Any FA's you like this off season?

[The Intimidator]

Keith Bulluck Tennessee seems like a Belichick guy who probably would like to win.

He just torn his ACL last week vs the Phins, which means he will probably not be ready until the middle of next season. If healthy yes, now I will pass.

Here are some guys I like on the free agent market:


Defense:

Dawan Landry SS Ravens: I have always liked this kid. He is known for his ability to be a hard hitting safety and ballhawk throughout his career. Due to the team he plays on with guys like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed etc... He doesn't really get the much attention and could be signed for reasonable money.

Marcus Spears DE Cowboys: Terrific defensive end, who is a great run stuffer. If we go into the 4-3, he would be perfect to take that defensive end spot. We address the pass rush through OLB.. He will be probably franchised by the Boys, however he certainly someone to keep an eye.


Elvis Dumbervil DE Broncos: An Elite Passer rusher who could move to OLB. He is having his best year with 15 sacks and 3 forced fumbles. Will be a restricted free agent however, with Brandon Marshall also becoming a free agent it is unlikely the Bronco's would be able to keep both. Bares watching.


Tony Brown NT Titans: One of the most underrated defensive players in the NFL. He is one of the best DT at putting pressure on the QB with 5.5 Sacks the most among NT. He is very underrated and could be signed reasonably to a good deal. Plug him in with Wilfork, it would be relentless pressure up the middle.

Richard Marshall CB Carolina: Very physical corner who has very good cover sills. Though this secondary has improved since last season, it still needs a lot of work. He is a guy who I would really looked at being opposite of Bodden ( who I think we will resign) would be a very good signing if we improve the pass rush.

Offense:

Mike Bell RB Saints: Good power runner who could be a change of pace type guy if we were to draft like C.J Spiller or Jonathan Dywer or sign one via free agency. Would be a good guy to come here and be a power type guy.

Lance Moore WR Saints: Has been a good option for Drew Brees as a 3rd WR. We have seen the lasting affects that comes with not having a good 3rd WR. Sam Aiken is a nice special teams guy but isn't a guy who will be good for you in the passing game. Moore I think would solve this problem.

Other guys im intrested in are:

Pierre Thomas
Willie Colon
Antiono Bryant
Reggie Bush- If Released
Stephen Jackson- via trade

 

[mayoclinic]

Willie Colon would be a terrific RG/RT for us. I think he'll be pricey, though.

 

[dryheat44]

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I don't think Mankins is worth 8 mil a year with all of those flags he's been drawing this year. I'm thinking 7 is more appropriate. The highest I could go is 7.5. I'm going to go ahead and say that no guard is worth 8 mil a year. Remember the franchise number is 8.3...and that includes offensive tackles.

Space Ghost has been struggling a bit this year. he's hitting about 85%. This is a what have you done for me lately league. Right now, 85% accuracy does not justify 4 mil a year. We could keep him for about 3 mil tops. Don't get bogged down in FG accuracy, especially for guys who attempt long field goals. His extra distance on kickoffs is a huge advantage over the course of a game, and the edge in field position along with his FG reliability (which fluctuates in all kickers year-to-year) is worth making him the highest-paid kicker, if necessary.

Unfortunately, I think you might be right about Wilfork. I hope he doesn't hit us hard for 9 mil, but it just might be coming to that. My question is, why not pay the man last off season. We could have saved ourselves a draft pick, and not wasted it on Brace. Wilfork will be franchised, and then hopefully a long-term contract will be negotiated after the CBA situation gets sorted out. I think Brace would have been drafted regardless. I think a Wilfork-Brace-Warren line with Wright and Green filling in would be dynamite if Brace continues to develop into a run-plugger

Bodden should not get 7 mil a year. When he went up against Pierre Garcon, I think he played poorly. Garcon dropped a lot of passes. Those drops inflated Bodden's stats that game. I truly think, if Bodden played better in the fourth quarter, against a young inexperienced wide receiver, we would have won that game. We don't have our corners switch sides very often, so there doesn't seem to be a need to pay him like one that does. If it comes down to paying Wilfork an extra mil to keep him, or over paying Bodden and extra mil, I say give it to Big Vince in a heart beat. I like Bodden a lot, going back to his Cleveland years. But I agree he's not worth 7 million. I don't think Bodden thinks he's worth 7 million.

3 mil a year for Faulk seems reasonable.

4 mil for Watson is a bit much. If he asks for one penny more than 4, I say let him go. He's as good as gone, I think

 

[mayoclinic]

I think 3.5-4M/year for Watson is reasonable. I think 6M/year for Bodden is reasonable. If neither can be signed for that kind of money, let them go.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think 3.5-4M/year for Watson is reasonable. I think 6M/year for Bodden is reasonable. If neither can be signed for that kind of money, let them go.

I can't see the Patriots paying over $3M for a TE, draft someone in the 4th round. It is not like they throw to them anyway.

It is hard to project contract numbers but as far as on field play. IMO, even though he has been burned from time to time, I think Bodden is the best CB on the team. I don't know if that is high praise or a back handed compliment. The lack of pass rush makes it difficult to evaluate the secondary but like the other defensive units they seem average, not good, not bad just middle of the road.

 

[dryheat44]

I can't see the Patriots paying over $3M for a TE, draft someone in the 4th round. It is not like they throw to them anyway.

It is hard to project contract numbers but as far as on field play. IMO, even though he has been burned from time to time, I think Bodden is the best CB on the team. I don't know if that is high praise or a back handed compliment. The lack of pass rush makes it difficult to evaluate the secondary but like the other defensive units they seem average, not good, not bad just middle of the road.

I actually really like our Bodden-Wilhite-Springs-Butler CB contingent, and our Meriweather-Magowan-Sanders-Chung safety unit. I think they have potential to be a great group...if Wheatley can stay healthy and produce by the time Springs moves on.

If you put the 2004 linebackers on this team, the Pats might be undefeated. At worst, they would have only the Saints loss. I never knew how much I would miss that Vrabel-McGinest-Colvin pass rush.

 

[mayoclinic]

I actually really like our Bodden-Wilhite-Springs-Butler CB contingent, and our Meriweather-Magowan-Sanders-Chung safety unit. I think they have potential to be a great group...if Wheatley can stay healthy and produce by the time Springs moves on.

If you put the 2004 linebackers on this team, the Pats might be undefeated. At worst, they would have only the Saints loss. I never knew how much I would miss that Vrabel-McGinest-Colvin pass rush.

I agree with this. I would really like to re-sign Bodden if at all reasonable and keep some stability in the secondary. Given them another year together to grow and give gthem some pass rush up front to pressure opposing QBs, and I think we will be good.

Dominique Foxworth got 4 years at $28M (terrible deal). Jabari Greer got 4 years at $22M. Something in that range would be acceptable.

 

[mgteich]

You can say that it is aceptable to pay $5.5M a year for Bodden and watch him sign for someone else.

Bodden is a top corner. If we don't believe it, we can let him sign elsewhere.

I agree with this. I would really like to re-sign Bodden if at all reasonable and keep some stability in the secondary. Given them another year together to grow and give gthem some pass rush up front to pressure opposing QBs, and I think we will be good.

Dominique Foxworth got 4 years at $28M (terrible deal). Jabari Greer got 4 years at $22M. Something in that range would be acceptable.

 

[mgteich]

Both parties understand what the contractual terms are, and that the patriots try to resign top players before their contract year. Both parties would need to understand tha value to them of a three extension for Welker. Obviously, we can simply wait, not take the injury risk, and pay much more next year.

The theory, I think, is to lock up good players when doing so would reduce salary-cap ramifications in future years (i.e., if the Pats gave WW another $5M signing bonus in 2010, it wouldn't count against any salary cap that might return in 2011).

 

[mgteich]

All right, we differ by $2M. You would let Bodden, Gost and Mankins walk for the difference of $2M. Do I have your position stated correctly?

Wilfork we would both pay the $9M
Watson we would both pay $4M
Bodden you would pay $6M; I would gladly pay $7M
Mankins I would pay $8M; you would stop at $7.5M
Gost You would stop at $3M, I would go $.5M higher
Faulk we would both pay him $3M

As an organization, one needs to decide on which players to be frugal and when to "overpay" a bit. It also should be remembered that these are average compensation numbers. Often, the last year's salary is not paid.

I think all of your calculations and scenarios are very realistic.

 

[Jimke]

You can say that it is aceptable to pay $5.5M a year for Bodden and watch him sign for someone else.

Bodden is a top corner. If we don't believe it, we can let him sign elsewhere.

I like both your approach and that of mayoclinic. I hope the

Patriots follow your leads and give serious thought to negotiating

and re-signing their own high end free agents. My fear is that the

replacements may not be as good as the originals.

 

[mayoclinic]

You can say that it is acceptable to pay $5.5M a year for Bodden and watch him sign for someone else.

Bodden is a top corner. If we don't believe it, we can let him sign elsewhere.

I didn't say that. I gave a range between Jabari Greer ($5.5M/year) and Dominique Foxworth ($7M/year) as to what I thought would be reasonable. I think $7M/year is the upper end of what I would pay for Bodden. Beyond that you start to get into "elite CB" money, and I think Bodden is a good, but not elite, CB. I'm not sure what you mean by "top" corner, but I don't think he's in the Darrell Revis/Nnamdi Asomugha/Champ Bailey (or possibly Leon Hall) class, but I think he's an above average starting CB. But ultimately the FO will decide what their value range is, and I assume they will be rigorous about sticking to it, as they have been in the past.

 

[mayoclinic]

All right, we differ by $2M. You would let Bodden, Gost and Mankins walk for the difference of $2M. Do I have your position stated correctly?

Wilfork we would both pay the $9M
Watson we would both pay $4M
Bodden you would pay $6M; I would gladly pay $7M
Mankins I would pay $8M; you would stop at $7.5M
Gost You would stop at $3M, I would go $.5M higher
Faulk we would both pay him $3M

As an organization, one needs to decide on which players to be frugal and when to "overpay" a bit. It also should be remembered that these are average compensation numbers. Often, the last year's salary is not paid.

I don't think any of your numbers are unreasonable, and I think I said that earlier. I just felt that you seemed to be starting at the very high end of the spectrum. I'm not sure what the market value is for a top end guard. There have been some ridiculous contracts given out, but the franchise value for all OT's is $8.5M this year, so I assume that the top 5 guards come in under that. If the market price for a guard of Mankins' caliber is $8M then that's what it is, and I would pay it. But it seemed a bit high to me as a first guestimate, that's all.

In the past, the Pats FO has tended to put a value on players as to what the team is willing to pay, and has been pretty strict about not budging beyond that. That may have cost us, and I'm not defending it, but my guess is that is how they will do business with all of the FAs.

 

[glm]

What are the thoughts on Antonio Bryant?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Gost You would stop at $3M, I would go $.5M higher

First off, unless a CBA miraculously materializes in the next two months, Gostkowski is an RFA, not a UFA.

The franchise tender in 2009 was $2.48M (it was used on Shayne Graham).

The first-round RFA tender in 2010 will be $2.396M.

Personally, I think at this point there are really only three teams that might be interested enough in Gostkowski's services to even consider coughing up a first-rounder (DAL, DEN, and IND), and I'm not sure any of them would actually do it.

There are a couple of other points to consider:

1. The Patriots like Gostkowski, to the point that they haven't signed a single kicker since, even as a warm body for TC (cf. punters). [And, I might add, even after BB supposedly lost confidence in him in That Game.]

2. This list might show why the Patriots would be well advised to keep Gostkowski, although it does raise the question of how much it would cost to do so.

 

[mgteich]

Nothing you have posted convinces me that we shouldn't off Gostkowski a 4-year $12M - $14M contract.

I know that we can keep him for less for a 2010 uncapped year. That approach would lose him in 2011 almost for sure.

First off, unless a CBA miraculously materializes in the next two months, Gostkowski is an RFA, not a UFA.

The franchise tender in 2009 was $2.48M (it was used on Shayne Graham).

The first-round RFA tender in 2010 will be $2.396M.

Personally, I think at this point there are really only three teams that might be interested enough in Gostkowski's services to even consider coughing up a first-rounder (DAL, DEN, and IND), and I'm not sure any of them would actually do it.

There are a couple of other points to consider:

1. The Patriots like Gostkowski, to the point that they haven't signed a single kicker since, even as a warm body for TC (cf. punters). [And, I might add, even after BB supposedly lost confidence in him in That Game.]

2. This list might show why the Patriots would be well advised to keep Gostkowski, although it does raise the question of how much it would cost to do so.

 

[WelshPat]

Am i right in thinking that we will franchise Wilfork this off season? Am I the only one scared that the Chiefs will give up the first and 3rd it takes to get him?

Nearly 300 yards given up by one running back who plays for the browns! They really need a nose tackle.

 

[mayoclinic]

Am i right in thinking that we will franchise Wilfork this off season? Am I the only one scared that the Chiefs will give up the first and 3rd it takes to get him?

Nearly 300 yards given up by one running back who plays for the browns! They really need a nose tackle.

The odds are extremely high that Wilfork will either be signed to a long term deal or franchised. To do neither would pretty much assure that Wilfork leaves in 2010, and the Pats would get only a 2011 3rd round comp pick in return. Horrible situation.

There are several options involving the franchise tag. If Wilfork is franchised with the exclusive tag, that would preclude any other team for making him an offer. That was done by Baltimore with Terrell Suggs, for example (and Suggs subsequently was signed to a long term deal). That option costs more, but guarantees that the player will remain your property for that year.

If Wilfork is franchised with the non-exclusive tag, then the cost for any team that chooses to sign him to an offer sheet which the Pats decline to match would be 2 first round picks, not a first and a 3rd (that would be the price for a restricted FA who is tendered at the highest level).

If Kansas City, which should have a top 5 pick, wants to sign Wilfork to an offer sheet and is willing to cough up a top 5 pick this year and a likely high 1st round pick next year, I personally would do it in a flash, even though I'm a big Wilfork fan. But I doubt it would happen.

The other option is that the Pats could franchise Wilfork and trade him to another team. In that scenario the compensation would be whatever the Pats and the other team agree on. In the case of Jared Allen, for example, Minnesota gave up roughly a first and 2 third round picks. A lot, but less than the 2 firsts if they had just signed him to an offer sheet.

I don't think the Pats would like to trade with KC, because the Chief's 1st round pick is so high that the signing cost of a top 5 draft pick would offset a lot of the cost of signing Wilfork. I suspect someone like Denver or San Francisco, picking in the 10-12 range, would be more to BB's liking.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Nothing you have posted convinces me that we shouldn't off Gostkowski a 4-year $12M - $14M contract.

I know that we can keep him for less for a 2010 uncapped year. That approach would lose him in 2011 almost for sure.

I think the lower end of the scale is more in line with what the Pats would offer, although I have no problems with offering the high end.

I know that with Vinatraitor they balked at offering the big bucks, but ultimately changed their minds (though too late to keep him). I don't know what effect that experience will have on their negotiations with Gostkowski.

 

[mgteich]

The compensation is two first round picks in order to sign a one-year contract.


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A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

Am i right in thinking that we will franchise Wilfork this off season? Am I the only one scared that the Chiefs will give up the first and 3rd it takes to get him?

Nearly 300 yards given up by one running back who plays for the browns! They really need a nose tackle.