No FAs please

[PatsChamp88]

I feel dumber for opening this thread.

Can't say I disagree

 

[RayClay]

The way these teams are spending like drunken sailors, there should be some nice affordable FAs left over, like those that fueled our best seasons.

Never rule anything out, play the hand as it goes.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Colts, Chargers, and Steelers build almost exclusively through the draft, and pick up bargain free agents to round out their roster. The Saints did the same thing. The Patriots used to operate this way but the MO (and expectations of the fanbase) changed somewhere around 2007.

Building through the draft is how you compete in the league, not through free agency. Trades and free agents can round out a roster but you need to develop your own talent.

It did? How many high-priced FAs have the Pats roped in in the last 5 years? Adalius Thomas and... who?

 

[Kontradiction]

No SanAngeloState please.

 

[TealSox]

Weren't the Colts built through the draft? So to say you can't build a team through the draft, is peaking on stupidity. And I'm sure no one is saying that a team is built through free agency, because I haven't seen the Redskins winning too many Conference Championships or Super Bowls despite signing big free agents like Haynesworth, Randle El, Santana Moss, Coles and Randy Thomas.

The way I see it... you build a team with a core of veterans that set the tone in the locker room via free agency, draft talented prospects to grow in the system and eventually replace the aging core of the team, sign free agents to fill in the gaps/needs and draft to keep the cycle going and get away for spending on free agents.

 

[Brady2Welker]

Need a complimentary mixture of both FA and the Draft to make good teams, see: Us a few years back.

We can still snag other key positions in FA with some of the other teams blowing up cap room on marquee players.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Last year the Pats had a very nice draft. But they struggled because no FAs they signed helped. BB was ridiculed from every fan, every media outlet about this. I promise you by the time of the season when we see the Patriots weaknesses people will look at FA (if nothing is done) and will point to that as one of the reasons for no improvement.

I really don't see how people here can expect rookies to save the defense. I'd love to be optimistic, but I think a lot of you folks who think this team is going somewhere because they might draft some rookies are setting yourselves up for dissapointment. I'm not blaming Bill per se for this FA, but there's gonna be little to no help coming to this team most likely.

Please folks, don't try selling me on bargain bin players. There's very few left worth anything.

 

[DW Toys]

Building through the draft is great, but you can't rely solely on it. There are ALWAYS going to be busts. I like getting proven talent for draft picks when the price is right. Boldin for a 3rd and a 6th/7th? Cromartie for a 3rd? I'm sorry but the chance that those picks ever amount to anything close to Boldin or Cromartie is extremely slim. The cap hell thing is overrated.

Bravo sir! Great post.
DW Toys

All you "build through the Draft" fans. Think this: 18% success rate in the whole NFL in each teams Draft that a player will amount to better than average or Pro Bowl caliber within THREE YEARS!!!. The other 82% will become roster fillers, serviceable back ups, or out of the league.

Count them, we have 14 holes and 8 Draft picks. If we hit a home run of 100% on our Draft, we are still six players short so we drag them off the leftover FA pile?

 

[DW Toys]

Need a complimentary mixture of both FA and the Draft to make good teams, see: Us a few years back.

We can still snag other key positions in FA with some of the other teams blowing up cap room on marquee players.

THINK 2009 N.O. SAINTS!!!!2007 Patriots as well.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Weren't the Colts built through the draft? So to say you can't build a team through the draft, is peaking on stupidity. And I'm sure no one is saying that a team is built through free agency, because I haven't seen the Redskins winning too many Conference Championships or Super Bowls despite signing big free agents like Haynesworth, Randle El, Santana Moss, Coles and Randy Thomas.

The way I see it... you build a team with a core of veterans that set the tone in the locker room via free agency, draft talented prospects to grow in the system and eventually replace the aging core of the team, sign free agents to fill in the gaps/needs and draft to keep the cycle going and get away for spending on free agents.

2009 SAINTS, 2007 Patriots. Well I guess you'd be wrong then.

We do not have the talent or core of veterans at this point.
DW Toys
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

The way these teams are spending like drunken sailors, there should be some nice affordable FAs left over, like those that fueled our best seasons.

Never rule anything out, play the hand as it goes.

Right now our hand is a 3 a 4 an 8 and all in mixed suits and none matching on the table....Give me three please!
DW Toys

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Woo! Ron Brace and Terrence Wheatley will save the day!

No chance ! I think Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Marquise Hill, Ben Watson, David Thomas, Guss Scott are the saviors

 

[DW Toys]

The Colts, Chargers, and Steelers build almost exclusively through the draft, and pick up bargain free agents to round out their roster. The Saints did the same thing. The Patriots used to operate this way but the MO (and expectations of the fanbase) changed somewhere around 2007.

Building through the draft is how you compete in the league, not through free agency. Trades and free agents can round out a roster but you need to develop your own talent.

The Saints did not win the Super Bowl through the Draft. Please check the rosters. Brees, Vilma, Shockey, Fujita, Shanle, Bell, Evans, Gay, Thomas, Eckle. Please re-evaluate your posting on that one. Trades and FA weer optimum for their success.

The 2007 Patriots had a very good selection of FA's and Trades. Vrabel, Harrison, Neal, Moss, Welker. Seau, Colvin even AD and more. 18-1 is a sore subject but do we get that far without those guys in 2007? Yes or no?

Last time I looked, the Colts and Chargers (the Chargers talent, talent, talent etc.B.S. ) did not win anything last year and the Steelers were worse than we were. Drafts are great to add and replenish. 18% success rate across the boards for decent starters from any Draft for a three year period of time. Are you willing to S*** can 2010 for the hope than all 8 Draft choices are starters and yet we still have 14 holes to fill?

DW Toys

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Have you seen the last 4 patriot drafts?

Well, here you go..........Read and weep. 2006/7/8 are absolutely classic pathetic. 2009 we will know better by this year



Pick Pos Player College Note
2009
2.02 DB Patrick Chung Oregon from KC
2.08 DL Ron Brace Boston College from OAK
2.09 DB Darius Butler Connecticut from GB
2.26 OL Sebastian Vollmer Houston
3.19 WR Brandon Tate North Carolina from NYJ through GB
3.33 LB Tyrone McKenzie South Florida compensatory pick
4.23 OL Rich Ohrnberger Penn State from BAL
5.34 OL George Bussey Louisville compensatory pick
6.25 LS Jake Ingram Hawaii from BAL
6.34 DL Myron Pryor Kentucky compensatory pick
7.23 WR Julian Edelman Kent State from MIA through JAC
7.25 DL Darryl Richard Georgia Tech
2008
1.10 LB Jerod Mayo Tennessee from NO
2.31 DB Terrence Wheatley Colorado
3.15 LB Shawn Crable Michigan from NO
3.31 QB Kevin O'Connell San Diego State
4.30 DB Jonathan Wilhite Auburn
5.18 WR Matt Slater UCLA from TB
6.31 LB Bo Ruud Nebraska
2007
1.24 DB Brandon Meriweather Miami from SEA
4.28 DL Kareem Brown Miami
5.34 OL Clint Oldenburg Colorado State compensatory pick
6.06 LB Justin Rogers Southern Methodist from ARI
6.28 DB Mike Richardson Notre Dame
6.34 RB Justise Hairston Central Connecticut compensatory pick
6.35 OL Corey Hilliard Oklahoma State compensatory pick
7.01 LB Oscar Lua Southern California from OAK
7.37 OL Mike Elgin Iowa compensatory pick
2006
1.21 RB Laurence Maroney Minnesota
2.04 WR Chad Jackson Florida from GB; trade 2006 2.20, 3.11
3.22 TE David Thomas Texas
4.09 TE Garrett Mills Tulsa from DET
4.21 K Stephen Gostkowski Memphis
5.03 OL Ryan O'Callaghan California from OAK
6.22 DL Jeremy Mincey Florida
6.36 OL Dan Stevenson Notre Dame compensatory pick
6.37 DL Le Kevin Smith Nebraska compensatory pick
7.21 DB Willie Andrews Baylor

 

[DW Toys]

No chance ! I think Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Marquise Hill, Ben Watson, David Thomas, Guss Scott are the saviors

Can I add our superb first round pick Mr. Maroney and our QB of the future, third rounder Kevin O'Connell?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Well, here you go..........Read and weep. 2006/7/8 are absolutely classic pathetic. 2009 we will know better by this year



Pick Pos Player College Note
2009
2.02 DB Patrick Chung Oregon from KC
2.08 DL Ron Brace Boston College from OAK
2.09 DB Darius Butler Connecticut from GB
2.26 OL Sebastian Vollmer Houston
3.19 WR Brandon Tate North Carolina from NYJ through GB
3.33 LB Tyrone McKenzie South Florida compensatory pick
4.23 OL Rich Ohrnberger Penn State from BAL
5.34 OL George Bussey Louisville compensatory pick
6.25 LS Jake Ingram Hawaii from BAL
6.34 DL Myron Pryor Kentucky compensatory pick
7.23 WR Julian Edelman Kent State from MIA through JAC
7.25 DL Darryl Richard Georgia Tech
2008
1.10 LB Jerod Mayo Tennessee from NO
2.31 DB Terrence Wheatley Colorado
3.15 LB Shawn Crable Michigan from NO
3.31 QB Kevin O'Connell San Diego State
4.30 DB Jonathan Wilhite Auburn
5.18 WR Matt Slater UCLA from TB
6.31 LB Bo Ruud Nebraska
2007
1.24 DB Brandon Meriweather Miami from SEA
4.28 DL Kareem Brown Miami
5.34 OL Clint Oldenburg Colorado State compensatory pick
6.06 LB Justin Rogers Southern Methodist from ARI
6.28 DB Mike Richardson Notre Dame
6.34 RB Justise Hairston Central Connecticut compensatory pick
6.35 OL Corey Hilliard Oklahoma State compensatory pick
7.01 LB Oscar Lua Southern California from OAK
7.37 OL Mike Elgin Iowa compensatory pick
2006
1.21 RB Laurence Maroney Minnesota
2.04 WR Chad Jackson Florida from GB; trade 2006 2.20, 3.11
3.22 TE David Thomas Texas
4.09 TE Garrett Mills Tulsa from DET
4.21 K Stephen Gostkowski Memphis
5.03 OL Ryan O'Callaghan California from OAK
6.22 DL Jeremy Mincey Florida
6.36 OL Dan Stevenson Notre Dame compensatory pick
6.37 DL Le Kevin Smith Nebraska compensatory pick
7.21 DB Willie Andrews Baylor

Case in point. Our last three years draft. 5 picks (or potential) with above average talent to start and Pro Bowl capabilities.....17.8%. Some decent subs and a LS. Look at 2006 alone in ten picks and we got Ghost and Maroney left. Even if some of you call Maroney a much better than average back, that is 20%.
DW Toys

 

[WesWelker83]

Bravo sir! Great post.
DW Toys

All you "build through the Draft" fans. Think this: 18% success rate in the whole NFL in each teams Draft that a player will amount to better than average or Pro Bowl caliber within THREE YEARS!!!. The other 82% will become roster fillers, serviceable back ups, or out of the league.

Count them, we have 14 holes and 8 Draft picks. If we hit a home run of 100% on our Draft, we are still six players short so we drag them off the leftover FA pile?

14 Holes?

I think we need to definitely upgrade the talent on this roster but I don't think we have that many holes. Could you let me know where you think the holes are? Here are the holes in my opinion:

1 RB: We need to add a young stud back through the draft. I wouldn't touch any of the trash on the open market. Westbrook, LT, Jones, Larry Johnson and Chester Taylor are all past their prime and I dont have interest in any of them becaue of production, injury and age concerns. I hope we can add one of these three backs in the 3rd/4th rd: Montario Hardesty, Ben Tate, and Toby Gerhart.

2 WR: I think Moss is fine as the 1 and I expect a big year out of him because hes playing for his last contract. The guy had back and shoulder injuries and all yr and still had 13 tds 1000+ yds and made the pro bowl. Welker should be back by Oct/Nov and will give us a huge boost. Edelmen is fine as a #3 WR and we also have Tate the kid who got hurt last yr as a 3rd rd pick. He was a huge sleeper coming out of the draft. I am praying that we sign Deion Branch to be the #2 WR for the first half the season and then we take a WR 2nd rd like Damian Williams, Andre Roberts, or Jeremy Williams.

2 TE: We need a blocking TE which wont be too hard to get off the scrap heap and we need a #1 TE through the draft. This class is very deep and I would love to finally add that pass catching TE we crave. I would look at add a TE in the mid to late rounds like Dennis Pitta, Dorin ****erson, Tony Moaeki or Colin Peek.

1 OL?: I think we aren't bad here at all. We have 3 tackles who are all solid and another who is a stud (Seabass) as well as Neal and Mankins at guard who are excellent. I think we could upgrade Koppen with Pouncey 2nd rd but if we don't take him I dont see many other OL who actually upgrade this team and play next yr.

1 DE: We need to add a 5 technique DE to fill in for Seymours absence making Wright/Pryor backups again who play on certain series and 3rd downs. I would look for us to add Carrington, Odrick, or Arthur Jones here.

2 LB: I think we need to resign Burgess and bring in two OLBs to tuture under TBC, Burgess, and Woods. Burgess really came on at the end of the year and TBC had a great yr with 10.5 sacks even though he is weak vs the run. I expect us to grab a guy 2nd rd here (Misi, Wooten?) and then another guy later in the draft or through trade (gocong). I think we are fine at ILB with Guyton, Mayo, and Mackenzie providing a solid 3 man rotation. Who can we actually get at ILB to upgrade the roster? I dont want Spikes and Mcclain will go before we pick. The FAs suck at this spot besides Dansby. Next yr I see huge improvements from Mayo and Guyton considering its their 3rd yr on the team.

1 CB: If we bring back Bodden this need goes down but I really like this CB class and I would like to add one guy to kick Wilhite/Wheatley down to the 4 an 5 sport or potentially off the team if they dont play well. Springs is a solid #3. I want to take Devin Mccourty or Kareem Jackson in the 2nd rd.

I have us at 9 holes with OL being a possible 10th hole. We should be able to adequatly fill these holes with the draft and bargain FA guys.

 

[SanAngeloState]

You have a good point, maybe I meant to say no "high priced" FAs. They are frequently albatrosses who underperform in a different system (see Thomas, AFailius).

It sure would be nice if BB would get some outside counsel before reaching for turds like bethel, chad jackson, guss scott (???), dexter reid, and on and on and on and on.

 

[pats1]

14 Holes?

I think we need to definitely upgrade the talent on this roster but I don't think we have that many holes. Could you let me know where you think the holes are? Here are the holes in my opinion:

1 RB: We need to add a young stud back through the draft. I wouldn't touch any of the trash on the open market. Westbrook, LT, Jones, Larry Johnson and Chester Taylor are all past their prime and I dont have interest in any of them becaue of production, injury and age concerns. I hope we can add one of these three backs in the 3rd/4th rd: Montario Hardesty, Ben Tate, and Toby Gerhart.

2 WR: I think Moss is fine as the 1 and I expect a big year out of him because hes playing for his last contract. The guy had back and shoulder injuries and all yr and still had 13 tds 1000+ yds and made the pro bowl. Welker should be back by Oct/Nov and will give us a huge boost. Edelmen is fine as a #3 WR and we also have Tate the kid who got hurt last yr as a 3rd rd pick. He was a huge sleeper coming out of the draft. I am praying that we sign Deion Branch to be the #2 WR for the first half the season and then we take a WR 2nd rd like Damian Williams, Andre Roberts, or Jeremy Williams.

2 TE: We need a blocking TE which wont be too hard to get off the scrap heap and we need a #1 TE through the draft. This class is very deep and I would love to finally add that pass catching TE we crave. I would look at add a TE in the mid to late rounds like Dennis Pitta, Dorin ****erson, Tony Moaeki or Colin Peek.

1 OL?: I think we aren't bad here at all. We have 3 tackles who are all solid and another who is a stud (Seabass) as well as Neal and Mankins at guard who are excellent. I think we could upgrade Koppen with Pouncey 2nd rd but if we don't take him I dont see many other OL who actually upgrade this team and play next yr.

1 DE: We need to add a 5 technique DE to fill in for Seymours absence making Wright/Pryor backups again who play on certain series and 3rd downs. I would look for us to add Carrington, Odrick, or Arthur Jones here.

2 LB: I think we need to resign Burgess and bring in two OLBs to tuture under TBC, Burgess, and Woods. Burgess really came on at the end of the year and TBC had a great yr with 10.5 sacks even though he is weak vs the run. I expect us to grab a guy 2nd rd here (Misi, Wooten?) and then another guy later in the draft or through trade (gocong). I think we are fine at ILB with Guyton, Mayo, and Mackenzie providing a solid 3 man rotation. Who can we actually get at ILB to upgrade the roster? I dont want Spikes and Mcclain will go before we pick. The FAs suck at this spot besides Dansby. Next yr I see huge improvements from Mayo and Guyton considering its their 3rd yr on the team.

1 CB: If we bring back Bodden this need goes down but I really like this CB class and I would like to add one guy to kick Wilhite/Wheatley down to the 4 an 5 sport or potentially off the team if they dont play well. Springs is a solid #3. I want to take Devin Mccourty or Kareem Jackson in the 2nd rd.

I have us at 9 holes with OL being a possible 10th hole. We should be able to adequatly fill these holes with the draft and bargain FA guys.

Just like Joey Galloway and Ron Brace filled holes last year?

 

[WesWelker83]

Just like Joey Galloway and Ron Brace filled holes last year?

No more like how Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Larry Izzo, Rodney Harrison, Roosevelt Colvin and Corey Dillon performed here. For every stud we have signed/traded/ or draftd you can name a bust as well.You can do that for every team in the league.

In case you don't remember we won titles with cheap WRs like Troy Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens and cheap Rbs like Antowain Smith, Faulk, etc. We spend money on OL, DL, and QB. We will spend for an elite LB or S as well. We tend to not pay Cbs high money but Law wa paid well for a few yrs. We have done a good job resigning VW, Neal, and TBC. I hope we resign Bodden at like 6 mil a yr I think would be fair for both sides. Bring back Faulk and get a TE. Dont tell me you were one of those fools who thought we were giving Peppers 40 mil plus and Dansby stupid numbers as well. Look at Duanta Robinson too 2nd highest paid CB in the league and Rolle highest paid safety now! Neither of these guys are top 10 at their positions!

The best teams are built on under the radar FA signings, trades, and great drafts (Colts, Pats, Steelers, Chargers, Ravens, Eagles!)

This team isn't far off. We were blow out once by the Saints, lost to Miami by 1, Colts by 1, and Denver by 3 and Jets by 7 while Brady was still recovering. I expect TB to be even better next yr beng his 2nd yr back. The Ravens did blow us out but after the first period screwups the game was over anyways. With a couple tweeks, a good draft, development from Brace, Chung, Butler, Mayo, Guyton, Meriwether, Wilhite and a bounce back yr from Brady, Light, Kaczur this team will be a playoff team again and a championship threat.