Brady vs. Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

[Deus Irae]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

...There's been a million threads on Brady Vs. Mannings, and who is better. I'm NOT IN ANY WAY ASKING that. I am not asking who is better. I am simply asking even the biggest Brady fans (of which I consider us all) to concede a single way in which Peyton Manning is a better Quarterback than Brady....

Actually, this is asking which quarterback is better. It's just doing so using a breakdown of specific QB tasks.

Having said that, I think it's fair to say that both have areas of superiority, so I'll play along....

Manning is better at throwing timing patterns.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

Actually, this is asking which quarterback is better. It's just doing so using a breakdown of specific QB tasks.

Having said that, I think it's fair to say that both have areas of superiority, so I'll play along....

Manning is better at throwing timing patterns.

He's also WAY better at throwing on the run and, as of right now, his deep ball might be a little bit better than Brady's (though that can change at any time as I believed that his deep ball was better than Brady's up until 2007 when I then changed my opinion to Brady).

Why we sometimes call designed rollout passes, especially a called play in which he rolls out to the left, is beyond me. Throwing on the run has never been Tommy's strongsuit.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

He's also WAY better at throwing on the run and, as of right now, his deep ball might be a little bit better than Brady's (though that can change at any time as I believed that his deep ball was better than Brady's up until 2007 when I then changed my opinion to Brady).

Why we sometimes call designed rollout passes, especially a called play in which he rolls out to the left, is beyond me. Throwing on the run has never been Tommy's strongsuit.

I'll continue to say that Brady is better with the deep ball, overall, unless he can't get all the way back by the end of the season. I just add the caveat "But he hasn't been so far this season". That seems to be the fairest way to do it, in my mind.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

I can't tell if I'm actually eager to read responses, or if I am simply eager to perform a social experiment on Homerism.

Ok guys, here's the deal. First off, I admit fully that this may not be the week to post this thread. My apologies if this angers anyone. Especially those who want to believe we're gonna light it up in Indy. I for one DO think we are going to win, although we are goign to need to bring our A game.

BUT

There's been a million threads on Brady Vs. Mannings, and who is better. I'm NOT IN ANY WAY ASKING that. I am not asking who is better. I am simply asking even the biggest Brady fans (of which I consider us all) to concede a single way in which Peyton Manning is a better Quarterback than Brady.

To clarify, I just want to hear from anyone willing to offer just one part of Peyton Mannings game that is better than Bradys. I don't want to hear about why Brady is better, nor do I want this to devolve into a thread about who is the better QB. I just want to see if anyone can get past their homerism for even a minute and search for a single part of Peyton's game that could be better than Bradys.

So, let's hear it. Obviously, I'd prefer it if the trolls stayed out of this one. Is anyone able to look at the two completely objectively?

EDIT: I figure the Colts fans are going to respond anyway, so for them, I simply ask in what ways Brady is a better QB than Peyton?

Rules of the game: Patriot fans can't say ways Brady is better, and Colts fans can't say about ways Peyton is better. It has to be the opposite. In what ways is your nemesis better than your hero. This seems like a very evil question to ask..that is, if anyone is willing to respond.

I do think that Manning has a slightly superior deep ball (give him Randy Moss and see what he can do), has slightly superior pocket presence (it's amazing that he takes so few sacks with a line that really isn't that good)--in both of these areas, he and Brady are very good, and it's close. He also throws better on the move, which is a legitimate weakness in Brady's game. As someone else mentioned, he does timing patterns probably better than anyone else has ever done them.

 

[JFK]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

I do think that Manning has a slightly superior deep ball (give him Randy Moss and see what he can do), has slightly superior pocket presence (it's amazing that he takes so few sacks with a line that really isn't that good)--in both of these areas, he and Brady are very good, and it's close. He also throws better on the move, which is a legitimate weakness in Brady's game. As someone else mentioned, he does timing patterns probably better than anyone else has ever done them.

I agree with the deep balls but I think Brady has better pocket presence than any QB in the NFL. He also makes smarter choices and is more accurate within 20yds.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

I'll continue to say that Brady is better with the deep ball, overall, unless he can't get all the way back by the end of the season. I just add the caveat "But he hasn't been so far this season". That seems to be the fairest way to do it, in my mind.

Yeah, he'll be back. It's just a matter of when he wants to fully plant on that leg/knee. I felt he had Moss on those couple of bombs he threw up against Miami and they were only dropped/intercepted because of two outstanding plays from Vontae Davis (who was with Moss step for step on those couple of plays).

 

[JFK]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

even in 07, Manning had better deep balls than Brady. Its easier to throw deep to a speedy 6'4" guy than a Reggie Wayne or Harrison.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

even in 07, Manning had better deep balls than Brady. Its easier to throw deep to a speedy 6'4" guy than a Reggie Wayne or Harrison.

Brady's deep ball is better than Manning's, when both are healthy. Prior to the leg injury, it really wasn't all that close. Brady could throw into a 2 foot window on an adjustment route more than 40 yards downfield. Manning is mediocre the moment his receiver gets bumped off his expected pattern.

Just ask Ty Law.

 

[Lampshade]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

Brady certainly isn't great throwing on the run, but I'm really not sure Peyton is much better.

As for the long ball, Peyton throws very few deep deep (40+ yards in the air). In fact, according to ESPN, he's only attempted 6 since the beginning of the 07 season, and completed 0. Brady in 07 was 7 for 17. What Peyton has traditionally had success with is the post pattern, 20 or so yards downfield. Those deep routes are where I'd suggest Peyton has an accuracy advantage.

 

[Mountain_Commando]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

folks in indy must be pissed

There's actually a post there comlaining about the poll being featured on patsfans.com, and claiming that 700 odd members from here are spamming the poll .

So I guess 700 patsfans members are more homer than the entire readership of indystar combined

 

[Mainefan]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

I think the Globe should run the same poll. I'm willing to bet Brady would win in a walk.

Anyhow--if we're six points down, there's two minutes on the clock and we have the ball, first down on our own 20, I know who's going to win the game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

There's actually a post there comlaining about the poll being featured on patsfans.com, and claiming that 700 odd members from here are spamming the poll .

So I guess 700 patsfans members are more homer than the entire readership of indystar combined

Well, have you seen newspaper readership levels over the past few years?

 

[Synovia]

Re: In What Ways is Peyton Manning a Better QB than Brady: The Ultimate Homer Test

I do think that Manning has a slightly superior deep ball (give him Randy Moss and see what he can do),

I agree with that, and I think Manning is MUCH better at throwing the ball in the 20 yard range. He just seems to hit his receivers in stride much more often.

 

[skri65]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

wow, the amount of unbiased opinion here of Manning's ability is shocking. Didn't see that much when I asked the question of ways in which Manning is better than Brady.

As for me, I think Manning knows how to loft the high arching timing routes better than Brady. I think the 2007 year Brady threw a better deep ball, but every year outside of that I think Manning has thrown a better one. I also think Manning throws the 20 yard ball better. Manning has a MUCH faster release.

Unlike some of you, I think Brady is unparalleled in pocket presence and short passes. Intangibles obviously go to Brady, as well. If he can get his knee under him again he can have a better deep ball.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

wow, the amount of unbiased opinion here of Manning's ability is shocking. Didn't see that much when I asked the question of ways in which Manning is better than Brady.

As for me, I think Manning knows how to loft the high arching timing routes better than Brady. I think the 2007 year Brady threw a better deep ball, but every year outside of that I think Manning has thrown a better one. I also think Manning throws the 20 yard ball better. Manning has a MUCH faster release.

Unlike some of you, I think Brady is unparalleled in pocket presence and short passes. Intangibles obviously go to Brady, as well. If he can get his knee under him again he can have a better deep ball.

Ok....... Here are the numbers. It should be noted that these numbers SHOULD favor Manning, because his earliest seasons aren't included, he plays far more games inside domes and in 'perfect' weather, and he had the better receivers for most of this time. I could not go back earlier, because ESPN doesn't have the distance splits from 2001 or earlier posted.


41+ yards since 2002, going backwards from 2009

Manning
0-2
0-2
0-2
3/9
2/8
0-1
2/5
0/6

Brady
1/7
None attempted in 2008
7/17
2/6
2/9
7/13
4/8
0/9

So, since 2002, Manning is 7 for 35 (.200) on the 41+ yards passes. Brady, during that same time, is 23 for 69 (.333) on those same passes.

* Things do even out, and even flip percentages, if you change "long" to 31+ yards instead of 41+. Then Manning is 71 for 211 (.336) and Brady is 56 for 180 (.311). However, given the advantages Manning has in the stats bias here, and the 2% difference in completion percentage even when you add in the 31-40 yards range with all those biases, I stand by my assertion that Brady throws the better deep ball. It becomes quite pronounced when "deep ball" really is a "deep ball".

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

wow, the amount of unbiased opinion here of Manning's ability is shocking. Didn't see that much when I asked the question of ways in which Manning is better than Brady.

As for me, I think Manning knows how to loft the high arching timing routes better than Brady. I think the 2007 year Brady threw a better deep ball, but every year outside of that I think Manning has thrown a better one. I also think Manning throws the 20 yard ball better. Manning has a MUCH faster release.

Unlike some of you, I think Brady is unparalleled in pocket presence and short passes. Intangibles obviously go to Brady, as well. If he can get his knee under him again he can have a better deep ball.

Yeah, to take the other side, I think Brady's about even in pocket presence (I gave it to Manning, but it's a very slight edge), Brady has a similarly slight edge IMO in selling the PA, which Manning is also very very good at. Brady is a more accurate passer in the short game, and makes better pre-snap and post-snap reads.

Either way, I'd take Brady, but the debate's definitely much more interesting now than it was 3 or 4 years ago. Brady's proven that he can put up monster numbers, and Manning's proven himself to be a reliable clutch performer (I know many will disagree with that, but he is). Manning still has a bit of a playoff monkey on his back, since he was average at best in the Colts' SB year, but I honestly think that that has more to do with small sample size than anything- anyone that isn't afraid of him in the playoffs this year is crazy.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

4
So, since 2002, Manning is 7 for 35 (.200) on the 41+ yards passes. Brady, during that same time, is 23 for 69 (.333) on those same passes.

* Things do even out, and even flip percentages, if you change "long" to 31+ yards instead of 41+. Then Manning is 71 for 211 (.336) and Brady is 56 for 180 (.311). However, given the advantages Manning has in the stats bias here, and the 2% difference in completion percentage even when you add in the 31-40 yards range with all those biases, I stand by my assertion that Brady throws the better deep ball. It becomes quite pronounced when "deep ball" really is a "deep ball".

Manning doesn't have a 6'5" receiver who can jump about 9 feet in the air. He has a pair of 5'10 receivers. That certainly makes a difference.

 

[skri65]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

Ok....... Here are the numbers. It should be noted that these numbers SHOULD favor Manning, because his earliest seasons aren't included, he plays far more games inside domes and in 'perfect' weather, and he had the better receivers for most of this time. I could not go back earlier, because ESPN doesn't have the distance splits from 2001 or earlier posted.


41+ yards since 2002, going backwards from 2009

Manning
0-2
0-2
0-2
3/9
2/8
0-1
2/5
0/6

Brady
1/7
None attempted in 2008
7/17
2/6
2/9
7/13
4/8
0/9

So, since 2002, Manning is 7 for 35 (.200) on the 41+ yards passes. Brady, during that same time, is 23 for 69 (.333) on those same passes.

* Things do even out, and even flip percentages, if you change "long" to 31+ yards instead of 41+. Then Manning is 71 for 211 (.336) and Brady is 56 for 180 (.311). However, given the advantages Manning has in the stats bias here, and the 2% difference in completion percentage even when you add in the 31-40 yards range with all those biases, I stand by my assertion that Brady throws the better deep ball. It becomes quite pronounced when "deep ball" really is a "deep ball".

My argument said that I believe Manning had a better deep ball for all years except 2007. I wonder how many of those 41+ yarders were in 2007 (and yes, Synovia's point is also true, I distinctly remember two catches against the Dolphins in 2007 when it was a 41+ bomb into deep double/triple coverage and Moss simply outjumped people...obviously Manning has no one who can do that. With that said, over the years, Manning has had the better weapons to throw deep passes with the exception of 2007.)

 

[mystrymaster]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

There's actually a post there comlaining about the poll being featured on patsfans.com, and claiming that 700 odd members from here are spamming the poll .

So I guess 700 patsfans members are more homer than the entire readership of indystar combined

No one reads that trash rag

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Brady vs Manning (merged) Comparison Thread

My argument said that I believe Manning had a better deep ball for all years except 2007. I wonder how many of those 41+ yarders were in 2007 (and yes, Synovia's point is also true, I distinctly remember two catches against the Dolphins in 2007 when it was a 41+ bomb into deep double/triple coverage and Moss simply outjumped people...obviously Manning has no one who can do that. With that said, over the years, Manning has had the better weapons to throw deep passes with the exception of 2007.)

I gave the numbers for each individual year. Brady is better, whether you are including 2007 or not. Without 2007, Brady is still at .308 from 41+, compared to Manning's .200.

Furthermore, I always find the "except 2007" interjections to be amusing. Nobody seems to say "except 2004" when talking about Manning, after all, and the Manning/Brady years don't occur until Manning is already in his prime, while Brady still takes a couple of seasons to get up to full ability.