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Week 8: Vikings at Pats pre-game thread


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Little discussion? It seems to me that this game has been one of the main stories on NFL network for the past few days. It's been talked about a lot for the following reason.

1. Brett Favre
2. Randy Moss return to Foxboro
3. VIKES VS PATS:rocker:
4. Brett Favre
Point is, almost all the discussion seems to be Brett Favre's ankle, his streak, Childress' comments, Moss' return, etc. I'm seeing relatively little 'Pats run defense vs Minnesota running game', 'Vikings secondary vs Pats tight ends', etc. In other words - and maybe it's just me - but I'm mostly seeing, reading, and hearing the superficial stuff and almost no 'nuts and bolts' pre-game analysis.
 
I completely agree and was thinking this earlier today. It is as if everyone has written this game off as a fait accompli. I feel like I'm alone in thinking we could actually lose this one, possibly for no other reason than we are collectively underestimating the enemy.

Farve is a Jekell/Hyde player and unfortunately, we tend to face Jekell while everyone else in the NFL seems to face "INT-maker" Hyde. Judging by many of the comments and articles, people are assuming Farve will throw INTs and hand us the game on a platter. This is not a winning strategy. I'd rather someone make the argument for how we could actually force these INTs rather than hearing, "oh, Favre just lobs up grenades all the time, just close your eyes and count on it".

This could actually be a difficult game for us. The Vikings have the #6 defense YPG, and unlike the Chargers, they have made this statistic while facing many tough opponents. The Vikings offense has many weapons at its disposal and our main hope is for Favre to be incapable of getting the ball to its destination. It is sounding to me like we are placing the success of this game in the hands of our pass rush. That makes me a bit nervous about this.

C'mon people ... talk me down ... I need to see the light and find the faith!!
 
Favre never does the Pats any favors. Never. That may be the only thing that makes me nervous about this game. Oh, that and Randy might decide to be Vintage Randy for the first time all season. And the third most talked about Vikings offensive player just happens to be the most dominant running back in the NFL today. Halloween wasn't kind to us the last time our Pats played on that holiday. So yeah, I'm kind of nervous about this one as well.

But we have Tom Brady, we have Bill Belichick, and we have home field advantage. I'll always like our chances of victory with that combination.
 
There is a world series going on?

Outside of the Golden Gate area and spur wearing Texas cowboys, who really cares?
I put that in there just to see if anybody was paying attention.

Since I did that I should probably put some grasshopper quote in here, but that would certainly derail this thread even further than that MLB reference just did.
 
Point is, almost all the discussion seems to be Brett Favre's ankle, his streak, Childress' comments, Moss' return, etc. I'm seeing relatively little 'Pats run defense vs Minnesota running game', 'Vikings secondary vs Pats tight ends', etc. In other words - and maybe it's just me - but I'm mostly seeing, reading, and hearing the superficial stuff and almost no 'nuts and bolts' pre-game analysis.

That is true my friend, although they did a good review of the game on Playbook AFC.
 
Video: Reiss' 3 keys for Pats vs. Vikes - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Mike Reiss has a quick 'three keys to the game':
1. Passing offense. Look for the Patriots to spread the field to soften up the Vikings’ sturdy front seven. Of course, that means protection on the edges -- with left tackle Matt Light, right tackle Sebastian Vollmer against edge rushers Jared Allen and company -- will be key.

2. Put the ball in Brett Favre's hands. When the Vikings get their running game going with Adrian Peterson, they’re that much tougher. Making Minnesota one-dimensional -- especially considering the Pats will be facing either a hobbled Favre or backup Tarvaris Jackson -- will make life much easier on the New England defense.

3. Tackling. When you face a hard-charging runner like Peterson and an electrifying receiver like Percy Harvin, bringing them down after initial contact becomes all the more important.
 
This could actually be a difficult game for us. The Vikings have the #6 defense YPG, and unlike the Chargers, they have made this statistic while facing many tough opponents. The Vikings offense has many weapons at its disposal and our main hope is for Favre to be incapable of getting the ball to its destination. It is sounding to me like we are placing the success of this game in the hands of our pass rush. That makes me a bit nervous about this.
Here's a column from a Minnesota newspaper that may be of interest.

Should the Vikings blitz more? | StarTribune.com

A year ago, the Vikings led the NFL in sacks with 48. Through six games this season, the Vikings have only six sacks, which is tied for 30th. Only Tampa Bay with five has collected fewer sacks.

The Vikings did not sack Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers in a 28-24 loss on Sunday night after sacking him 14 times in two meetings combined last season.

The Vikings continue to point to the way teams employ different protection schemes and quick-hitting passes to offset the pass rush. Kevin Seifert of ESPN.com had an interesting stat in his postgame report via the network's stats department.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Vikings rushed four or fewer players on 27 of Rodgers 37 dropbacks.

"At times they weren't even rushing," Rodgers told Seifert. "They were more content with kind of standing at the line of scrimmage and really jumping. When you can slow down two great rushers like that, that's a good thing for us."

The article then goes on to look for reasons why this is happening.

"You say we weren't getting a lot of pass rush but there wasn't a lot of deep dropbacks," Williams said. "I don't think he held the ball more than three seconds maybe five times. He was getting the ball out. We were trying to push as much as we could and then get our hands up."

The Vikings scheme relies on their front four to be able to get pressure on the quarterback without needing to blitz as often. That's especially important with their issues at cornerback.

Rookie Chris Cook came back from a knee injury Sunday and struggled before being pulled from the game. Coach Brad Childress said he was pleased with the play of Frank Walker in relief, but Walker was not even playing football until the Vikings signed him as a free agent two weeks ago.

Williams again pointed to teams using a quick passing attack to neutralize their pass rush and put pressure on their secondary.

"Teams are going [to do that] until we fix the problem," he said. "You've just got to get your hands up and get as much push as you can and just tackle. If he makes a three-yard route, we've got to tackle him for a three-yard route and not let it turn into a seven or eight or even 30-yard gain."

Williams was asked if the defense should blitz more to help get pressure on the quarterback.

"We could but I don't think it would help," he said. "With the ball coming out, that's just going to get eight guys in the backfield and less guys trying to get him down. Me personally, I wouldn't. But I'm not the defensive coordinator."
 
Thanks, jmt57, very interesting article. At least it implies Brady should have some time in the pocket. But conversely it implies some heavy pass coverage. Still, I expect this would play into NE strengths given our many varied offensive weapons.

However I am most concerned with our pass rush. I think it will be the pivotal part of the game. Either we force Favre to make these turnovers or we don't. I'd like to think our rush is capable of this but I don't know much about the Vikings current O line vs our D.

There aren't likely to be dropped laterals or untackled players politely handing over the ball to us this time. If we don't pressure Favre into error and/or properly engage our offense, we could be looking at an ugly Halloween scare.
 
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I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't think this in an automatic W for the Pats.

I'll also miss the entire game trick-or-treating with my kids, so I'll have to DVR it and pretend I'm watching it live when we get home.

  • Favre is injured, but the whole thing's been overplayed.
  • Moss doesn't suck, as much as some here want to believe he does. It will take some killer D stop him getting at least one TD against his old team.
  • Adrian Peterson...
  • Percy Harvin...
  • Jared Allen...

This is NO gimme. It feels winnable because we've beat some tough teams this year, but I really don't think I could put any money down on this one.

I did notice one of NFLN's fantasy trends was to bench the Minnesota D and Start the Pats D this week. That's at least moderately interesting, imo.
 
A couple of comments on Sunday's game by Tedy Bruschi.

Bruschi's Breakdown: New England Patriots' matchup with Minnesota Vikings brings several storylines - ESPN Boston

Mike: In three games with the Vikings, Randy Moss has 12 catches for 166 yards and two touchdowns. Does this look like a player who is slowing down to you?

Tedy: I don't think it's a case of him slowing down as much as him trying to figure things out. Now, with three weeks under his belt, he's more acclimated with the offense and I think we'll see him featured a bit. He's already affected defenses, with coverage rolled toward Randy, and tight end Visanthe Shiancoe and receiver Percy Harvin being open more. Harvin has really benefited from Moss because he is back in his natural position in the slot -- he's a Welker-esque type of guy. So you have Randy on one side, Bernard Berrian on the other, Harvin in the slot, then Shiancoe in the middle, and it's a group that presents a lot of problems for a defense. Randy is affecting coverage and opening things up for those guys.

Mike: If you're Bill Belichick, how are you matching up against Moss? Both cornerbacks, Devin McCourty and Kyle Arrington, spoke this week about how they learned a lot from facing Moss in practice.

Tedy: I think what you're looking for is physical play at the line of scrimmage. I think you want to jam him at the line of scrimmage and get him as discouraged as possible. I like McCourty in that matchup. He's more of a physical corner, and he's also very quick. He isn't afraid to mix it up.

Mike: The Vikings' offensive line looks like a strong run-blocking group but one that might struggle at times in pass protection. Then you have the tight end in Shiancoe.

Tedy: They almost ran for 200 yards last week. This is a big line. They will come in and it won't be hard to find them. The Patriots, along the defensive front, have a big challenge ahead of them. Shiancoe is one of those tight ends who, when you get him in the red area, he's a threat. He's just another weapon.
 
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Is it just me, or does it seem a bit strange about how very little discussion there is about Sunday's game? A couple months ago this was seen as not only one of the Pats most difficult games of the year, but one of the biggest NFL games in 2010 - and that was before Randy Moss was traded from one team to the other.

What's going on? Is it because
  • About 90% of the media are predicting the Pats will win
  • Very few in the media are talking about the game itself
  • People are talking about Favre's ankle instead
  • People are talking about Favre-Sterger instead
  • People are talking about whatever Chilly just said instead
  • People assume the Pats will win because they won last week
  • People assume the Vikings will lose since they lost last week
  • People assume the Pats will win because 5-1 > 2-4
  • People are watching the World Series (j/k, I know I'm the only one)


Anyways, anybody have some analysis, thoughts, insight, opinion, keys to the game, etc.? We're about 19 hours from kickoff and all I know the Pats are facing a team that went to the conference championship last year and has some very talented players on both offense and defense. It just seems a little presumptuous to assume this is a win for the Pats.

i for one am concerned about the vikings because most media and people speculations have pats winning because favre isnt playing well, will throw INTs etc. he is capable of playing of those games like he did vs us when with the jets in 2008. On defense, maybe they can be thrown on but our own offense is still finding its feet without moss . I wouldnt be surprised at all if there was an upset .
EDIT:Add the fact that the last game shown here in the bay area was the jet game and we know how that turned out :(
 
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If we can keep up with Adrian Peterson then we should win this game. We won't be able to win if we can't stop them from moving the chains.
 
I am nervous for AP, Moss and Harvin..they can burn us terribly if Farve decides to play a great game..i don't think he will however


If we are 30th in the league once again tomorrow on 3rd down..we are screwed IMO
 
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Which Favre the 2009 rejuvenated Favre or the 2010 and past playoff blizzard of picks Favre? Uh, oh. It's Halloween.
 
Stop AP + man-to-man on Harvin + double cover + Randy + blitz with LBS = Win
 
The same MN newspaper lists their five keys to the game.

Five Keys to the Vikings-Patriots game | StarTribune.com

Here are some snippets from the above column.

1. Must Win? ... "There was an odd feeling of tension surrounding the Vikings as they prepared for this game and a loss would be a major setback for a team that had its sights set on making a Super Bowl run when training camp opened in late July."

2. Favre Factor ... "The Patriots aren't a big blitzing team but applying pressure on an immobile Favre or Jackson, who has struggled in such situations, makes sense."

3. By ground or by air? ... "Considering the Vikings' situation at quarterback, sticking with the Peterson plan might be a good idea. The only issue is that the Patriots pass defense is ranked 30th in the NFL and starting safety Patrick Chung is dealing with a knee injury. ... The Patriots figure to provide safety help to either corner Kyle Arrington or rookie Devin McCourty in order to help against Moss. This could open up room for Peterson or if the safeties do bite on the play action could create opportunities for Moss."

4. Looking for pressure ... "(Jared) Allen saw plenty of one-on-one matchups last Sunday against Packers left tackle Chad Clifton, who always plays him tough. He will be going against the Patriots' Matt Light."

5. Welcome back II? ... Moss returns to Gillette but no analysis or opinion on the effect.
 
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If the combo of Favre and Moss beat the Patriots tomorrow, it will be worse than losing to the Jets IMO
 
If the combo of Favre and Moss beat the Patriots tomorrow, it will be worse than losing to the Jets IMO

I strongly disagree that it would be worse than losing the Jets... I can't handle losing to the Jets.

Also, the Pats need to be ready when Harvin is lined up in the backfield because he has taken a couple of handoffs for some nice damage.
 
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