Content Post Idle thoughts: Moral victory, or Lost opportunity....

[HSanders]

on mac...some of the struggles could be unfamiliarity with playing in bad weather. other qbs who haven't played in bad weather much might be able to overcome because of physical gifts. for mac,he needs to do it more with technique and smarts. not having bad weather experience when he was drafted is something i was concerned about with him.

 

[SVN]

Bourne is our best WR. But he doesnt lose focus once in a while which is annoying. The 3rd and 12 drop e.g

 

[Pats1971]

Lost opportunity. They were the better team for 50 minutes tonight. Offense had 13 drives, incredible field position all day long, multiple opportunities in the 4th and couldn't pull it off. It's not like they "battled" or "showed toughness", they outclassed the Eagles for the vast majority of this game. They way it unfolded, they should have won it.

This. Defense gave the offense two chances to win the game late and they failed both times.

 

[Pats1971]

I consider this the first game of his second year. And everything you say here would be said about every second year QB who ever played the pro game.

Its his 3rd year. Sorry you dont get years off if you dont like everything around you.

 

[grux]

Excellent write up patfanken. I thought the defense would be good/very good this year and they were solid yesterday. The offense looked better with BoB calling the plays and getting them prepared. My question is, when do you think the rebuild will be complete and we start winning close games?

 

[RodThePat]

My biggest take away is about Mac Jones ... when he's on a roll, he's good... there were a few drives in the middle of the game where you could see we have someone we can work with...

But... there were times, especially late 8nnthe game where he holds on to the ball way too long... his sack avoidance in high pressure situations is nil at times... more of the same, really, where we can count on him to lose big time yardage taking a sack because he can't get the ball out...

So to me this wasn't a moral victory... it was yet another opportunity for Mac to stand up, have a statement drive and by extension a statement game... and he came up small again...

This game, despite the flubs at the beginning, was within reach... while the offense looks better, they aren't getting it done... the receivers are all complimentary players... which is a problem... it's still too easy for teams to square up on Rham because of that...

I will say I thought the line play was a lot better than I thought it would be... not great, but not the disaster I was expecting given the late scratches of Strange and Onwenu...

Impressive debutes by White & Gonzales... add that to the defense, and we got something brewing...

But ultimately unless the offense learns to kick it in gear early on, all that defensive talent is going to be wasted this season....

To me Mac has an issue that is very clear: he is great at diagnosing the defense pre snap, he'll get the team into the right play, he'll set the protection, he'll understand the front, the scheme, if there's pressure coming, he has a great grasp at the line of scrimmage. But if the ball is snapped and that picture he had in his head pre snap isn't confirmed, or if a receiver loses/doesn't get the leverage he expected, or a lineman is beaten, he's not a quick enough processor to go to plan B on the jump and maintain the same level of execution. Sometimes people seem to conflate these things, but diagnosing the defense and knowing your plan of attack is a different skill from being able to read/react to movement in real time and make decisions. If the ball comes out, the intended receiver wins and everything goes to plan, he'll hit his back foot and deliver the pass with confidence, if he has to move a little off his spot or go to his second read he sputters. He has a tendency to throw while drifting back/falling away, he starts getting on his toes, the ball just doesn't come out the same. And he doesn't have the arm that allows him to challenge windows if he's a tad late. That's where he gets in trouble. But if things are humming schematically, he can ball.

 

[zydecochris]

To me Mac has an issue that is very clear: he is great at diagnosing the defense pre snap, he'll get the team into the right play, he'll set the protection, he'll understand the front, the scheme, if there's pressure coming, he has a great grasp at the line of scrimmage. But if the ball is snapped and that picture he had in his head pre snap isn't confirmed, or if a receiver loses/doesn't get the leverage he expected, or a lineman is beaten, he's not a quick enough processor to go to plan B on the jump and maintain the same level of execution. Sometimes people seem to conflate these things, but diagnosing the defense and knowing your plan of attack is a different skill from being able to read/react to movement in real time and make decisions. If the ball comes out, the intended receiver wins and everything goes to plan, he'll hit his back foot and deliver the pass with confidence, if he has to move a little off his spot or go to his second read he sputters. He has a tendency to throw while drifting back/falling away, he starts getting on his toes, the ball just doesn't come out the same. And he doesn't have the arm that allows him to challenge windows if he's a tad late. That's where he gets in trouble. But if things are humming schematically, he can ball.

Very insightful. I've always said that he is great at following to a "t" a well prepared offensive plan (IMHO, the lack of such a well prepared offensive plan that was the primary reason he crashed and burned last year), but not great at improvising, but you have worded it much more clearly. Well put.

To his credit he has improved a bit at improvising and throwing on the run, maybe he can continue to improve. Mac has always been a bit of a late bloomer, especially physically (he didn't look athletic enough to even be a punter as a freshman at Alabama). Maybe he can continue to develop. Let's hope.

 

[patfanken]

I think this team has the talent and the ability to compete with the better teams of the league with time...

I completely agree and it could be as early as next year.

however time is not a luxury that we have - the season is upon us...

Agree again. After this showing there is no reason to believe (if relatively healthy) this team will be able to compete with anyone and win up to 10 games....maybe 11, but it would take 2001 type playoff luck to compete for a superbowl.

The Fins are coming in, and that offense is explosive... If we have any hope of competing it starts with Mac Jones... I do not like Mac Jones as a quarterback... he's proven himself to be a mid tier game manager, who won't win one for you... with all that negativity aside, I do hope Mac Jones can succeed though... I want to be proven wrong...

Here's what I don't get. Mac Jones will not play a SINGLE play against that "explosive" Phin offense (and it certainly IS explosive) THAT, much like the Eagles "explosive" offense will have to be handled by the DEFENSE, not Mac Jones.

THe Phins will have a much different challenge next sunday. They will face a MUCH different defense. It will be faster, tougher and with a better overall pass rush than SD's along with better schemes. On the other hand the Pats will face a much easier OL. 2ndly it's no like the Dolphins showed much defense. They gave up over 460 yds of offense and couldn't stop the run (234yds)

On paper this still will look like a mismatch in favor of the Phins, but Philly was a MUCH worse looking mismatch before the game; Plus at SoFi there IS no real home field advantage, especially for the Chargers. There WILL be one on Sunday.

BTW- can anyone who was at the game comment on the sound factor of the new stadium configuration. Was it louder, or not?

BTW- 2. I forgot to apologize in earlier comments about the horrible mess I made with typos, tense disagreements and some sentences that made no sense whatsoever in the original post. I was surprised Thelonious didn't just give me a D and ask me for my Masters Degree back. It was too late to edit it at 4am, but I did it when I woke up around 10, so while you may not agree with it, at least it is now readable.

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

This.

My belief is that Boutee is afraid to toe tap because that’s how he broke his foot in collage. Before that he would often make a lot of toe tapping plays.

 

[RodThePat]

Very insightful. I've always said that he is great at following to a "t" a well prepared offensive plan (IMHO, the lack of such a well prepared offensive plan that was the primary reason he crashed and burned last year), but not great at improvising, but you have worded it much more clearly. Well put.

To his credit he has improved a bit at improvising and throwing on the run, maybe he can continue to improve. Mac has always been a bit of a late bloomer, especially physically (he didn't look athletic enough to even be a punter as a freshman at Alabama). Maybe he can continue to develop. Let's hope.

I think people severely underestimate Mac's mobility in general. He's not a statue, he can escape the pocket and even pick up some yards with his legs, but I think the arm is fringe at best, I'm probably even more down on that tool than most here. Yesterday every single ball he threw towards the sidelines either hung in the air for two minutes or died on him. I know it was raining and that affects grip, but I think his arm is an issue to the extent that it affects scheme and gameplan. He can throw a fade with touch into a bucket like few guys can, but that's the only sideline pass he can complete reliably. Everything else spells trouble to me. It's a huge part of the reason as to why I think he struggles in close and late situations. Whenever the defense knows they have to throw due to game context, the windows get tighter and execution starts weighing more than scheme. You're not going to scheme many receivers open on 3rd and 8 with under 3 minutes to go in a game down 4 or so. I do believe he lacks playmaking ability. Not the Patrick Mahomes, running around type, just the sitting in the pocket, going to your second read in time and threading the needle in traffic type. Ironically enough the best sidelines ball he threw all day was his last pass of the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think people severely underestimate Mac's mobility in general. He's not a statue, he can escape the pocket and even pick up some yards with his legs, but I think the arm is fringe at best, I'm probably even more down on that tool than most here. Yesterday every single ball he threw towards the sidelines either hung in the air for two minutes or died on him. I know it was raining and that affects grip, but I think his arm is an issue to the extent that it affects scheme and gameplan. He can throw a fade with touch into a bucket like few guys can, but that's the only sideline pass he can complete reliably. Everything else spells trouble to me. It's a huge part of the reason as to why I think he struggles in close and late situations. Whenever the defense knows they have to throw due to game context, the windows get tighter and execution starts weighing more than scheme. You're not going to scheme many receivers open on 3rd and 8 with under 3 minutes to go in a game down 4 or so. I do believe he lacks playmaking ability. Not the Patrick Mahomes, running around type, just the sitting in the pocket, going to your second read in time and threading the needle in traffic type. Ironically enough the best sidelines ball he threw all day was his last pass of the game.

His vision still isn’t there yet, either. He forced a throw to the boundary yesterday when he had Boutte open on a crosser with some ridiculous YAC opportunity.

 

[Pape]

Here's what I don't get. Mac Jones will not play a SINGLE play against that "explosive" Phin offense (and it certainly IS explosive) THAT, much like the Eagles "explosive" offense will have to be handled by the DEFENSE, not Mac Jones.

The concept is simple. We need to score points.

 

[Jlaff]

Well said, @patfanken

IMO it was both.

The simple fact that they fought back, moved the ball and shut down one of the best teams in the NFL after being absolutely putrid in Q1 was very encouraging. The offense looked like an actual NFL group and the D is going to keep them in games all year.

However....

Plain and simple they don't know how to win yet. They still had very, very stupid, avoidable penalties at inopportune times. They (the offense) still could not make "that play" when they needed to. Mistakes happen. Penalties happen. It's the timeliness for when they do happen is maddening.

They are a young team that is getting younger. Moving forward lets hope they can play cleaner, smarter football and rise to the occasion and make plays to win games.

Good point. If there's one moral victory worth celebrating on this, it's the fight they showed after Q1. KC - "on to Cincinnati" type fight.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Good point. If there's one moral victory worth celebrating on this, it's the fight they showed after Q1. KC - "on to Cincinnati" type fight.

When teams stop trying and just quit, that is when I check out. I will not waste my time on losers.

If the Iggles did to us what the Cowboys did to the Gints......oh boy.

 

[oceansizer]

Moral victories will not improve our position in AFC east. However I saw a real team had competed to win the game. Finally offense with some interesting ideas and Mac who was not scared of his own decisions.
I am curious how it goes.

 

[Jlaff]

How much of that Q1 do people think can be attributed to rust owing to a lack of preseason snaps for the first team offence (first time the line played together I understand) vs the rain or just something else entirely?

 

[PScottman]

What I liked best about yesterday that the justifiably maligned Pats were competitive up to the very end of the game and I wasn't disgusted with the offensive play calling and effort like I was last year.

What I loved is unlike the Bengals, Giants and other teams in similar circumstances (early big leads given up) yesterday - they KEPT FIGHTING - on week one! Now maybe that's all Brady (then there literally is nothing he can't do...in regards to football), but I don't think so.

I'm not going to sit here and proclaim they are more than what we've talked about before (a mid-level NFL football team). I expected mid-level offense and good to great defense - which is about what happened.

That said, I'm not a "stats fan" but an effort fan. Are they going to lay down or Rocky Balboa-up and take a couple punches until given an opportunity to hit back (and then do it)? Knowing this isn't all things being equal a Super Bowl team, I just want to be able to say as a fan - they're putting a competitive team on the field. No more mid-90s "going through the motions...where's my paycheck?" Patriots teams.

This team showed that yesterday - are you not entertained? Yes Maximus, I at least, assuredly am.

 

[Jlaff]

It is a missed opportunity for sure. But after last year where the Pats couldn't compete with good teams, it is a positive sign that they took the Eagles to the wire and could have won if not for several fixable things. We still have 16 games to go. The Pats showed in week one that they could go toe to toe with a Super Bowl contender. That is far more than most people around the country and even here thought was possible. Many people thought this was going to be an Eagles blowout especially after the first quarter.

If the Pats don't build on this promise, then it was clearly a missed opportunity with nothing to show for it. If they build on this, then they have a legitimate shot at the playoffs and maybe the division and may be even doing some damage in the playoffs. That is what I am focusing on right now.

Let's not pretend the Pats never competed against good teams last year. They had every opportunity to win against the Vikings, Bengals, and Packers. Air ball laterals in Las Vegas also come to mind if you count how well the Raiders started playing in the second half last year.

I know Mac surviving the 2022 hellscape of a season without killing himself is a remarkable true story of perseverance that should be made into a film (with Patricia being the 100% at fault villain of the story). But let's not pretend the Pats and Mac having (and missing) opportunities to beat good teams is some shiny new thing we can have now just because Patricia is gone.

 

[rochrist]

I would take the Eagles roster 99/100 ovre the 49ers. Eagles are stacked. And they have a really good QB

Who has WEAPONZ and yet somehow, Mac outplayed him yesterday.

 

[Rob0729]

Let's not pretend the Pats never competed against good teams last year. They had every opportunity to win against the Vikings, Bengals, and Packers. Air ball laterals in Las Vegas also come to mind if you count how well the Raiders started playing in the second half last year.

I know Mac surviving the 2022 hellscape of a season without killing himself is a remarkable true story of perseverance that should be made into a film (with Patricia being the 100% at fault villain of the story). But let's not pretend the Pats and Mac having (and missing) opportunities to beat good teams is some shiny new thing we can have now just because Patricia is gone.

The Packers had a losing record last year. The Bengals game had the Patriots come back and might have won it without the Stevenson fumble, but that was the Pats coming back in the fourth quarter more so than going head to head with the Bengals. The Vikings game might be the only one last year, but I think the Vikings were overrated because of their division sucking so bad.

And I know you hate Mac and think Patricia was a good OC who was scapegoated and your obsession with me and your perceived beliefs that all my comments are defending Mac. But my comment was not specifically about Mac or even the offense. Last year the defense struggled against the really good teams too, not just the offense. I was talking about all three phases of the team, not just Mac and the offense.