Felger: Start BenJarvus Green Ellis

[Deus Irae]

Let's not fool ourselves here and back up an argument by throwing BB in there. He may be the greatest coach alive, but he's not perfect. He's made plenty of bad decisions regarding players he's had on this team.

Some of them work out, and some of them don't. I've supported Maroney for awhile now, but the guy just really hasnt proven to be a first round talent.

Now, maybe if we can some how get him more involved in the passing game, he could salvage himself into a dependable third down back, and maybe have a break out game here and there, but this year is definately his last chance to step it up.

Why on Earth would I not point to Belichick in regards to players he keeps running out on the field? I'd have to be a complete moron not to look at that for guidance. Belichick isn't perfect, and nobody is, but he's certainly not a 'maroon', and neither is Matt Light, and both of them have access to the game films, unlike (at least most of) those who are posting here.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You know a lot about football more than I, so the question is when is Sports Illustrated or USA Today calling to hire you?

That fact that you consider that a reasonable response pretty much proves my point about you.

There are so many maroons in here with excuses galore and failing hopes year after year for an obvious worthless #1 draft pick that BB and Pioli blew thier first pick on that its downright hilarious to see you guys grabbing your nuts holding on to hope . - Maroney blows...get over it

If Chad Jackson were still here we would have the same 'give him time' bullsh!t that some of you spew out - BB and Pioli had a horrid 1st and 2nd 2006 draft,thank goodness that was not the norm

No need to speculate- a lot of the same posters were here for the Jackson era, so their opinions are known. I wasn't, but I'll gladly explain why I was never a big Jackson fan: because he never produced. He was always hype and nothing more. Could he have become a good NFL player if not for the ACL tear? Who knows, maybe. The fact was, though, that he never produced on the field. Maroney, OTOH, has produced very effectively. People who are waiting for him to pull through aren't hoping for something that he's never shown us- we're hoping for a return to form, and we're not ready to discount him simply because he had a bad game against one of the best run defenses in NFL history.

Once again, though, the fact that you think that Maroney and Jackson are valid comps proves my point.

 

[letekro]

I am going to bump this thread and in particular this post sometime in the near future. I am so tired of the "quality posters" people who think they are better than others.[/QUOTE

In defense of "letekro" he has posted 1,669 times on a message board. He seems fully qualified to determine which NFL players, sports commentators and Patsfans.com posters are "junk" and which ones are not.

Again, just trying to provoke more cogent analysis then simply regurgitating the "dancing" line. I mean facts are facts. If Maroney runs 200 times for 580 yards this year (his current pace) I'll be the first to admit he's trash. At the same time, let's look at the observed facts - he still has averaged over 4 ypc in the NFL, including an injury plagued 2008 and a slow start here in 2009. Call it dancing, call it what you will, but production is production and the guy has done it when healthy. Tomlinson, Payton, Sanders, even the greats have had poor games - much worse than Maroney's 27 carries for 78 yards this year. I remember games when Tomlinson and AP have started out 8 carries for 8 yards, but then they keep getting the rock and they bust out. Maroney deserves that opportunity too. You have to take into account that it is MUCH tougher to run the ball early in the game than late. He deserves an opportunity to run it 20-25 times this week.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Let's not fool ourselves here and back up an argument by throwing BB in there. He may be the greatest coach alive, but he's not perfect. He's made plenty of bad decisions regarding players he's had on this team.

Some of them work out, and some of them don't. I've supported Maroney for awhile now, but the guy just really hasnt proven to be a first round talent.

Now, maybe if we can some how get him more involved in the passing game, he could salvage himself into a dependable third down back, and maybe have a break out game here and there, but this year is definately his last chance to step it up.

Why shouldn't he throw BB's name into the argument? BB's opinion is the only one that matters on this topic. Except you and your "but this year is definately his last chance to step it up" definitive statement that is.

None of us know what BB is thinking on this matter, but those on the Maroney isn't that bad bandwagon do have the fact that he's still on the team on their side. BB does make mistake, he's only human, but he does seem to recognize those mistakes in a fairly timely manner and make moves to rectify them. He's hasn't done that, so far, with Maroney.

And that's really all that matters on this team. What BB wants, happens.

 

[BradyFTW!]

None of us know what BB is thinking on this matter, but those on the Maroney isn't that bad bandwagon do have the fact that he's still on the team on their side. BB does make mistake, he's only human, but he does seem to recognize those mistakes in a fairly timely manner and make moves to rectify them. He's hasn't done that, so far, with Maroney.

And that's really all that matters on this team. What BB wants, happens.

It's especially important to note that a lot of these experts were equally positive that 2008 was Maroney's 'do or die' year, and by the end of 2008 were 100% positive that he would never take another snap for the Patriots again. Clearly, they're missing something, and the fact that Maroney even made the 2009 team proves it.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Felger: Start Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

What is ******ed is to keep starting a back that has 8 yards on 7 carries.

What is ******ed is making decisions based on one game, quoting those stats as though they tell the story, and thinking that what a player does in his last game is what he will do forever.

Maroney has a career 4.2 ypc average, and he got it the hard way, as a single setback in a two TE set. He doesn't get the draws against pass defense that Morris, Faulk and Taylor got.

But, hey. Let's bench him as start Morris. He has the same career average as Maroney, and this year is gaining a whopping 0.3 yards per carry more than Maroney.

This stuff is exactly like the spaygate stuff. Some maroons who are clueless say something. Others repeat it as fact, and before you know it, a whole colony of maroons is howling at the moon.

 

[letekro]

Re: Felger: Start Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

What is ******ed is making decisions based on one game, quoting those stats as though they tell the story, and thinking that what a player does in his last game is what he will do forever.

Maroney has a career 4.2 ypc average, and he got it the hard way, as a single setback in a two TE set. He doesn't get the draws against pass defense that Morris, Faulk and Taylor got.

But, hey. Let's bench him as start Morris. He has the same career average as Maroney, and this year is gaining a whopping 0.3 yards per carry more than Maroney.

This stuff is exactly like the spaygate stuff. Some maroons who are clueless say something. Others repeat it as fact, and before you know it, a whole colony of maroons is howling at the moon.

Tremendous post.

 

[SpiderFox53]

anybody want to guess who this stat line belongs to?

att yds avg long
21 32 1.5 7

 

[Patriot 37]

Re: Felger: Start Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

What is ******ed is making decisions based on one game, quoting those stats as though they tell the story, and thinking that what a player does in his last game is what he will do forever.

Maroney has a career 4.2 ypc average, and he got it the hard way, as a single setback in a two TE set. He doesn't get the draws against pass defense that Morris, Faulk and Taylor got.

But, hey. Let's bench him as start Morris. He has the same career average as Maroney, and this year is gaining a whopping 0.3 yards per carry more than Maroney.

This stuff is exactly like the spaygate stuff. Some maroons who are clueless say something. Others repeat it as fact, and before you know it, a whole colony of maroons is howling at the moon.

The Moroney has more speed and talent than Morris (or BJGE) but his running style causes a lot negative plays, were Morris's doesn't. Historically and this year the best part of the Pats O has been the short passing game. I rather have 3rd and 3 and 2nd and 7, with Morris. than 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 8 with a couple 15 yard runs mixed in.

I always thought Emmitt Smith was better than Barry Sanders for this same reason. Sanders would get a series of 1 or two gains then go for 40 where Smith seemed like he gain 5 yards everytime he carried the ball.

Unless Moroney plays light out from the start, I think BJGE going to get 5-10 carries so we'll start to have an idea whose a better. Although BB would obviously rather have Moroney in there (IMO he's the worst RB on the roster but obviously BB knows better) Watching him, one thing he seems really good at is blitz pick-up, which maybe is why he plays more than most fans probably want. But the fact than he isn't that good of a runner isn't in our imaginations. He's painfully frustrating to watch.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Felger: Start Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

The Moroney has more speed and talent than Morris (or BJGE) but his running style causes a lot negative plays, were Morris's doesn't.

That's not actually true. Did a carry-by-carry breakdown on Maroney's 2007, and it didn't reflect this at all. Maroney's career success rate also indicates otherwise. I was pretty surprised to learn that too, since my impression from watching him had always been similar to yours.

 

[Patspsycho]

Belichick isn't perfect, and nobody is, but he's certainly not a 'maroon'

What color is he then????????????

 

[holyredeemer]

Why shouldn't he throw BB's name into the argument? BB's opinion is the only one that matters on this topic. Except you and your "but this year is definately his last chance to step it up" definitive statement that is.

None of us know what BB is thinking on this matter, but those on the Maroney isn't that bad bandwagon do have the fact that he's still on the team on their side. BB does make mistakes, he's only human, but he does seem to recognize those mistakes in a fairly timely manner and make moves to rectify them. He's hasn't done that, so far, with Maroney.

And that's really all that matters on this team. What BB wants, happens.

I don't know why BB keeps him, and I dont question why he does, but as soon as his rookie contract is up do you really think the Pats are going to resign him unless he's not asking for a load of cash?

I can say why I would keep him, and the reason is simple, Maroney is a game changer when he's hot, he's cheap, he's young, and Im sure BB and company hold onto the same small thread of hope that all of us fans do in him becoming a legitimate back.

Let's not kid ourselves here. The fan base has every right to be upset with Maroney's performance on the field. He's a former first round pick that showed flashes of stardom his rookie year and hasnt done squat since. Throwing the argument about BB keeping him in there is a cop out. Let's talk about all of the other players BB let hang around a lot longer than he should. It's not a knock on BB at all, you hit some, you lose some.

Do you really not hold the same feeling that this is Maroney's year to finally show up? You probably are right though. His contract year will be his final chance and I bet he really turns it up then.

I'm sorry for the long post but how long are we going to blame the OC's and the O-Lineman on Maroney's performances but yet other backs come in and perform admirably?

 

[VJCPatriot]

His guest, former Patriot TE Christian Fauria replied that "I wish we could put an electronic harness around Maroney so that every time he starts to dance we could press a button and shock him from the sidelines".

ROFL. That is comic gold! Are you sure Fauria doesn't do standup in his spare time?

I say give BJGE and Maroney some carries and may the best man win! I think what actually happens is that Morris and Faulk get more carries and BJGE and Maroney barely touch the ball.

Do you really not hold the same feeling that this is Maroney's year to finally show up? You probably are right though. His contract year will be his final chance and I bet he really turns it up then.

I believe that this year IS Maroney's contract year. And we're all still waiting for him to show up. Something better than 7 carries for 6 yards would be nice. It's pretty sad when TFB outrushes you on any given Sunday. LOL.

Why on Earth would I not point to Belichick in regards to players he keeps running out on the field? I'd have to be a complete moron not to look at that for guidance. Belichick isn't perfect, and nobody is, but he's certainly not a 'maroon', and neither is Matt Light, and both of them have access to the game films, unlike (at least most of) those who are posting here.

First of all BB is the same guy who kept running Ellis Hobbs out there and then turned around and traded him for a 4th round pick and change. Maybe BB kept running him out there because there wasn't much better at the end of the bench in 07, not because he thought Hobbs was this 'great player' or something. And when did Matt Light proclaim that Maroney was a better RB than BJGE, Morris, or Faulk? I'd like to see a quote or link for that one.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Re: Felger: Start Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

I always thought Emmitt Smith was better than Barry Sanders for this same reason. Sanders would get a series of 1 or two gains then go for 40 where Smith seemed like he gain 5 yards everytime he carried the ball.

Emmit smith had arguably the greatest O-line of all time with a great blocking fullback. and a viable passing attack to take the 8th man out the box

Barry had a shyt line and ran out of the run and shoot for the better part of his early career. With the cowboys line barry wouldn't have had to run backwards

Emmit smith is not better than barry sanders!!

 

[Patriot 37]

Re: Felger: Start Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

Emmit smith had arguably the greatest O-line of all time with a great blocking fullback. and a viable passing attack to take the 8th man out the box

Barry had a shyt line and ran out of the run and shoot for the better part of his early career. With the cowboys line barry wouldn't have had to run backwards

Emmit smith is not better than barry sanders!!

Good Points, Maybe Sanders had to run sideways alot, all I know is he did. Walter Payton was better than both of them anyway.

 

[RayClay]

ROFL. That is comic gold! Are you sure Fauria doesn't do standup in his spare time?

I say give BJGE and Maroney some carries and may the best man win! I think what actually happens is that Morris and Faulk get more carries and BJGE and Maroney barely touch the ball....


I believe that this year IS Maroney's contract year. And we're all still waiting for him to show up.

Split carries or give it to Maroney and see if he can get the monkey off his back. Don't see what it accomplishes to keep him on the team if he can't get untracked.

He's signed through 2010, by the way.

I disagree with Felger, not surprising. No point in leaving Maroney on the bench, it's s** or get off the pot time. If he still can't run hard, then send in Morris and BJ.

Maybe say he's injured and send him to a shrink.

 

[RayClay]

I am going to bump this thread and in particular this post sometime in the near future. I am so tired of the "quality posters" people who think they are better than others.

What's worse is that quality line that gets first downs and TDs for Morris and always blocks great for Taylor.

Don't know why they replace the whole line with scrubs when Maroney's in there?

 

[RayClay]

Wish they could find some quality pundits to ask about this, instead of those Haters Bruschi and Grogan.

 

[SpiderFox53]

What's worse is that quality line that gets first downs and TDs for Morris and always blocks great for Taylor.

Don't know why they replace the whole line with scrubs when Maroney's in there?

You do know that Morris is only averaging .3 yards per carry more than Maroney is don't you?

 

[shmessy]

You do know that Morris is only averaging .3 yards per carry more than Maroney is don't you?

How many 3rd and 1's and 4th and 1's does Maroney get the ball?

Situational football. Not fantasy football.

If you know anything about Bill Belichick it is that he values the RB who can get that 1 yard on a 4th and 1 with 9 in the box more than a RB who on 1st down dances for 2.