the play at the end to lose the game to the Dolphins? I mean, it's a two point conversion to tie. Throwing it away or doing ANYTHING other than putting out 1,000% effort to tie is complletely unacceptable., under any normal circumstance
And Cassell, swear to God, throws it into the second row. He kinda sorta tried to make it look good, but it was a completely uncatchable ball. You can't tell me that he wasn't specifically told by BB to throw it away so we'd get the plyaoff matchup we wanted (versus Jags instead of the eventually SB-winning Steelers).
So yes, in my book, BB ***intentionally*** lost an NFL game.
And why the hell wouldn't he? He'd be a moron to fight to win a game to get a WORSE playoff matchup.
Removing your Starting QB, Starting WRs, Starting RB, and a some of your starting offensive lineman for an entire game is taking a dive. They sat pretty much everyone who was the slightest bit sore.
Belichick would never dishonor the game.
But Hoyer does need some work.
And still, they nearly won. . . .
Removing your Starting QB, Starting WRs, Starting RB, and a some of your starting offensive lineman for an entire game is taking a dive. They sat pretty much everyone who was the slightest bit sore.
I am not seeing that many roster differences. Maybe you can point them out for me.
game 17
Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
M. Cassel 11/20 168 2 0
T. Brady 3/8 37 1 1
Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
P. Pass 9 26 0 11
M. Cassel 5 13 0 9
K. Faulk 6 12 0 5
H. Evans 6 7 0 3
T. Brady 1 2 0 2
T. Dwight 1 -5 0 -5
Receiving REC YDS TD LG
A. Davis 2 47 0 36
B. Watson 2 39 1 30
B. Childress 3 32 0 21
T. Dwight 2 26 1 17
H. Evans 2 24 0 19
D. Branch 2 19 1 11T
D. Givens 1 18 0 18
Fumbles FUM LOST REC YDS
M. Cassel 2 0 1 0
Kicking FG LG XP PTS
A. Vinatieri 2/2 49 1/1 7
D. Flutie 0/0 0 1/1 1
Punting NO AVG I20 LG
J. Miller 4 37.0 1 50
Kickoff Return NO AVG TD LG
A. Davis 3 36 0 65
T. Dwight 2 33 0 38
P. Pass 1 21 0 21
Punt Returns NO AVG TD LG
T. Dwight 1 6 0 6
Defense T-A SCK INT FF
M. Chatham 8-0 1.0 0 0
E. Hobbs 7-0 0.0 0 0
H. Poteat 6-1 0.0 0 0
J. Sanders 5-0 0.0 0 0
B. Childress 4-0 0.0 0 0
M. Wright 4-0 0.0 0 0
T. Banta-Cain 3-2 0.5 0 0
M. Stone 3-0 0.0 0 0
M. Vrabel 3-2 0.0 0 0
T. Warren 3-1 0.5 0 0
C. Brown 2-0 0.0 0 0
L. Izzo 2-0 0.0 0 0
D. Klecko 2-0 0.0 0 0
R. Seymour 2-0 0.0 0 0
V. Wilfork 2-0 0.0 0 0
M. Beisel 1-1 0.0 0 0
M. Hill 1-1 0.0 0 0
W. McGinest 1-0 0.0 0 0
D. Davis 0-1 0.0 0 0
E. Wilson 0-2 0.0 0 0
game 16
Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
T. Brady 18/29 185 2 1
D. Flutie 1/1 2 0 0
Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
C. Dillon 26 77 2 10
K. Faulk 10 38 0 8
H. Evans 6 16 0 9
P. Pass 3 14 0 7
T. Brady 3 7 0 3
D. Flutie 2 -1 0 0
Receiving REC YDS TD LG
D. Branch 4 69 0 22
B. Watson 2 37 0 23
T. Brown 3 31 0 13
D. Givens 2 21 0 12
K. Faulk 4 19 0 8
C. Fauria 1 5 0 5
M. Vrabel 2 3 2 2T
P. Pass 1 2 0 2
Fumbles FUM LOST REC YDS
D. Flutie 1 0 1 0
H. Poteat 0 0 0 0
J. Sanders 0 0 1 0
R. Seymour 0 0 1 0
Kicking FG LG XP PTS
A. Vinatieri 1/1 26 4/4 7
Punting NO AVG I20 LG
J. Miller 2 39.5 0 46
Kickoff Returns NO AVG TD LG
K. Faulk 1 16 0 16
B. Johnson 1 23 0 23
P. Pass 1 10 0 10
B. Watson 1 1 0 1
Punt Returns NO AVG TD LG
T. Brown 1 7 0 7
T. Dwight 1 13 0 13
Defense T-A SCK INT FF
R. Seymour 5-0 1.0 0 0
E. Hobbs 4-0 0.0 0 0
M. Vrabel 4-2 1.0 0 0
M. Beisel 3-1 0.0 0 0
H. Poteat 3-1 1.0 0 1
C. Brown 1-1 0.0 0 0
T. Bruschi 1-2 0.0 0 0
R. Colvin 1-1 0.5 0 0
J. Green 1-1 0.0 0 0
A. Hawkins 1-0 0.0 0 0
L. Izzo 1-0 0.0 0 0
W. McGinest 0-2 0.5 0 0
A. Samuel 0-0 0.0 1 0
V. Wilfork 0-1 0.0 0 0
E. Wilson 0-1 0.0 0 0
Edit: Actually, after viewing the video located here (at the tail end of this 2 minute video):
NFL Game Center: Miami Dolphins at New England Patriots - 2005 Week 17
this doesn't look like an intentional throw away to me and certainly wasn't thrown into the 2nd row. It was thrown close to the sideline of the endzone. Are we talking about the same game??
26 rushes seems like a very busy day, and resting a starting QB with no week off isn't the same as losing on purpose.Brady was pulled.
Dillion didn't run
seems normal to me. and why use Vrabel to catch 2 TDs, if determined to lose?Fauria didn't catch a pass
He absolutely did. Cassel was asked after the game if he screwed up the pass on purpose. I distinctly remember watching the post-game interview and that question being asked. Cassel, of course, denied it - with a smile.He did it once (against the Dolphins)....earth remained intact....
Miami Dolphins at New England Patriots - January 1st, 2006 - Pro-Football-Reference.com