The pass rush

[Slagathor]

Keeping in mind that Seymour and Warren were not on the field, I still have one thing to nit-pick.

Delhomme still seemed to have way too much time to throw the ball. I'd love to see the Pat's give more Qb's happy feet.

Delhomme is the king of the junk ball. Like during the Super Bowl, he throws that high arcing crap in the air and it gets caught alot. I hate that smug effer.

The Pats pass rush has it's few moments, but I have yet to see it make any QB seem uncomfortable.

I know historically we've been a control the line of scrimmage D, but I honestly thought i heard we'd be letting guys like 'Fork do some bull rushing right up the middle.

 

[patriot lifer]

Re: The pass rush.

Yeah, there wasn't too much of a rush. But I think Carolina does have a good o-line. Last year they suffered injuries. But it's always a concern. Seymour, Warren, and Wright, as you mentioned, ought to do the trick. What I'm glad about that game is that they could contain the running game well.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: The pass rush.

I dont know what you heard, but we wont be changing defensive philosophy any time soon.
Our DLs first priority is engaging the blocker to play 2gap D, then if reading pass, start a pass rush. We will NEVER have a great 1st and 2nd down pass rush. Our system is not set up for it. If you want a great pass rush, watch teams like the Bucs where the DL pass rush every play, and they hope they can somehow stop the run. We will never be like that, and of course it isnt worth sacrificing everything that BBs system brings to create something he doesnt feel has as much value. By the way, because of this system we cover better than those teams on 1st and 2nd down.
Our scheme is designed to pressure on 3rd down. There is no 2gapping on obvious pass situations. Given that until the final drive of th efirst half the Panthers hadnt converted a 3rd down, Im not sure how our pass rush could be considered an issue last night.

 

[Slagathor]

Re: The pass rush.

I dont know what you heard, but we wont be changing defensive philosophy any time soon.
Our DLs first priority is engaging the blocker to play 2gap D, then if reading pass, start a pass rush. We will NEVER have a great 1st and 2nd down pass rush. Our system is not set up for it. If you want a great pass rush, watch teams like the Bucs where the DL pass rush every play, and they hope they can somehow stop the run. We will never be like that, and of course it isnt worth sacrificing everything that BBs system brings to create something he doesnt feel has as much value. By the way, because of this system we cover better than those teams on 1st and 2nd down.
Our scheme is designed to pressure on 3rd down. There is no 2gapping on obvious pass situations. Given that until the final drive of th efirst half the Panthers hadnt converted a 3rd down, Im not sure how our pass rush could be considered an issue last night.

I'm well versed in the Pats currently line control/read and react philosophy.

My fear is how well that will play out against teams like Indy and Cincinnati again this year. All NFL caliber receivers get open eventually given enough time, regardless of how many lb's and db's are back in coverage.

3 and 4 man rushes are not gonna cut it against good O-Lines.

Also, based upon what I've seen so far, and pardon my blasphemy, but Bruschi is becoming a liabilty in coverage. Decent TE's are going to have a field day.

No to play chicken little but it WILL be intersting to see how this plays out over the course of the year.

My hopes going into camp were to see AD play more of a McGinest/Elephant position and rotating Seau and Vrabel in the middle.....or something like that.

 

[RayClay]

Re: The pass rush.

Our pass rush comes from the linebackers.

I haven't seen A.D. wreak havoc yet and am a little concerned that Vrabes and Bruschi have lost a step, quite frankly.

 

[Slagathor]

Re: The pass rush.

Our pass rush comes from the linebackers.

I haven't seen A.D. wreak havoc yet and am a little concerned that Vrabes and Bruschi have lost a step, quite frankly.

I don't think Vrabel has, but Bruschi definitely has.....expectedly.

With age and what the guy's gone through it shouldn't be surprising. Sad nonetheless.

You wish your heroes were indestructable/infatigueable forever. Seau looks MUCH quicker than either Vrabes or Bru. But he truly is a physical freak.

I saw Bruschi allow a reception to TE right in front of his face that 3 years ago would have been intercepted of at least batted away. He seemed to be more worried about keeping up with the receiver rather than watching for the pass.

 

[signbabybrady]

I wouldn't worry to much about the pass rush as two of the starting de line is missing and more importantly BB has yet to unleash the exotic blitz schemes and let the lbs run wild. when all that comes together things will be different. the front seven is the least of my concerns.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: The pass rush.

I'm well versed in the Pats currently line control/read and react philosophy.

My fear is how well that will play out against teams like Indy and Cincinnati again this year. All NFL caliber receivers get open eventually given enough time, regardless of how many lb's and db's are back in coverage.

3 and 4 man rushes are not gonna cut it against good O-Lines.

Also, based upon what I've seen so far, and pardon my blasphemy, but Bruschi is becoming a liabilty in coverage. Decent TE's are going to have a field day.

No to play chicken little but it WILL be intersting to see how this plays out over the course of the year.

My hopes going into camp were to see AD play more of a McGinest/Elephant position and rotating Seau and Vrabel in the middle.....or something like that.

There is a big difference between playing a team like Carolina and a team like Indy. Against a team like Carolina we are going to stick to a base D most of the time (again Im leaving 3rd down out of the equation). Aganst the Colts, many times we have played nickel as the base. The fact that our philospphy is 2gap doesnt mean we force that philosophy in every situation.
The point being that you are not going to see heavy pass rush on 1st and 2nd down against a balanced offense. The theory is that we stop the run on early downs to set up good 3rds rather than sell out for the big play.
If we are facing the Colts, and a 3 WR offense with a TE that is more WR than TE, we wont play a 3-4 2 gap base nearly as often.
You cannot judge what our pass rush will be in passing situations (which may be 70% of the time vs the Colts intead of 30% of the time against the Panthers) from how we rush the passer in running or nuetral situaitons.

Ultimately, in order to become a great pass rushing team on all downs, we would need to have a coach with an entirely different philosophy of defense. There is nothing you can do on defense without sacrificing something else, and I trust that our coach makes the best decisions in all of football about what to go after and what to sacrifcie or not sacrifice. With that, comes accepting the fact of life that rushing the passer on first and second down isnt a large priority.

 

[PonyExpress]

According to Football Outsiders, in 2006 the Pats got more of their sacks from "blocking breakdowns" than any other team but SD. But on 3rd down passing situations the Pats ranked 28th in the league in "sack rate" last season. IMO these numbers indicate that the Pats' high sack totals last season were due more to the quality of the D-line, the coaching staff, and the scheme than the pass rush ability of the LBers. Colvin is an adequate, complementary player, who will thrive as a cog surrounded by an awesome array of talent. Elsewhere on this board Colvin been praised for having a high number of "QB hits" last year. Those who note this neglect to mention that the scorekeeper at Gilette is notorious for awarding "hits" more frequently than anywhere else in the NFL, almost 80% above the league average, and 25% above the next rival team (see page 440 of FO's 2007 "Football Prospectus"). IOW, Colvin's QB hit totals are inflated by the subjective application of an unofficial statistic. This is significant because as WOLB he is the principle pass rush weapon of the 3-4. Unfortunately, his closing speed is not elite. I expect the 2007 D to be awesome, due to its legendary D-line, the versatility and smarts of its LB corps, the additional presence of AD, and a tremendous secondary. If A. Thomas is moved to WOLB next offseason, the Pats' pass rush will improve. In the meantime, BB is willing to sacrifice a % of his pass rush to use AD's talent elsewhere. A pass rush is not the be all end all of defense.