Johnathan Hankins?

[Soliel]

Just to be clear. Most Patriot players play in all sorts of fronts or schemes. You may have a few specialists but for the most part every player you see wearing a Pats jersey will be flexible enough to play various roles.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the Pats defense is a limited playbook. It's one of the more complex defenses in the league.

I was saying that in response to someone saying guys could only play 3-4 and could not play 4-3. That idea makes no sense to me

 

[Tony2046]

I was saying that in response to someone saying guys could only play 3-4 and could not play 4-3. That idea makes no sense to me

That's what I was trying to explain. Danny Shelton, for example, probably is not the best player to have on a team that prefers the 4-3 base. He's too big and too slow. Defensive tackles on a team that prefers a 4-3 base are generally lighter and faster. Danny Shelton weighs about 340 whereas a 4-3 DT weighs somewhere around 280-305.

But Shelton is a perfect NT for a 3-4 base team. He's big and powerful. You want your NT to be able to overpower an offensive lineman or command a double team.

So some will say he's a 3-4 guy.

Somebody posted this article here a few years ago. It's a great read. I'm glad I was able to find it again. Saves me from trying to stumble through my explanation.

Are Hybrid Defensive Fronts the Future of NFL Defenses?

Bottom line is that when someone says "he can't play 4-3" it really means he's better suited for a 3-4 style defense.

If you think in baseball terms some guys are better suited to play center while others are better suited to play shortstop. It doesn't mean the center fielder couldn't play shortstop it just means he probably wouldn't play it as well as a pure shortstop would and vice versa.

 

[IllegalContact]

Don’t need him.....have Brown, Guy, Shelton, and the young guys

Need linebackers

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Remember the year BB had 19 DLmen in camp? That was a throw it against the wall and see what sticks move.

 

[captain stone]

The good news is that Wise and Adam Butler, Eric Lee, Marquis Flowers (I hope he doesn't get away), and even guys like Van Noy and Roberts have a sh*t-tonne more experience in the schemes than they did at this time last season. I'm hoping for a lot more, "Oh, now I get it!" heading into the 2018 season.

Sorry, but hoping for any Eureka moments from Elandon Roberts will become an ever-lasting exercise in futility.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Sorry, but hoping for any Eureka moments from Elandon Roberts will become an ever-lasting exercise in futility.

Dude....are you even capable of saying anything remotely positive about anything involving the New England Patriots football organization?

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

While Belichicks defenses have taken many forms over the years, his classic defenses in NE were the 03-04 years that were absolutely dominant 3-4. It wouldn’t be surprising if he makes trades to better align to nickel 3-4 next year.

 

[Soliel]

That's what I was trying to explain. Danny Shelton, for example, probably is not the best player to have on a team that prefers the 4-3 base. He's too big and too slow. Defensive tackles on a team that prefers a 4-3 base are generally lighter and faster. Danny Shelton weighs about 340 whereas a 4-3 DT weighs somewhere around 280-305.

But Shelton is a perfect NT for a 3-4 base team. He's big and powerful. You want your NT to be able to overpower an offensive lineman or command a double team.

So some will say he's a 3-4 guy.

Somebody posted this article here a few years ago. It's a great read. I'm glad I was able to find it again. Saves me from trying to stumble through my explanation.

Are Hybrid Defensive Fronts the Future of NFL Defenses?

Bottom line is that when someone says "he can't play 4-3" it really means he's better suited for a 3-4 style defense.

If you think in baseball terms some guys are better suited to play center while others are better suited to play shortstop. It doesn't mean the center fielder couldn't play shortstop it just means he probably wouldn't play it as well as a pure shortstop would and vice versa.

Ok. That makes sense bro. I do want to point out though that others have flatly said here that some guys can only play one type of defense. This goes back to like week two when people were either implying or stating as fact that Gilmore was not capable of playing zone at all and from what I was seeing in the games, I could hardly see a way to argue that point so I didn’t try to. Then there were times in discussions where certain players were said to be incapable of playing like dime or nickel then others said the stuff about 4-3, 3-4 etc.
It got me thinking that defenders, in many cases, were one trick ponies who could only do one style of defense. Thanks for clearing that up as honestly, I’m not really prolific at the x and o parts of football when it comes to how that all works beyond knowing it is dime or any style defense. I’ll know what it’s supposed to be by looking usually but how it works has been a mystery. Like on the weight thing and other aspects.

 

[Deus Irae]

Dude....are you even capable of saying anything remotely positive about anything involving the New England Patriots football organization?

Did a (very) quick search. Just two posts ago (about 4 minutes after your post, according to the time stamp):

Except that Danny Playoffs was just as good last season as he ever was here.

 

[luuked]

Branch didn't contribute to the problem at the 2nd half of the season, extending to the playoffs - he was inactive.

Branch was THE single biggest issue of the entire season. Him reverting to a bum that was not even worth a roster spot completely flipped the script on our defense being effective against the run.

Add in an average Branch to the SB and we win the game by 2 scores. The Eagles OL was dominating us to the point where we could not play the run straight on but had to consistently play with tighter boxes sending more people down. This in turn gave them favorable matchups for passing plays and made the game so simple for Foles.

Branch being a corpse throughout the season exposed our mediocre LB group and took away valuable seconds for the pass rush to actually get to the QB. Everyone was in mop up duty most of the time.

So saying he was not part of the problem because he was inactive is just ignorant. HE was the single biggest failure that unfortunately could not be schemed around.

 

[maineman209]

While Belichicks defenses have taken many forms over the years, his classic defenses in NE were the 03-04 years that were absolutely dominant 3-4. It wouldn’t be surprising if he makes trades to better align to nickel 3-4 next year.

When it became apparent, circa 2010-2011, that BB had shifted from a primary 3-4 base to more of a 4-3/3-4 hybrid that incorporated more 1-gap principles, he explained at some point that it had become more difficult to find the right personnel (especially at NT) for a good 2-gap, 3-4 - since a lot of teams had begun to shift from 4-3 to 3-4 bases. This was perhaps partly a consequence of those dominant 3-4 defenses.

Anyway, the 3-4/4-3 pendulum may have begun to swing the other way around the league, so the supply of guys like Shelton and Hankins may be increasing while the supply of pass-rushing 4-3 DEs may be decreasing (they're certainly more expensive).

While I'm not yet convinced that BB intends to shift back to a pure 3-4 base (much less abandon all 4-3, 1-gap principles), this draft may hold a clue or two as to his intentions - say, if he skips the Marcus Davenport types in favor of a guy more along the lines of Da'Shawn Hand.

 

[maineman209]

Circling back from the (really nice!) 3-4/4-3 discussion to the title topic, it will be interesting to see how long it takes Hankins to get another job for 2018, who he signs with and for how much, and how long he lasts there. If BB is shifting back towards more of a 3-4 base, and Hankins becomes available again in 2019 ...?

 

[Uptown]

When it became apparent, circa 2010-2011, that BB had shifted from a primary 3-4 base to more of a 4-3/3-4 hybrid that incorporated more 1-gap principles, he explained at some point that it had become more difficult to find the right personnel (especially at NT) for a good 2-gap, 3-4 - since a lot of teams had begun to shift from 4-3 to 3-4 bases. This was perhaps partly a consequence of those dominant 3-4 defenses.

Anyway, the 3-4/4-3 pendulum may have begun to swing the other way around the league, so the supply of guys like Shelton and Hankins may be increasing while the supply of pass-rushing 4-3 DEs may be increasing (they're certainly more expensive).

While I'm not yet convinced that BB intends to shift back to a pure 3-4 base (much less abandon all 4-3, 1-gap principles), this draft may hold a clue or two as to his intentions - say, if he skips the Marcus Davenport types in favor of a guy more along the lines of Da'Shawn Hand.

Hey Maine. Good stuff. I know it’s early & I was just wondering if you meant to say “so the supply of guys like Shelton and Hankins may be increasing while the supply of pass-rushing 4-3 DEs may be decreasing?”

I could be wrong. Just an observation

 

[maineman209]

Hey Maine. Good stuff. I know it’s early & I was just wondering if you meant to say “so the supply of guys like Shelton and Hankins may be increasing while the supply of pass-rushing 4-3 DEs may be decreasing?”

I could be wrong. Just an observation

Yup. Bad edit on my part (although I'll find a way to blame the cat at some point).

 

[Uptown]

Yup. Bad edit on my part (although I'll find a way to blame the cat at some point).

Lol nah. Honest mistake. Sh*t happens.

 

[maineman209]

Lol nah. Honest mistake. Sh*t happens.

Re-edited and fixed, now. Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[Uptown]

No prob Bob!

Re-edited and fixed, now. Thanks for mentioning it!