I'm Still Mad

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

keeping Cassel reined in is one of the reasons we will go to the play offs, they take their shots when the situation calls for it but I'm happy with our surgical marches down the field. The only beef I have is the red zone play calling. I mean a draw on 3rd & goal at the 7? c'mon bb.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You are fooling yourself.

Take a look at the defense. It has taken drastically different styles and looks, which are indicative of the style of the OC's. Romeo's D has looked a lot different from Mangini's or Pees' defense.

Belichick gives his coordinators lots of leeway, he does not micromanage in general.

BS. Belichick brought Charlie in because he respected his intellect and saw in him someone who could implement his style of offense which is predicated on taking what the opposing defense which he can diagnose better than anyone in the game will give him.

In superbowl XXXVI the TD that Brady threw to Patten in the EZ was based on a play call that Belichick adjusted on the fly to account for the way the corner was covering. As I recall it was an out adjusted to an out and up. Every call goes through Belichick. The final game plan goes through Belichick. After the broad parameters of that game plan are established by Belichick. Belichick sits in on the Friday QB meetings where the game plan is fine tuned.

Romeo's D had a lot more pro bowlers and emerging pro bowlers in their prime and cagy Belichick system veterans than Pees has had to work with. In case you hadn't noticed we've been turning over that defense since 2005. And because Pees had less experience in a pro setting with Bill's exact model he's spent consince siderable time coaching up that D since Romeo left. He took over the D from Mangenius down the stretch in 2005 which speaks volumes to how much autonomy Eric had... Josh has actually fared somewhat better at least on game day but he also had Tommy on his side of the ball.

At the end of the day here everything is a collaboration but the final decision always rests with Bill. That is why we don't replace our coordinators from outside the system...

 

[emoney_33]

Josh McDaniels has no idea how to exploit weaknesses or self-scout his own tendencies.

Every game the past few games, by the second half my friends and I can guess most of the play calls and where the ball is going on offense.

McDaniels calls plays like he's playing a Madden game, he goes with the same 5 plays he picked from the beginning, over and over and over.

Now just imagine if you were an opposing coach and you picked up on these tendencies, and you then coached your team around these tendencies for the upcoming game. And then in a big moment in a huge game, BAM it's different, completely bucks the trend and your team is caught so off guard it's embarassing.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Now just imagine if you were an opposing coach and you picked up on these tendencies, and you then coached your team around these tendencies for the upcoming game. And then in a big moment in a huge game, BAM it's different, completely bucks the trend and your team is caught so off guard it's embarassing.

LOL Oh yeah, like Bill would ever hold anything in reserve for say a potential meeting in the second season when he knows how much each weeks game, no each series matters to the delicate sensibilities of this highly intelligent fan base...:ugh:

:idea2:

Bill has a system and he finds personnel who can play some role within it and then he schemes weekly based on both an opponents available personnel and tendancies and his own available personnel's strengths and weaknesses. And he never reveals more than he has to because he lives to fight another day. (Personally that was why I hated to see the statue of liberty before the SB game...). He's also been known to show something he does not necessarily expect to succeed against one opponent just to force the next guy on the schedule to have to devote practice time to it.

 

[maverick4]

I'm not surprised you don't realize he's talking about the Superbowl

 

[Rob0729]

maverick, seriously. How many different threads are you going to highjack and turn into another McDaniels bashing thread. You really need to consider changing your screen name to NEM Jr. because you are starting to the same thing that he used to do that turned most of the board against him.

You don't even try to bring anything new to the argument. What is the fourth or fifth thread that you have used the McDaniels is the Gen X version of Norv Turner.

I ain't even get getting into another one of these thread arguments with you because your act has gotten really old.

 

[maverick4]

I just went through that game link you posted Mo, and it proves spacecrime's point.

The Giants were teeing off on pass rush all day because of our non-existent adjustments.

Instead of running more screens, the moron OC kept calling more shotgun formations. Meaning, instead of using certain runs or screens to defeat a pass rush, he stubbornly insisted on throwing the ball vertically and put his QB in shotgun more, in hopes it would buy more time. Unfortunately, Brady just kept getting pounded from shotgun.

Look at page 9 and 10 of that link you posted. Almost all pass plays, almost all directed at receivers.

 

[Deus Irae]

I just went through that game link you posted Mo, and it proves spacecrime's point.

The Giants were teeing off on pass rush all day because of our non-existent adjustments.

Instead of running more screens, the moron OC kept calling more shotgun formations. Meaning, instead of using certain runs or screens to defeat a pass rush, he stubbornly insisted on throwing the ball vertically and put his QB in shotgun more, in hopes it would buy more time. Unfortunately, Brady just kept getting pounded from shotgun.

Look at page 9 and 10 of that link you posted. Almost all pass plays, almost all directed at receivers.

Your no screen argument has been debunked over and over, yet you continue with it. Did McDaniels sleep with your wife or something?

 

[tombonneau]

Don't sweat this loss. Win or lose the Colts game, the Pats' season will still be dictated by their performance in the next 4

Bills
Jets
@Mia
Pitt

4-0 and they are likely in driver's seat for the #2 seed. 2-2 or 1-3 and it won't matter what they did vs. the Colts.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

the Pats' season will still be dictated by their performance in the next 4.

That is what I have to keep telling myself (Sunday's loss still stings). Right now we still control our own destiny for a first round bye.

 

[maverick4]

Your no screen argument has been debunked over and over,

You obviously did not read the link/doc that Mo posted.

Look at the listing of every single play called, it's right there, you can take your hands away from your eyes now.

Not one throw to an RB in the entire 4th quarter.

The 4th quarter was mostly shotgun and passes to our wide outs.

The OC had no clue how to diffuse a pass rush, other than to use more shotgun which is insane.

It is as insane as only throwing deep one time all game against a horrible Colts secondary made up of players lucky to even be in the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

You obviously did not read the link/doc that Mo posted.

Look at the listing of every single play called, it's right there, you can take your hands away from your eyes now.

Not one throw to an RB in the entire 4th quarter.

The 4th quarter was mostly shotgun and passes to our wide outs.

The OC had no clue how to diffuse a pass rush, other than to use more shotgun which is insane.

It is as insane as only throwing deep one time all game against a horrible Colts secondary made up of players lucky to even be in the league.

Get back to me when you learn enough football to realize that there is such a thing as a wide receiver screen.

 

[spacecrime]

Your no screen argument has been debunked over and over, yet you continue with it. Did McDaniels sleep with your wife or something?

It has been debunked over and over? I haven't seen it debunked once. How many screens did they run in the second half against the Giants?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Get back to me when you learn enough football to realize that there is such a thing as a wide receiver screen.

Or that you can throw screens out of the shotgun...Or that KFaulk is a RB who caught 2 short passes from Brady as part of the 12 play 4th Qtr. TD drive...

 

[Deus Irae]

Or that you can throw screens out of the shotgun...Or that KFaulk is a RB who caught 2 short passes from Brady as part of the 12 play 4th Qtr. TD drive...

People don't know what the hell a screen pass is, and still have the temerity to criticize the offensive coordinator for not calling them. Sheer genius.....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It has been debunked over and over? I haven't seen it debunked once. How many screens did they run in the second half against the Giants?

Not up for counting them by half but unoriginal says 1 out of 6 passing plays in the game were screens of some sort so...and he provides some insight into why they didn't work any better than most of the rest of what we attempted to do that evening...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...pass-protection-breakdown-excellent-read.html

 

[nepatz11]

I think McDaniels is an excellent game planner who consistently makes some poor decisions on game day. I think having TB has bailed him out of that a lot but this year we are seeing some of those weaknesses exposed. I would not say he is a terrible OC but he is not a good one either. He is an average or so OC.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I'm still mad too! And I'm with Spacecrime - we should have tried going down the field at least a few more times. Remember, we had their pass rush pretty well under control, and Cassell was moving better than ever in the pocket.

The game plan didn't work - we lost, what other measure matters? You can't say if Gaffney hadn't dropped the pass, if Thomas hadn't lost his control, etc. that we would have won. It makes no sense to do so because Indy screwed up several times also; so couldn't we say Indy would have won bigger if Wayne hadn't dropped that pass, if Freeney hadn't just missed his sack, etc.?

In theory the game plan made sense, but in reality in didn't work. When you decide to go ball control one of the risks you face is the reduced number of possessions. If you don't convert the few you have - and the Pats' one TD in the red zone was a poor job - then you're at risk of losing to a team fast scoring team that does convert their opportunities. And that is exactly what happened Sunday night.

I also agree that BB doesn't trust Cassel yet. BB never would have called that panicked TO on Brady. why? Because he has trust in him. This is not to say that BB should trust Cassel as much as he can Brady, I'm only making clear the difference in the way he treats them despite what BB says at the podium.

 

[Rob0729]

I think McDaniels is an excellent game planner who consistently makes some poor decisions on game day. I think having TB has bailed him out of that a lot but this year we are seeing some of those weaknesses exposed. I would not say he is a terrible OC but he is not a good one either. He is an average or so OC.

But you can say that about Charlie Weis too. I already posted in another thread all the games in 2003 that Pats offense had 4, 5, 6, or even more three and outs. That year was the worst year for the Pats converting third downs in the Brady era including this year. The Pats had a whole host of games that year that the Pats failed to score even 20 offensive points. And that was with Brady and Branch (well for half the season). That is being exposed too. If it wasn't for the amazing defense in 2003, people probably would have called for Weis' head that season because he was lost that year.

People have to remember that McDaniels is working with Cassel as his QB who has become a good enough QB, but is far from the top QBs in the game. The last two weeks, he has been working with an undrafted free agent as his lead RB. The Pats have been more successful on offense than other teams with more talent at those two positions in recent weeks. I think half the coordinators in this league would have this offense in shambles under these conditions.

McDaniels is not the best OC out there, but he is above average. The thing is people felt the same way about Weis prior to 2004 (I remember people hoping that the Bills would hold the HC job open for him in the 2003 season). People forget the problems Weis had converting third downs, totally abandoning the run in the second half, being in love with the FB draw on third down that almost never converted the first down, and overusing trick plays over and over. Maybe after McDaniels leaves, people will overinflate his record like they have with Weis.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think McDaniels is an excellent game planner who consistently makes some poor decisions on game day. I think having TB has bailed him out of that a lot but this year we are seeing some of those weaknesses exposed. I would not say he is a terrible OC but he is not a good one either. He is an average or so OC.

LOL posts like this crack me up...

Charlie was a great gameplanner and play caller except when his game plans and play calls resulted in a L because players on our team failed to execute while players on the opposing team executed exceptionally well. Same goes for Josh.

Ever wonder what all those corrections are that Bill speaks about making post game? Think he locks the coordinators in a closet after the film is reviewed and doesn't let them out until they admit the failures were the result of poor plans or calls he agreed with at the time? While the poor players who were their victims sit around eating bonbons and comiserating about how those bad calls or a bad game plan caused them to lose?

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

There are several teams in this league who are plagued by consistently bad calls and lousy game plans. But the vast majority win or lose based on player execution or failure to. Missed blocks, miscommunication, misreads, dropped balls, mental errors, inconsistent effort, and misfortune has a lot more to do with the losses here. The failure of 1 player in 11 to execute is more often than not the difference between failure and success on any play called. If it was all about the play calls Charlie rather than Josh would have orchestrated an undefeated season or 3. Instead he spent much of his early time here spewing obcenities and glaring at his weak links. Play calls are based on down, distance, situation and defense. Fans here rarely stop to analyze calls based on any of that because they don't often even grasp the half of it. They just know if play A didn't work it was because he shoulda called play B or C because absent evidence to the contrary obviously they would have worked... Not to mention even if play A works they would have rather seen play B or C because it's more exciting or would have worked even better...

It's really pathetic.