Kickoff rule (13 seconds left in the game)

[raduray]

Bills take the lead and then kick off with 13 seconds left in the game. The kick goes into the end zone and KC takes the ball on the 25 with no time expired and then, complete two long passes and kick the tying FG as time expires.

My and many others initial reaction was that Buffalo should have kicked short and forced a return to take some time off the board. But on reflection, I then thought that the receiver could have just kneeled and stopped the clock, with only a second having run off.

However, this morning on ESPN, Rex Ryan said that the receiver can't just take a knee. He first has to make a football move before taking the knee and that would have killed three to five seconds. This was new to me.

Can someone clarify?

 

[borg]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bills take the lead and then kick off with 13 seconds left in the game. The kick goes into the end zone and KC takes the ball on the 25 with no time expired and then, complete two long passes and kick the tying FG as time expires.

My and many others initial reaction was that Buffalo should have kicked short and forced a return to take some time off the board. But on reflection, I then thought that the receiver could have just kneeled and stopped the clock, with only a second having run off.

However, this morning on ESPN, Rex Ryan said that the receiver can't just take a knee. He first has to make a football move before taking the knee and that would have killed three to five seconds. This was new to me.

Can someone clarify?

You can take a knee, provided the official clearly sees you've given yourself up. Ryan is exaggerating. But if you kick it short and the returner takes a knee, then you're starting at like the 10-15 yard line instead of the 25 yard line. That's the thing: the Bills could have made the Chiefs decide whether to (a) return the kick, which they may have returned out past the 25, but taking time off the clock in doing so. Or, falling on the ball immediately and losing field position yardage.

The entire art of the squib kick and special teams strategies has largely vanished from the NFL, which is a shame. Although in the Bucs/Rams game, the Rams kicker was outstanding in kicking the ball to the 2-yard line every time to force a kickoff return, where the Bucs were just terrible.

 

[Nehalem]

You can take a knee, provided the official clearly sees you've given yourself up. Ryan is exaggerating. But if you kick it short and the returner takes a knee, then you're starting at like the 10-15 yard line instead of the 25 yard line. That's the thing: the Bills could have made the Chiefs decide whether to (a) return the kick, which they may have returned out past the 25, but taking time off the clock in doing so. Or, falling on the ball immediately and losing field position yardage.

The entire art of the squib kick and special teams strategies has largely vanished from the NFL, which is a shame. Although in the Bucs/Rams game, the Rams kicker was outstanding in kicking the ball to the 2-yard line every time to force a kickoff return, where the Bucs were just terrible.

The Bucs kickers seemed like they were trying to outdo the Packers for worst ST playoff performance

 

[BadMoFo]

Bills take the lead and then kick off with 13 seconds left in the game. The kick goes into the end zone and KC takes the ball on the 25 with no time expired and then, complete two long passes and kick the tying FG as time expires.

My and many others initial reaction was that Buffalo should have kicked short and forced a return to take some time off the board. But on reflection, I then thought that the receiver could have just kneeled and stopped the clock, with only a second having run off.

However, this morning on ESPN, Rex Ryan said that the receiver can't just take a knee. He first has to make a football move before taking the knee and that would have killed three to five seconds. This was new to me.

Can someone clarify?

3-5 seconds to make a football move? Maybe that's how long it would take Rex. I always thought you could call for a fair catch or take a knee on a kickoff, of course they wouldn't do that if they caught it at the 10 yard line.

 

[jeffro]

What is the rule with defensive holding in this situation? Didn't the NFL put in a rule that time can be restored for defensive holding so that it can't be used to burn time at the end of a game?

 

[BadMoFo]

You can take a knee, provided the official clearly sees you've given yourself up. Ryan is exaggerating. But if you kick it short and the returner takes a knee, then you're starting at like the 10-15 yard line instead of the 25 yard line. That's the thing: the Bills could have made the Chiefs decide whether to (a) return the kick, which they may have returned out past the 25, but taking time off the clock in doing so. Or, falling on the ball immediately and losing field position yardage.

The entire art of the squib kick and special teams strategies has largely vanished from the NFL, which is a shame. Although in the Bucs/Rams game, the Rams kicker was outstanding in kicking the ball to the 2-yard line every time to force a kickoff return, where the Bucs were just terrible.

You also have to think, kicking it short may lead to a sense of panic/urgency setting in and the returner may try and improvise and possibly blow all the time they have left. Chiefs played it perfectly, thanks to the Bills.

 

[BadMoFo]

What is the rule with defensive holding in this situation? Didn't the NFL put in a rule that time can be restored for defensive holding so that it can't be used to burn time at the end of a game?

You can do it once to burn time. Do it twice and it becomes a 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct for a “palpably unfair act” and time would be put back on the clock.

So you can't commit the NFL version of Hack-a-Shaq, but in this case the Bills would only have needed to do it once.

 

[Sciz]

What is the rule with defensive holding in this situation? Didn't the NFL put in a rule that time can be restored for defensive holding so that it can't be used to burn time at the end of a game?

There are two rules, repeating the same single foul on successive plays or committing multiple fouls on a single play. This falls under the latter, which is immediately a 15 yard penalty with time put back on the clock.

 

[upstater1]

A couple problems with all this is that Tyreek Hill was the one returning the kick and if you pooch or squib it short, he can get it to the 40-45 in a hurry, like 4 seconds off the clock. And from the 45, Mahomes can get it to the 40.

On the hold, that's what I would have done BUT what happens if the refs don't call it? Let's say you have 2 people on Tyreek, you grabbed him and take him out of the play. No call. And--it's a free play. The QB can chuck it. I would still do it because of winding the time down BUT there are problems with the play.

 

[notex]

that ending was absolutely insane. I was suprised they did that too... I thought it would have been a high kick trying to get between goal line and 10 yard line, force a few seconds off clock. Mahomes spiked ball with 3 or 4 seconds I think... so that could have made difference in getting field goal off.

Easy to 2nd guess. quite honestly, you should be able to keep a team out of field goal range with 15 seconds left or whatever it was.

 

[TheRainMaker]

A touchback was fine. No team should get into field goal range within 13 seconds starting at the 25. Not even the 2007 Pats could do it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

FYI:

The situations are different, but it's interesting to see regardless.

Bills-Chiefs: 13 seconds remaining, 1 timeout
Patriots-Chiefs: 39 second remaining, 2 timeouts

Both cases, Chiefs trail by 3 points.

Patriots kicked off to the KC 5 yard line. 7 seconds ran off the clock. Still, in just 16 seconds (and 23 seconds from the kickoff itself), Mahomes took the Chiefs all the way down to the Patriots 21 yard line. The Patriots played it smarter, but their players screwed it up even worse with Flowers jumping offsides, stopping the clock with 16 seconds left although the Chiefs were out of timeouts.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If this in a small way contributes to BB caring less about a guy's ST ability as the historical clincher to burn future 1st/2nd round picks, I am all for boring no-return kickoffs as the norm.

.

 

[Froob]

The Bucs kickers seemed like they were trying to outdo the Packers for worst ST playoff performance

Another underrated bad decision was Rams not calling a timeout end of first half, Brady had very little room to take a knee. Was really no risk for the Rams to make the Bucs take another snap backed up at their 1.

 

[BadMoFo]

FYI:

The situations are different, but it's interesting to see regardless.

Bills-Chiefs: 13 seconds remaining, 1 timeout
Patriots-Chiefs: 39 second remaining, 2 timeouts

Both cases, Chiefs trail by 3 points.

Patriots kicked off to the KC 5 yard line. 7 seconds ran off the clock. Still, in just 16 seconds (and 23 seconds from the kickoff itself), Mahomes took the Chiefs all the way down to the Patriots 21 yard line. The Patriots played it smarter, but their players screwed it up even worse with Flowers jumping offsides, stopping the clock with 16 seconds left although the Chiefs were out of timeouts.

View attachment 40349

I was pretty hammered by this point of the game, but why didn't the Chiefs take another shot at the end zone on second down?

Also, as this scenario showed us: kick it high and short and one pass play and the 13 seconds would have elapsed.

 

[upstater1]

A touchback was fine. No team should get into field goal range within 13 seconds starting at the 25. Not even the 2007 Pats could do it.

They should have done it! Brady though didn't have the timeouts. The multiple timeouts were key. And all it took for the Patriots to do it for Moss to be satisfied with the field goal (i.e. go up and get it) instead of running for a TD.

 

[Jim Beankie]

They should have done it! Brady though didn't have the timeouts. The multiple timeouts were key. And all it took for the Patriots to do it for Moss to be satisfied with the field goal (i.e. go up and get it) instead of running for a TD.

That was my thought at first, but a quick re-viewing (frickin masochist that I am assuming it's the 2007 Pats Giants SB we're talking about) showed they had 3 timeouts left. That last drive is probably used as an NFL case study for what not to do in that situation.

 

[XLIX]

Bills take the lead and then kick off with 13 seconds left in the game. The kick goes into the end zone and KC takes the ball on the 25 with no time expired and then, complete two long passes and kick the tying FG as time expires.

My and many others initial reaction was that Buffalo should have kicked short and forced a return to take some time off the board. But on reflection, I then thought that the receiver could have just kneeled and stopped the clock, with only a second having run off.

However, this morning on ESPN, Rex Ryan said that the receiver can't just take a knee. He first has to make a football move before taking the knee and that would have killed three to five seconds. This was new to me.

Can someone clarify?

Rex Ryan doesn't know what he is talking about. A player can surrender himself at any time, which immediately ends the play. In the case of a kickoff, ending the play stops the clock (change of possession).

 

[p8ryts]

I was cheering for TB and Buffalo but if you are going to play stupid defense, you deserve to lose. Don't have the slightest idea what TB was doing, apparently they didn't either. Who let's Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce roam free?