List of discrepancies in or with the wells report.

[Ross12]

Send it all to Brady's agent. Especially the issues with the gauge and PSI info. http://www.yeedubin.com/

Everyone, please send this to Mythbusters http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/about-this-show/mythbusters-submit-a-myth/

Directions are here

Thanks bud, I'll send what I've got over when I'm not at work (which will probably be like tomorrow afternoon). Hard to do much more than post on here from my iPhone lol.

 

[Ross12]

Oh no doubt, I'm with you all the way. I'm just following his faulty logic but pointing out additional issues.

End of the day the 'control' data is suspect (no idea what the conditions were for pre-game measurements of Colts balls), the gauge used for pre-game is suspect (Anderson says one thing, they base their report on another), the Patriots psi data could be faulty (no accounting for Belichick's presser and how the Patriots say they prepare footballs).

It's ALL faulty, and even with that said the Patriots balls were NO MORE than 0.3-0.4 psi out of range (even using the 'worst' combination of data metrics), a miniscule amount that hardly justifies the risk involved to Brady and the Patriots.

Exactly. Multiple rather important pieces of their data are either very suspect or simply ignored, their text message interpretations are based solely on their own opinions and not on the context provided by those who sent the messages, and they omit key interviews with the people they are slandering (Brady) entirely.

Despite slanting all of this heavily in their favor, the best result they can come to is a 50.1% "more probable than not" conclusion. As a judge, if you were to consider even one of the above as having not been represented properly, you would easily establish a very reasonable doubt that any tampering of any kind occurred at all.

 

[Dr Pain]

Here is my email to Mythbyusters. The more they get the more likely they are to do it.

Question : Can a temperature drop from 72 degrees to 48 degrees and a cold winter rain and a 44 degree dew point cause 11 Footballs to Deflate from 12.5 PSI to:
1 11.80
2 11.20
3 11.50
4 11.00
5 11.45
6 11.95
7 12.30
8 11.55
9 11.35
10 10.90
11 11.35

This is a very big issue now and the NFL hired a firm renown for proving second hand smoke does not cause cancer and that asbestos does not cause cancer to do the science work and determined that the conditions of a football being filled at 12.5 PSI indoors at 72 degrees, measured hours later at 48 degrees outside while a colder than 48 degree rain fell on them at 44 degree dew point would not cause this PSI decline.
Here is an article on the company hired http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18
Here is the entire report and the PSI data is on page 163.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.co...s-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

Please do this myth. Tens of millions of Americans are very interested in your take.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

In their "scientific" study of footballs under game conditions, they simulated the effect of rain by spritzing the balls once every 15 minutes with a "household spray bottle" for the two hour length of the first half. This showed a significant impact on inflation. Did it really capture the full impact of rain during the game and a very wet field?

Lol what a joke

The ball was completely soaked that day and you had 300 lb athletes tackling people and landing on it for 30 minutes..

Yea let's spray some mist on it every 15 minutes to recreate the conditions of an nfl game in Janaury played in freezing rain with world class athletes that smash into each other..

This is seriously like a troll report.. its almost like they got together and were like... let's see how much BS we can write down and get away with.. probably had bets going, with guys being like "lol there is no way anyone is going to believe that!"

 

[Danger Zone]

Here is my email to Mythbyusters. The more they get the more likely they are to do it.

Question : Can a temperature drop from 72 degrees to 48 degrees and a cold winter rain and a 44 degree dew point cause 11 Footballs to Deflate from 12.5 PSI to:
1 11.80
2 11.20
3 11.50
4 11.00
5 11.45
6 11.95
7 12.30
8 11.55
9 11.35
10 10.90
11 11.35

This is a very big issue now and the NFL hired a firm renown for proving second hand smoke does not cause cancer and that asbestos does not cause cancer to do the science work and determined that the conditions of a football being filled at 12.5 PSI indoors at 72 degrees, measured hours later at 48 degrees outside while a colder than 48 degree rain fell on them at 44 degree dew point would not cause this PSI decline.
Here is an article on the company hired http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18
Here is the entire report and the PSI data is on page 163.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.co...s-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

Please do this myth. Tens of millions of Americans are very interested in your take.

And lets not forget, Anderson, "to the best of recollection" thought he used the Logo gauge to set the psi's of the football pregame.. this was the gauge that was giving a +.4 psi reading.

Had he done as believed he did to the best of his recollection, he would have set the Patriot footballs to 12.1 psi, not 12.5.

That one possibility explains every unaccounted for psi in the Patriot footballs.

If Myth Busters wanted to really test the findings, one of the things they could do is run blind tests where one of their two gauges measure +.4 too high.

 

[Ross12]

I pulled this from another thread from @NashuaPats :

"Here's the statement from Exponent:
“In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain.”"

So even usually biased Exponent clearly states in their report that the data is too dependent upon assumptions and bad info to make any real determinations. Yet Wells does anyway.

 

[Dr Pain]

Unfortunately, Goodell will just use the 'team did not cooperate fully with investigators' angle to punish the Pats/Brady to whatever extent he wants to. It's a setup, and it stinks.

Matt Chatham ‏@chatham58 3m3 minutes ago
To former NFL players that follows me-"independent" firm in Wells Report defended league v players in concussion suit

Yea this

 

[IllegalContact]

Wetzel puts it out at a much more general level that should the need arise, lawyers will have no problem in tearing through the Well report.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-br...ensive-over-deflate-gate-probe-044707322.html

one big point is the question of Brady's cooperation and the fact that the day of interviewing Brady is barely mentioned in the report.

part of me hopes that goodell tries to throw the book at brady.

 

[Ross12]

Wetzel puts it out at a much more general level that should the need arise, lawyers will have no problem in tearing through the Well report.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-br...ensive-over-deflate-gate-probe-044707322.html

one big point is the question of Brady's cooperation and the fact that the day of interviewing Brady is barely mentioned in the report.

part of me hopes that goodell tries to throw the book at brady.

Goodell has been embarrassed by freakin' Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson... I can only imagine how badly Tom Brady would spank him in an appeals process.

 

[IllegalContact]

Goodell has been embarrassed by freakin' Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson... I can only imagine how badly Tom Brady would spank him in an appeals process.

which is why I believe whatever gets handed down will be light....lots of haters will be pissed, but as long as he has the majority of owners agreeing with him, then that's all that matters

I would not want to go into battle with this report as my ammo

 

[Dr Pain]

Scientist finds 'glaring omission' in Deflategate report http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-deflategate-scientist-050715…

 

[SalemPats]

I pulled this from another thread from @NashuaPats :

"Here's the statement from Exponent:
“In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain.”"

So even usually biased Exponent clearly states in their report that the data is too dependent upon assumptions and bad info to make any real determinations. Yet Wells does anyway.

Exactly. This report would get an F if it was done for a school class

 

[Tony2046]

Here is my email to Mythbyusters. The more they get the more likely they are to do it.

Question : Can a temperature drop from 72 degrees to 48 degrees and a cold winter rain and a 44 degree dew point cause 11 Footballs to Deflate from 12.5 PSI to:
1 11.80
2 11.20
3 11.50
4 11.00
5 11.45
6 11.95
7 12.30
8 11.55
9 11.35
10 10.90
11 11.35

This is a very big issue now and the NFL hired a firm renown for proving second hand smoke does not cause cancer and that asbestos does not cause cancer to do the science work and determined that the conditions of a football being filled at 12.5 PSI indoors at 72 degrees, measured hours later at 48 degrees outside while a colder than 48 degree rain fell on them at 44 degree dew point would not cause this PSI decline.
Here is an article on the company hired http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18
Here is the entire report and the PSI data is on page 163.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.co...s-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

Please do this myth. Tens of millions of Americans are very interested in your take.

Need to add that we do not know what the starting pressures were because two faulty gauges were used to measure the starting pressures.

Walt recollects two things:
1. That the pressures were about 12.5 and
2. He may or may not have used the Logo gauge but could have used the non-logo gauge.

That is important because one of the gauges was determined to read .3 - .4 fraudulently higher than the actual pressure. Therefor If the Pats football showed up for inspection at 12.1 psi and Walt used the gauge that read higher he would have read that the footballs were at 12.5 and if used the other gauge at half time he would have already had a built in discrepancy of ~ .4 psi. Add the weather of wet and cold to the equation and you are looking at a potential pressure loss of 1.8 - 2.0 psi.

 

[Dr Pain]

Need to add that we do not know what the starting pressures were because two faulty gauges were used to measure the starting pressures.

Walt recollects two things:
1. That the pressures were about 12.5 and
2. He may or may not have used the Logo gauge but could have used the non-logo gauge.

That is important because one of the gauges was determined to read .3 - .4 fraudulently higher than the actual pressure. Therefor If the Pats football showed up for inspection at 12.1 psi and Walt used the gauge that read higher he would have read that the footballs were at 12.5 and if used the other gauge at half time he would have already had a built in discrepancy of ~ .4 psi. Add the weather of wet and cold to the equation and you are looking at a potential pressure loss of 1.8 - 2.0 psi.

I used the higher readings here of the two, Bottom line is this fits in with what Headsmart came up with in their experiment. I just don't get this all.

 

[Danger Zone]

Need to add that we do not know what the starting pressures were because two faulty gauges were used to measure the starting pressures.

Walt recollects two things:
1. That the pressures were about 12.5 and
2. He may or may not have used the Logo gauge but could have used the non-logo gauge.

That is important because one of the gauges was determined to read .3 - .4 fraudulently higher than the actual pressure. Therefor If the Pats football showed up for inspection at 12.1 psi and Walt used the gauge that read higher he would have read that the footballs were at 12.5 and if used the other gauge at half time he would have already had a built in discrepancy of ~ .4 psi. Add the weather of wet and cold to the equation and you are looking at a potential pressure loss of 1.8 - 2.0 psi.

Wells Report pages 51-52.

Anderson is certain that he checked the footballs prior to the AFC Championship Game with one of the two gauges that he brought with him to Gillette

Although Anderson‟s best recollection is that he used the Logo Gauge, he said that it is certainly possible that he used the Non-Logo Gauge.30

Anderson's "best recollection" was that he used the Logo gauge.
Anderson states it is "certainly possible" he used the non-Logo gauge.

Wells of course, decides that Anderon's "best recollection" isn't good enough here. It would only instantly explain away .4 of the unaccounted for psi in the Patriot's footballs.

 

[Tony2046]

I've read some good replies in this thread. However, I'd make the suggestion of keeping the refuting to a succinct list of items. IMHO the answers to the below questions is what the masses need:

(5) What evidence is there of Tom Brady requested footballs be deflated after it was illegal to do so, and was the request to deflate it below required level?
(4) What evidence is there of Patriot equipment personnel deflating footballs after it was illegal to do so?
(3) What, if any, PSI discrepancy can be expected due to atmospheric conditions?
(2) What were the football PSI measurements at the next official measurement?
(1) What were the football PSI measurements at the official pregame measurement?

IMHO it is all about the answers to those questions starting at the bottom at #1 and ending at #5. Again just my two cents but keep the answers as succinct as possible -- something that even Borges and Felger could understand . A meme doesn't begin because of a 200 page answer to a 200 page report, it begins with a list of bullet points that is small yet solid in what information they convey while speaking directly to the crux of the matter.

(5) What evidence is there of Tom Brady requested footballs be deflated after it was illegal to do so, and was the request to deflate it below required level?

No. He never asks them to deflate the footballs.
Starting on page 74 of the report you can see detailed list of text messages. Actually some of the messages suggest that Tom asked for the footballs to be prepare properly prior to the game. And that he was angry that during a jets game the footballs were really tight. That portion of the discussion infers that they do not tamper with the footballs during halftime. Page 77 a text message states that they had checked the game balls the day after the game and found them to be inflated to almost 16 psi and they say "the refs F****D us. Obviously they did not tamper with the footballs during that game..


(4) What evidence is there of Patriot equipment personnel deflating footballs after it was illegal to do so?

No messages state that either deflated the footballs during the game. One message refers to McNally as the deflator but he also talks about ball preparation prior to the game.

I can see the interpretation that it is possible that they did tamper with during half time as possible but I can also see that if it was done it was to bring the balls to 12.5 range simply because of what happened during the Jets game. But that is still a guess or an assumption and it does not mean Tom knew they had done so. Tom's whole thing is that he wanted the footballs at 12.5 - 13.0 .

(3) What, if any, PSI discrepancy can be expected due to atmospheric conditions?

In the Attachment at the end of the report it breaks down the effects of temperature and weather. But they conveniently spread various data throughout the attachment.

Page 39 of the attachment -Ideal Gas Law predicts a 1.13 - 1.37 psi drop when going from locker room to field. 71 - 48 deg F

Page 63 of the excerpt states that an additional ..3 psi loss can be due to footballs being wet.

Page 20 of the attachment explains that the two gauges used were not calibrated. One gauge measure .3 to .4 above a known pressure and the other gauge read .07 below the same known pressure.

Add those up and you have a possible 1.9 -2.14 psi loss.

(2) What were the football PSI measurements at the next official measurement?

Page 3 of the attachment has all the measurements etc..

(1) What were the football PSI measurements at the official pregame measurement?

Page 52 of the main report -
"NFL game officials are not required to, and do not as a matter of standard
practice, record in writing the pressure measurements taken during their pre-game inspections of
game balls. We credit Anderson‟s recollection of the pre-game measurements taken on the day
of the AFC Championship Game based on both the level of confidence Anderson expressed in
his recollection and the consistency of his recollection with information provided by each of the
Patriots and Colts regarding their target inflation levels."

So all pressures were based on Walt Anderson's recollection of Pats 12.5 and Colts 13.0
.

 

[Tony2046]

Lol what a joke

The ball was completely soaked that day and you had 300 lb athletes tackling people and landing on it for 30 minutes..

Yea let's spray some mist on it every 15 minutes to recreate the conditions of an nfl game in Janaury played in freezing rain with world class athletes that smash into each other..

This is seriously like a troll report.. its almost like they got together and were like... let's see how much BS we can write down and get away with.. probably had bets going, with guys being like "lol there is no way anyone is going to believe that!"

Good point. What was the temperature of the water in their "spritzer" bottle used to wet the footballs during the test? Was tap water at 55 degrees??

 

[Ring 6]

Here is my email to Mythbyusters. The more they get the more likely they are to do it.

Question : Can a temperature drop from 72 degrees to 48 degrees and a cold winter rain and a 44 degree dew point cause 11 Footballs to Deflate from 12.5 PSI to:
1 11.80
2 11.20
3 11.50
4 11.00
5 11.45
6 11.95
7 12.30
8 11.55
9 11.35
10 10.90
11 11.35

This is a very big issue now and the NFL hired a firm renown for proving second hand smoke does not cause cancer and that asbestos does not cause cancer to do the science work and determined that the conditions of a football being filled at 12.5 PSI indoors at 72 degrees, measured hours later at 48 degrees outside while a colder than 48 degree rain fell on them at 44 degree dew point would not cause this PSI decline.
Here is an article on the company hired http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18
Here is the entire report and the PSI data is on page 163.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.co...s-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

Please do this myth. Tens of millions of Americans are very interested in your take.

By the way, they also used 67-71 degrees as the temp before the game (which also ignores what temp they were stored at. I've said for months there is a really good chance the Colts balls were stored on the team bus overnight) but 71-74 degrees for the halftime measurement, because they said the balls were measured in the shower room before the game and in the referee lockerroom at halftime so they guessed it was warmer.
Of course the temperature they had adjusted to is the key, not the temp of the room they just brought them into.
In many of the measurements that assumption makes the difference between within expectations and not.

 

[Gator Mike]

Page 50 of the Wells Report:

"During interviews, when asked to explain the source of their concerns about the Patriots game balls, Grigson, Sullivan, and other members of the Colts equipment staff referenced the Colts Week 11 game against the Patriots in Indianapolis. During that game, Colts strong safety Mike Adams intercepted two passes thrown by Tom Brady. On both occasions, Adams handed the footballs to Brian Seabrooks, an Assistant Equipment Manager for the Colts, on the sideline. Sullivan also examined the footballs because, as he described it, he always checks to see how other teams prepare their balls to “make sure no one is doing a better job.”

Sullivan and Seabrooks said that the intercepted footballs appeared to be coated in a tacky substance and seemed spongy or soft when squeezed. They explained that even though they did not test the air pressure of the intercepted footballs at the time, based on their years of experience, the softness of the balls raised suspicions. They also cited unspecified chatter throughout the League that the Patriots prefer their footballs softer than other teams and that visiting teams should be on guard when playing at Gillette Stadium."​

So, if Jim McNally is "the deflator", how did those two balls that were intercepted end up below pressure? Presumably, McNally did not travel to Indianapolis.

 

[Tony2046]

Another discrepancy.

What was the temperature of the rain falling during the AFC Championship game?

The rain that fell during that game could have been in the 30 degree range.

Their test used water from a squirt bottle that was kept in the environmental chamber. Which means their water only reached 48 degrees.

Just another small discrepancy that adds to the whole pie. It all adds up making their window smaller and smaller.