Pats select OLB Shawn Crable with 78th overall pick

[Off The Grid]

You conveniently left a certain pro bowl safety off of that list...

Merriweather was a 1st Rounder, and the post was about 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounders...genius.

 

[Off The Grid]

What can you say? It was a lousy stretch of drafting, period. But the (very) early returns on the past two drafts are extremely positive...

(The Pats could easily start five '09 picks this year and get major contributions from several others -- pretty amazing.)

:rocker::rocker::rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

"Final word" means that BB is "officially" responsible, on paper, as the head guy. But he can't possibly have thoroughly scouted each and every prospect in every draft by himself. As the head guy, he has to trust the observations and recommendations of his team, including the scouts and Pioli. Obviously, sometimes that trust has been misplaced. You're perfectly free to blame him for taking shi**y advice, but I don't think that's being very realistic.

Anyway, in '04 we got Wilfork, Watson (who was good for awhile), Marquise Hill (RIP) with the first three picks, and Randall Gay (who was okay for awhile) as a UDFA. Guss Scott (SS) was the only remaining top 100 pick and there weren't a whole lot of stars to "miss" after that - unless you count Jared Allen (#126), Michael Turner (#154) and, oops, Welker, who went undrafted, too. In '06, we got Maroney, Gostkowski and a bunch of decent reserve players out of a draft class that pretty much sucked after the first round, especially for WRs (though Brandon Marshall came out of that draft - at #119, just after Gostkowski, and Miles Austin was passed on 255 times). Again, you're free to blame everything on BB, but, when the store is out of steak by the time you get there, you take the hamburger because you gotta eat.

My point being that I'm really tired of hearing how BB effed up these drafts as if he did it all on his own and was always picking in nearly perfect circumstances from very deep draft classes. He gets a big share for picks not working out better, sure. But to put all the blame on him is just silly.

BRAVO. Well said.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

No one is blaming only BB for the franchise's draft choices.
I have been looking at the years from 2006 to 2008, a 3 year span. The Pats have a reputation for hitting on their first rounders and by and large we have. But, if you look at the critical picks from rounds 2 through 4 during that 3 year stretch, the Pats have been nothing short of brutal.
2006
Round 2 Chad Jackson
Round 3 David Thomas
Round 4 Garrett Mills
Round 4 Ghostkowsi (winner)

2007
Round 2 Traded with 7th rounder for Wes Welker (winner)
Round 3 Traded to Oakland for their 2008 3rd, which turned out to be Shawn Crable
Round 4 Traded to Oakland for Randy Moss
Round 4 Kareem Brown

2008
Round 2 Terrence Wheatley
Round 3 Shawn Crable
Round 3 Kevin O'Connell
Round 4 Jonathon Wilhite

I don't care what kind of a homer you are, this was Bobby Greiresque in its consistency to miss. If 2009 and 2010 2nd through 4ths were to have continued in this vain, we'd be in deep ***** by 2011/12.







Read more at: Meet the Patriots 2008 Draft Class

For all the morons that can't figure out why the Pats haven't won a super bowl since 2004, here it is.

I don't blame them for 2007 because 2 picks went towards Moss and Welker. By the way, doesn't anybody else find it odd that Welker required more in compensation than Moss?

Another move that bothers me happened before the '04 draft where the Pats traded a 2nd round pick for Corey Dillon. Sure, he gave the Pats a record breaking season which helped them win another super bowl. But for a team always preaching a "long term plan", didn't think this one out clearly. There was a younger version of a RB that fit their style and his name was Steven Jackson (who was my only target for the Pats). Although it was a shock he dropped to 24, the Pats could've easily moved up from 32 and taken him over Ben Watson which was a ridiculous pick. They could've waited until after the 1st round to trade for Dillon.

In 2008, I could've believe they passed on Terrell Thomas for Terrance Wheatley. And the Kevin O'Connell pick was just pathetic.

 

[Off The Grid]

For all the morons that can't figure out why the Pats haven't won a super bowl since 2004, here it is.

I don't blame them for 2007 because 2 picks went towards Moss and Welker. By the way, doesn't anybody else find it odd that Welker required more in compensation than Moss?

Another move that bothers me happened before the '04 draft where the Pats traded a 2nd round pick for Corey Dillon. Sure, he gave the Pats a record breaking season which helped them win another super bowl. But for a team always preaching a "long term plan", didn't think this one out clearly. There was a younger version of a RB that fit their style and his name was Steven Jackson (who was my only target for the Pats). Although it was a shock he dropped to 24, the Pats could've easily moved up from 32 and taken him over Ben Watson which was a ridiculous pick. They could've waited until after the 1st round to trade for Dillon.

In 2008, I could've believe they passed on Terrell Thomas for Terrance Wheatley. And the Kevin O'Connell pick was just pathetic.

Concur, concur, concur.

Again, I think Coach Bill II The Mad is the BEST...And I have no problem with a guy taking a smart chance. Furthermore, I recognize that MOST picks fail, even if you make them all WELL.

But SOME of those moves...were stupid the MOMENT they were made.

1 ~ O'Connell??? THAT pick was HORRIFYINGLY stupid.

2 ~ Maroney in the 1st Round in 2006. RB's are VASTLY overrated in the Drafts, in my view. In 2005, alone, the following guys were drafted, a year before Bill II dumped a pick on Maroney:

3rd ~ Frank Gore
4th ~ Marion Barber
4th ~ Brandon Jacobs
4th ~ Darren Sproles
UFA ~ Ryan Grant

3 ~ Jackson in the 2nd Round in 2006: WR's are even MORE overrated in the Draft, if you ask me: That very year saw Brandon Marshall go in the 4th...and Marquis Colston in the 7th. 2007 would bring James Jones + Mike Walker in the 3rd, and Steve Breaston in the 5th.

4 ~ And of course: The Deluge of Mediocre Tight Ends:

2002 #1 ~ Dan Graham, for God's sake.
2004 #1 ~ Ben Watson, for The Love of All that is Holy.

And others, but these two moves were ATROCITIES.

5 ~ And, of course: The 2nd for Dillon.

***

Again: DEMONSTRABLY stupid at the MOMENT those moves were MADE.

***

Ironically, I was stupid enough to actually FEAR the loss of Pioli!!

But the last two Drafts ~ even allowing for Coach Bill's continued infuriating neglect of OLB, as well as The Ron Brace Debacle!! ~ have been STUNNING improvements...And if he can finish the troika by hauling in Robert Quinn, and perhaps Marcell Dareus and/or Greg Romeus, if it isn't too much trouble...we could be set up for an EPIC Run!!

 

[MaineMan]

Concur, concur, concur.

Again, I think Coach Bill II The Mad is the BEST...And I have no problem with a guy taking a smart chance. Furthermore, I recognize that MOST picks fail, even if you make them all WELL.

But SOME of those moves...were stupid the MOMENT they were made.

1 ~ O'Connell??? THAT pick was HORRIFYINGLY stupid. -- Yeah, probably wasn't the year to even attempt to find a QB. Booty, Dixon, Ainge, Brennan, Woodson, Flynn and Brink (?!) were the QBs drafted after O'Connell.

2 ~ Maroney in the 1st Round in 2006. RB's are VASTLY overrated in the Drafts, in my view. In 2005, alone, the following guys were drafted, a year before Bill II dumped a pick on Maroney:

3rd ~ Frank Gore
4th ~ Marion Barber
4th ~ Brandon Jacobs
4th ~ Darren Sproles
UFA ~ Ryan Grant
--- In 2005, perhaps the Pats weren't in the market for an RB. They'd finished 2004 with Dillon and Faulk, the 6th-ranked ground game and a SB win. By the 2006 draft, we'd lost to Denver in the Divisional Round, Dillon had missed 4 games due to injury and the ground game had dropped to the bottom half of the league. In 2006, the Pats were back up to 12th in rushing yards, 4th in rushing TDs and 5th in rushing 1st downs with Dillon and Maroney splitting the bulk of the carries. By taking Maroney, though, we passed on Williams, Addai, MJD, Leon Washington, Jerious Norwood, Jerome Harrison and 7 JAGS. We did pick up Patrick Cobbs UDFA. If he stays healthy, Miami could bring him back to haunt us this season.


3 ~ Jackson in the 2nd Round in 2006: WR's are even MORE overrated in the Draft, if you ask me: That very year saw Brandon Marshall go in the 4th...and Marquis Colston in the 7th. 2007 would bring James Jones + Mike Walker in the 3rd, and Steve Breaston in the 5th. -- Not to mention Miles Autin, who went undrafted in 2006. IOW, 31 other teams passed on Marshal at least 2-3 times, and on Austin an average of six times. So their guys are all just as stupid as Belichick (and/or Pioli), right?

4 ~ And of course: The Deluge of Mediocre Tight Ends:

2002 #1 ~ Dan Graham, for God's sake.
2004 #1 ~ Ben Watson, for The Love of All that is Holy.
--- Graham was the Pats 4th leading receiver in '03 and '04, averaging 34 catches for 385 yds and 5 tds in 14 games per season. He was supplanted by Watson in '05 and in '06. In 2006, Watson was the team's 2nd leading receiver with 49 catches for 643 yds (better stats than Santonio Holmes, Greg Jennings, DEsmond Clark, Randy Moss, Donte Stallworth, etc.), though he only appeared in 13 games. Watson's catches and yardage were down a bit in '07 (only 12 games), but he still caught 6 of Brady's record 50 TDs.

And others, but these two moves were ATROCITIES.

5 ~ And, of course: The 2nd for Dillon.
--- In 2004, for the Pats, Dillon was the 4th best RB in the league. In '05, hew was injured a lot and in '06 he split carries with Maroney (and quit in March '07 rather than continue to share).

***

Again: DEMONSTRABLY stupid at the MOMENT those moves were MADE.

***

Ironically, I was stupid enough to actually FEAR the loss of Pioli!!

But the last two Drafts ~ even allowing for Coach Bill's continued infuriating neglect of OLB, as well as The Ron Brace Debacle!! ~ have been STUNNING improvements...And if he can finish the troika by hauling in Robert Quinn, and perhaps Marcell Dareus and/or Greg Romeus, if it isn't too much trouble...we could be set up for an EPIC Run!!

So, not sure that all of these moves were TOTALLY stupid, except the O'Connell pick. And it could be argued that taking a notoriously injury-prone CB with a 2nd was a worse idea, no matter how much a stud he was at Colorado (Wheatley).

 

[Off The Grid]

So, not sure that all of these moves were TOTALLY stupid, except the O'Connell pick. And it could be argued that taking a notoriously injury-prone CB with a 2nd was a worse idea, no matter how much a stud he was at Colorado (Wheatley).

It seems a bit contrary ~ and a waste of time ~ to roll out statistics that we all already know, and all of which support my points, by the way, and then pronounce that you're "not sure" that all of those moves were "TOTALLY" stupid:

1 ~ O'Connell was an awful move. DEMONSTRABLY.
2 ~ Maroney was an awful move. CLEARLY. And in 2005, despite your assertion, we clearly WERE in the market for an RB ~ or TWO!! ~ unless your idea is to wait until a guy drops DEAD before you draft his eventual replacement, which is evidently the case.
3 ~ Jackson was an awful move. Need I defend this statement??
4 ~ Burning 2 #1's on two mediocre Tight Ends was an awful move. CLEARLY. And Graham and Watson were the very DEFINITION of "mediocre", which could NOT be more obvious...except to YOU.
5 ~ Trading a 2nd Rounder for an aging Running Back ~ Dillon ~ with a million miles on him, attitude problems, and who turned 30 Week 6 of his first season with us is your idea of a GOOD move??

GOT it.

Also:

So their guys are all just as stupid as Belichick (and/or Pioli), right?

I guess you missed my Opening Statement, then?

Again, I think Coach Bill II The Mad is the BEST.

As I clearly stated that the MOVES were stupid, not the MAN...it's difficult to fathom how you could POSSIBLY have managed to misunderstand that.

Brilliant men make stupid moves all the time...as we have clearly shown with Belichick.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Concur, concur, concur.

Again, I think Coach Bill II The Mad is the BEST...And I have no problem with a guy taking a smart chance. Furthermore, I recognize that MOST picks fail, even if you make them all WELL.

But SOME of those moves...were stupid the MOMENT they were made.

1 ~ O'Connell??? THAT pick was HORRIFYINGLY stupid.

2 ~ Maroney in the 1st Round in 2006. RB's are VASTLY overrated in the Drafts, in my view. In 2005, alone, the following guys were drafted, a year before Bill II dumped a pick on Maroney:

3rd ~ Frank Gore
4th ~ Marion Barber
4th ~ Brandon Jacobs
4th ~ Darren Sproles
UFA ~ Ryan Grant

3 ~ Jackson in the 2nd Round in 2006: WR's are even MORE overrated in the Draft, if you ask me: That very year saw Brandon Marshall go in the 4th...and Marquis Colston in the 7th. 2007 would bring James Jones + Mike Walker in the 3rd, and Steve Breaston in the 5th.

4 ~ And of course: The Deluge of Mediocre Tight Ends:

2002 #1 ~ Dan Graham, for God's sake.
2004 #1 ~ Ben Watson, for The Love of All that is Holy.

And others, but these two moves were ATROCITIES.

5 ~ And, of course: The 2nd for Dillon.

***

Again: DEMONSTRABLY stupid at the MOMENT those moves were MADE.

***

Ironically, I was stupid enough to actually FEAR the loss of Pioli!!

But the last two Drafts ~ even allowing for Coach Bill's continued infuriating neglect of OLB, as well as The Ron Brace Debacle!! ~ have been STUNNING improvements...And if he can finish the troika by hauling in Robert Quinn, and perhaps Marcell Dareus and/or Greg Romeus, if it isn't too much trouble...we could be set up for an EPIC Run!!

We will trade that Raider pick for 3 number 2's which they will turn into 2 3rds, 2 5ths and a 1st rounder in 2014. Forget vRomeus vDareus. They won't pick them because they are the two players you want.


But seriously though, As much as many on this board wanted S Jackson you can't blame Bioli. Well sure you could. As far as Colston Gore,Jacobs Marshall etc, that's not a very fair argument. Every team in the NFL passed on them at least once if not 6 times like a certain QB we all know.

I'm kind of suprised some are taking shots at the Dillon trade. Any time a RB or any player for that matter, can make a impact like he did and help you win a Superbowl you would think you wouldn't regret the loss of a pick.

 

[MaineMan]

It seems a bit contrary ~ and a waste of time ~ to roll out statistics that we all already know, and all of which support my points, by the way, and then pronounce that you're "not sure" that all of those moves were "TOTALLY" stupid:

1 ~ O'Connell was an awful move. DEMONSTRABLY.
2 ~ Maroney was an awful move. CLEARLY. And in 2005, despite your assertion, we clearly WERE in the market for an RB ~ or TWO!! ~ unless your idea is to wait until a guy drops DEAD before you draft his eventual replacement, which is evidently the case.
3 ~ Jackson was an awful move. Need I defend this statement??
4 ~ Burning 2 #1's on two mediocre Tight Ends was an awful move. CLEARLY. And Graham and Watson were the very DEFINITION of "mediocre", which could NOT be more obvious...except to YOU.
5 ~ Trading a 2nd Rounder for an aging Running Back ~ Dillon ~ with a million miles on him, attitude problems, and who turned 30 Week 6 of his first season with us is your idea of a GOOD move??

GOT it.

Also:



I guess you missed my Opening Statement, then?

Again, I think Coach Bill II The Mad is the BEST.

As I clearly stated that the MOVES were stupid, not the MAN...it's difficult to fathom how you could POSSIBLY have managed to misunderstand that.

Brilliant men make stupid moves all the time...as we have clearly shown with Belichick.

You've made your point.

You are DEMONSTRABLY, CLEARLY, BY DEFINITION extremely vehement that your perception and judgment are fact and final and that there's no room for questions or grey areas. And, of course, any suggestion of context/circumstances that might be considered to soften your pronouncements are trivial and the purveyor of such irrelevant nonsense must be too effing dim to understand your unchallengeable brilliance.

Yes. I certainly get that. Thanks soooo much for setting me straight.

 

[Off The Grid]

You've made your point.

You are DEMONSTRABLY, CLEARLY, BY DEFINITION extremely vehement that your perception and judgment are fact and final and that there's no room for questions or grey areas. And, of course, any suggestion of context/circumstances that might be considered to soften your pronouncements are trivial and the purveyor of such irrelevant nonsense must be too effing dim to understand your unchallengeable brilliance.

Yes. I certainly get that. Thanks soooo much for setting me straight.

Thank YOU, Brother Maine!!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm just gonna crawl into the corner, tuck myself into the fetal position, and BLEED for awhile!! :singing:

 

[Off The Grid]

We will trade that Raider pick for 3 number 2's which they will turn into 2 3rds, 2 5ths and a 1st rounder in 2014. Forget vRomeus vDareus. They won't pick them because they are the two players you want.


But seriously though, As much as many on this board wanted S Jackson you can't blame Bioli. Well sure you could. As far as Colston Gore,Jacobs Marshall etc, that's not a very fair argument. Every team in the NFL passed on them at least once if not 6 times like a certain QB we all know.

I'm kind of suprised some are taking shots at the Dillon trade. Any time a RB or any player for that matter, can make a impact like he did and help you win a Superbowl you would think you wouldn't regret the loss of a pick.

That's fair.

But allow me to explain: my point wasn't that Coach Bill The Mad should've had ESP and seen in Colston, et cetera, that which others did NOT.

My point was that WRs, RBs, and QBs are attributed FAR more Draft Value ~ in my FAR Off the Grid opinion!! ~ than History justifies...And any GM that doesn't recognize that Disparity and ACT upon it...is culpable.

That does NOT mean Coach B isn't the BEST...as he clearly IS.

Regarding Dillon: Jackson was Brother Bale's idea, and a good one. MY style would've been to scoop up Late Round Scrappers like Turner or Ward, to supplement Antoine Smith and Kevin Faulk ~ who we'd already won 2 Rings with ~ and keep the 2nd Rounder for somebody more substantial...or even roll it forward for a 2005 1st Rounder!!

 

[captain stone]

Playing the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game isn't analysis.

Of course it is; not all of what makes analysis, but certainly part of what makes analysis.

 

[jacoob]

really a big boy.........

 

[MaineMan]

Of course it is; not all of what makes analysis, but certainly part of what makes analysis.

It's not really analysis if you're only willing to take it one layer deep. "We coulda just stayed where we were and taken Jennings instead of trading up for Jackson" is simplistic and ignores significant ripple effects. It's merely a fancy way of saying, "See! My 20/20 hindsight is smarter than Belichick was at the time!"

 

[SanAngeloState]

Bottom line is someone needs to be punished for making such a horrible pick as Crable. 3rd round pick never saw a down of action in regular season? WTF?

 

[patsfaninpa]

Bottom line is someone needs to be punished for making such a horrible pick as Crable. 3rd round pick never saw a down of action in regular season? WTF?

Who do you consider the best GM?

I'm curious to know. So, that I can go through his record and pick out the score of flops. Just like everyone else. D. Graham wasn't a bad pick at all. I guess some guys don't like Super Bowls. Ditto, a 2nd for Dillon. Maroney pick universally praised. Polian practically admitted he preferred him over Addai. Maroney hasn't performed as expected. But, I could bore you with about 75 rb's picked in the 1st round who did worse than Maroney.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Who do you consider the best GM?

I'm curious to know. So, that I can go through his record and pick out the score of flops. Just like everyone else. D. Graham wasn't a bad pick at all. I guess some guys don't like Super Bowls. Ditto, a 2nd for Dillon. Maroney pick universally praised. Polian practically admitted he preferred him over Addai. Maroney hasn't performed as expected. But, I could bore you with about 75 rb's picked in the 1st round who did worse than Maroney.

Baltimore picks pretty well. You can rail against the texas olb pick with the narcolepsy if you want, I didn't like that one.

Every GM screws up but to have drafted a guy with apparently no heart...how did they not figure that out pre draft? Crable apparently didn't even want to play.