Pats select OLB Shawn Crable with 78th overall pick

[captain stone]

Wasn't Dimitroff hired as Atlanta's GM after the '07 season?

And just as I'm not letting Bill off the hook for not fixing the RB problem (in the Harvey Unger thread), I'm not letting him off the hook for the lousy drafts of '04, '06, '07 & '08 either. Pioli (& Dimitroff) may have been giving him bad advice, but Bill still had the final word. Besides, neither Pioli nor Dimitroff suggested to Bill that he draft Ron Brace instead of Connor Barwin.

 

[MaineMan]

Wasn't Dimitroff hired as Atlanta's GM after the '07 season?

And just as I'm not letting Bill off the hook for not fixing the RB problem (in the Harvey Unger thread), I'm not letting him off the hook for the lousy drafts of '04, '06, '07 & '08 either. Pioli (& Dimitroff) may have been giving him bad advice, but Bill still had the final word. Besides, neither Pioli nor Dimitroff suggested to Bill that he draft Ron Brace instead of Connor Barwin.

"Final word" means that BB is "officially" responsible, on paper, as the head guy. But he can't possibly have thoroughly scouted each and every prospect in every draft by himself. As the head guy, he has to trust the observations and recommendations of his team, including the scouts and Pioli. Obviously, sometimes that trust has been misplaced. You're perfectly free to blame him for taking shi**y advice, but I don't think that's being very realistic.

Anyway, in '04 we got Wilfork, Watson (who was good for awhile), Marquise Hill (RIP) with the first three picks, and Randall Gay (who was okay for awhile) as a UDFA. Guss Scott (SS) was the only remaining top 100 pick and there weren't a whole lot of stars to "miss" after that - unless you count Jared Allen (#126), Michael Turner (#154) and, oops, Welker, who went undrafted, too. In '06, we got Maroney, Gostkowski and a bunch of decent reserve players out of a draft class that pretty much sucked after the first round, especially for WRs (though Brandon Marshall came out of that draft - at #119, just after Gostkowski, and Miles Austin was passed on 255 times). Again, you're free to blame everything on BB, but, when the store is out of steak by the time you get there, you take the hamburger because you gotta eat.

My point being that I'm really tired of hearing how BB effed up these drafts as if he did it all on his own and was always picking in nearly perfect circumstances from very deep draft classes. He gets a big share for picks not working out better, sure. But to put all the blame on him is just silly.

 

[BelizePats]

No one is blaming only BB for the franchise's draft choices.
I have been looking at the years from 2006 to 2008, a 3 year span. The Pats have a reputation for hitting on their first rounders and by and large we have. But, if you look at the critical picks from rounds 2 through 4 during that 3 year stretch, the Pats have been nothing short of brutal.
2006
Round 2 Chad Jackson
Round 3 David Thomas
Round 4 Garrett Mills
Round 4 Ghostkowsi (winner)

2007
Round 2 Traded with 7th rounder for Wes Welker (winner)
Round 3 Traded to Oakland for their 2008 3rd, which turned out to be Shawn Crable
Round 4 Traded to Oakland for Randy Moss
Round 4 Kareem Brown

2008
Round 2 Terrence Wheatley
Round 3 Shawn Crable
Round 3 Kevin O'Connell
Round 4 Jonathon Wilhite

I don't care what kind of a homer you are, this was Bobby Greiresque in its consistency to miss. If 2009 and 2010 2nd through 4ths were to have continued in this vain, we'd be in deep ***** by 2011/12.







Read more at: Meet the Patriots 2008 Draft Class

 

[MaineMan]

No one is blaming only BB for the franchise's draft choices.
I have been looking at the years from 2006 to 2008, a 3 year span. The Pats have a reputation for hitting on their first rounders and by and large we have. But, if you look at the critical picks from rounds 2 through 4 during that 3 year stretch, the Pats have been nothing short of brutal.
2006
Round 2 Chad Jackson
Round 3 David Thomas
Round 4 Garrett Mills
Round 4 Ghostkowsi (winner)

2007
Round 2 Traded with 7th rounder for Wes Welker (winner)
Round 3 Traded to Oakland for their 2008 3rd, which turned out to be Shawn Crable
Round 4 Traded to Oakland for Randy Moss
Round 4 Kareem Brown

2008
Round 2 Terrence Wheatley
Round 3 Shawn Crable
Round 3 Kevin O'Connell
Round 4 Jonathon Wilhite

I don't care what kind of a homer you are, this was Bobby Greiresque in its consistency to miss. If 2009 and 2010 2nd through 4ths were to have continued in this vain, we'd be in deep ***** by 2011/12.







Read more at: Meet the Patriots 2008 Draft Class

The thing is, it's incomplete analysis to simply look at the guys we took who didn't work out. You also have to look at the guys we didn't take who were still available when we picked and who also filled a position of need at the time, plus the depth of that class at each position. And, you also have to look at what teams may have traded ahead of us to snag a guy who we might have targeted. You also have to look at how the other teams did for that draft to keep things in perspective.

There were 32 WRs drafted in rounds 2-7 in 2006 (Santonio Holmes went to the Steelers in the 1st round). Those 32 picks produced Sinorice Moss and Greg Jennings (in the 2nd), Jason Avant and Brandon Marshall (in the 4th) and Marques Colston (at the end of the 7th) and 26 guys who never made a contribution. So, we traded up to get the (relatively) highly-regarded Chad Jackson before another team did. It's not like the odds were hugely in our favor to find somebody better later (worse than 1 in 6).

 

[patchick]

What can you say? It was a lousy stretch of drafting, period. But the (very) early returns on the past two drafts are extremely positive, so it's hardly a "throw the bums out" situation. (The Pats could easily start five '09 picks this year and get major contributions from several others -- pretty amazing.)

 

[BradyFTW!]

No one is blaming only BB for the franchise's draft choices.
I have been looking at the years from 2006 to 2008, a 3 year span. The Pats have a reputation for hitting on their first rounders and by and large we have. But, if you look at the critical picks from rounds 2 through 4 during that 3 year stretch, the Pats have been nothing short of brutal.
2006
Round 2 Chad Jackson
Round 3 David Thomas
Round 4 Garrett Mills
Round 4 Ghostkowsi (winner)

2007
Round 2 Traded with 7th rounder for Wes Welker (winner)
Round 3 Traded to Oakland for their 2008 3rd, which turned out to be Shawn Crable
Round 4 Traded to Oakland for Randy Moss
Round 4 Kareem Brown

2008
Round 2 Terrence Wheatley
Round 3 Shawn Crable
Round 3 Kevin O'Connell
Round 4 Jonathon Wilhite

I don't care what kind of a homer you are, this was Bobby Greiresque in its consistency to miss. If 2009 and 2010 2nd through 4ths were to have continued in this vain, we'd be in deep ***** by 2011/12.







Read more at: Meet the Patriots 2008 Draft Class

You conveniently left a certain pro bowl safety off of that list...

 

[chicowalker]

Obviously he didn't work out, but I don't think an injury bust is at all the same as a guy who turns out not to be a fit, has a bad attitude, doesn't develop or simply can't play well enough.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

really sucks that crable and adalius failed to live up to expectations. i dont know how you can honestly go into camp with TBC, ninkovich, woods, cunningham, murrell and expect improvement regarding the pass rush.

 

[captain stone]

The thing is, it's incomplete analysis to simply look at the guys we took who didn't work out. You also have to look at the guys we didn't take who were still available when we picked and who also filled a position of need at the time, plus the depth of that class at each position.

We have indeed been doing just that.

 

[BelizePats]

I agree that this is a incomplete analysis to some degree but its still fairly black and white. Rounds 2, 3 and 4 are crucial to building depth and that 3 year stretch was about as bad as can be imagined. The early results of 2009 and 10 make it pretty clear that that bad stretch is over.
Not sure who the Pro Bowl DB we drafted in 06,07 or 08 in the second through 4th rounds is? Let me know as I did not intend to leave anyone off.
Respects,

Rich

 

[IllegalContact]

The thing is, it's incomplete analysis to simply look at the guys we took who didn't work out. You also have to look at the guys we didn't take who were still available when we picked and who also filled a position of need at the time, plus the depth of that class at each position. And, you also have to look at what teams may have traded ahead of us to snag a guy who we might have targeted. You also have to look at how the other teams did for that draft to keep things in perspective.

There were 32 WRs drafted in rounds 2-7 in 2006 (Santonio Holmes went to the Steelers in the 1st round). Those 32 picks produced Sinorice Moss and Greg Jennings (in the 2nd), Jason Avant and Brandon Marshall (in the 4th) and Marques Colston (at the end of the 7th) and 26 guys who never made a contribution. So, we traded up to get the (relatively) highly-regarded Chad Jackson before another team did. It's not like the odds were hugely in our favor to find somebody better later (worse than 1 in 6).

like taking marquise hill instead of darnell dockett?

if you picked ANY other WR drafted in the 2nd round, you would have gotten more out of him.

you're analysis is just as incomplete and your perspective just as skewed

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

"Final word" means that BB is "officially" responsible, on paper, as the head guy. But he can't possibly have thoroughly scouted each and every prospect in every draft by himself. As the head guy, he has to trust the observations and recommendations of his team, including the scouts and Pioli. Obviously, sometimes that trust has been misplaced. You're perfectly free to blame him for taking shi**y advice, but I don't think that's being very realistic.

Anyway, in '04 we got Wilfork, Watson (who was good for awhile), Marquise Hill (RIP) with the first three picks, and Randall Gay (who was okay for awhile) as a UDFA. Guss Scott (SS) was the only remaining top 100 pick and there weren't a whole lot of stars to "miss" after that - unless you count Jared Allen (#126), Michael Turner (#154) and, oops, Welker, who went undrafted, too. In '06, we got Maroney, Gostkowski and a bunch of decent reserve players out of a draft class that pretty much sucked after the first round, especially for WRs (though Brandon Marshall came out of that draft - at #119, just after Gostkowski, and Miles Austin was passed on 255 times). Again, you're free to blame everything on BB, but, when the store is out of steak by the time you get there, you take the hamburger because you gotta eat.

My point being that I'm really tired of hearing how BB effed up these drafts as if he did it all on his own and was always picking in nearly perfect circumstances from very deep draft classes. He gets a big share for picks not working out better, sure. But to put all the blame on him is just silly.

Hey Mr Maine Man

This is an erudite and well-spoken post. I cannot agree more.

 

[MaineMan]

like taking marquise hill instead of darnell dockett?

if you picked ANY other WR drafted in the 2nd round, you would have gotten more out of him.

you're analysis is just as incomplete and your perspective just as skewed

Playing the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game isn't analysis.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Playing the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game isn't analysis.

I like the woulda coulda shoulda game. It allows you to evaluate drafting acumen. Some picks are totally out of the blue; for instance there is no reason to roast the Patriots for not taking Marques Coleston but there is every right to roast the Patriots for (say) taking Chris Canty while Sam Madison was still on the board (one of the worst whiff in Patriots history with the worst being Kliff Kingsury).

 

[SanAngeloState]

I love playing the woulda, coulda, shoulda game.

Kliff Kingsbury was the biggest whiff ever? Wasn't he a 7th round pick? Who did we whiff on?

 

[MaineMan]

I like the woulda coulda shoulda game. It allows you to evaluate drafting acumen. Some picks are totally out of the blue; for instance there is no reason to roast the Patriots for not taking Marques Coleston but there is every right to roast the Patriots for (say) taking Chris Canty while Sam Madison was still on the board (one of the worst whiff in Patriots history with the worst being Kliff Kingsury).

I like playing woulda-coulda-shoulda, too.

In 2006, instead of trading our #52 (and #75, IIRC) for GB's #36 to take Chad Jackson, we coulda stayed where we were and taken Greg Jennings. Sounds simple, yes? Ahh! But this is where the dominoes of possibility then begin to fall in several other directions.

Let's start with the possibility that GB woulda taken Jennings with their #36 anyway, or Sinorice Moss, who was also still available (or Daryn Colledge, who they took with their #47). Either way, now Chad Jackson is available to ATL, OAK, PHL, DET, ARZ, CHI, NO and the Giants. The Giants took Sinorice Moss at #44, so maybe they woulda taken Jackson instead. That is, unless Al Davis had jumped on Jackson first at #38, thereby allowing LB Thomas Howard to slide to someone else.

So, there's a distinct possibility that none of the 2nd round WRs are available when we pick at #52. What then? Based on what positions we actually filled later in the draft, let's say we went with one of the TEs at #52. Let's say Scheffler. Now, for Denver picking at #61, Scheffler is no longer on the board. Sure, maybe they simply go with one of the next TE's that actually went off the board - Pope (ARZ at #72) or Thomas (NE at #86). However, Denver's next pick after #61 is #119 (where they took Brandon Marshall). That's about 60 other players that they might have taken instead (including one or two who, in reality, were picked before #61, BUT, in this alternate past, might have fallen to them unexpectedly).

Anyway, the point is that "woulda, coulda, shoulda" doesn't stop with making a simple one-for-one substitution which woulda made everything better for us. Any change to what we did would certainly have generated a cascade of changes for every other team. That, coming back around, would have altered the landscape for our subsequent 2006 picks. It might even have affected the order of finish in the 2006 season and the subsequent 2007 draft. For instance, let's say Oakland takes Jackson at #38 in 2006 and then they trade Randy Moss to some team other than NE during 2006 training camp.

Oops! Maybe that seemingly little, isolated change that woulda seemed better in the short run would actually have made everything much, much worse in the long run.

Seriously, didn't any of you guys see "Back to the Future"?

 

[paulwu]

Seriously, didn't any of you guys see "Back to the Future"?

it's the butterfly effect

 

[SanAngeloState]

We screwed up with Crable. I wonder if somewhere a scout is being fired or at least put out in a doghouse. Maybe made to sleep outside when he's on the road instead of in a cheap flea bag motel.

You've got to punish these guys when they screw up like this.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Some good points by maine man.

I actually felt Pioli was holding Belichick back since it was documented that they both had to agree on a player before drafting a guy. Maybe the 06-08 drafts resemble that, as does the selection of Tyson Jackson third overall.

I think Belichick has done a much better job in 09 and 10 with the draft, and I dont think its a coincidence.

 

[Off The Grid]

I have been looking at the years from 2006 to 2008, a 3 year span. The Pats have a reputation for hitting on their first rounders and by and large we have. But, if you look at the critical picks from rounds 2 through 4 during that 3 year stretch, the Pats have been nothing short of brutal.
2006
Round 2 Chad Jackson
Round 3 David Thomas
Round 4 Garrett Mills
Round 4 Ghostkowsi (winner)

2007
Round 2 Traded with 7th rounder for Wes Welker (winner)
Round 3 Traded to Oakland for their 2008 3rd, which turned out to be Shawn Crable
Round 4 Traded to Oakland for Randy Moss
Round 4 Kareem Brown

2008
Round 2 Terrence Wheatley
Round 3 Shawn Crable
Round 3 Kevin O'Connell
Round 4 Jonathon Wilhite

I don't care what kind of a homer you are, this was Bobby Greiresque in its consistency to miss. If 2009 and 2010 2nd through 4ths were to have continued in this vain, we'd be in deep ***** by 2011/12.







Read more at: Meet the Patriots 2008 Draft Class

BRUTAL, INDEED!!