Cowboys draft board

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yeah, that's something you and I (and many others) would all love to take a look at, soak in, and discuss.

Unfortunately for us I do not foresee the Pats actual draft board showing up on SB Nation, Bleacher Report, or any other similar website any time soon, if at all in our lifetimes.

What we need is those Chinese govt cyber sleuths who stole the plans and data on all our weapons systems to go get us the Pats draft board info. Then again, it's too insurmountable a task even for them. My bad.

 

[Sfpat]

What we need is those Chinese govt cyber sleuths who stole the plans and data on all our weapons systems to go get us the Pats draft board info. Then again, it's too insurmountable a task even for them. My bad.

Not sure the Chinese would be successful. The Pats probably have better security than the US military

 

[BradyFTW!]

So let me get this straight...

According to the reconstruction, Sharrif Floyd was #5 overall on Dallas' big board, they had him as the 5th best prospect in the whole draft. But when the Cowboys were on the clock at #18 overall, and he was still there, they traded back to pick #31. There, they selected a player who they had a 2nd round grade on.

I love Robert Kraft.

No kidding. It's one thing to go against the Mel Kipers of the world. It's another thing to go so thoroughly against your own internal rankings. Definitely looks like they were purely drafting for need, which is never a good idea in the first round. If, in 3 years, it turns out that DT is a position of need, they're going to look back at decisions like this and realize how badly they screwed up. (this, incidentally, is Belichick's exact stated philosophy).

 

[BradyFTW!]

I read an article a couple weeks back about the Cowboys problems and it mentioned then how they had Floyd as the top player on their board when the 18th pick came up but they didn't like his sack numbers so they decided to trade down. While I'm not comparing the players or predicting greatness for Floyd, I instantly thought of Richard Seymour, who only had 1.5 sacks in the pass happy SEC. (I'm sure most of us remember the whole quote I'm referencing )

Imagine if we did the same thing, if we had rated Seymour as high as we took him but talked ourself out of it based on stats. (which apparently the Cowboys didn't look at before ranking Floyd in their top 5, what changed on draft day?)

Wow. No wonder they're consistently overrated and not all that good. That's what happens when you ignore everything else in order to draft guys at glamour positions based on the most casual, quantitative stats available. You get a bunch of guys that Mel Kiper loves, then miss out on all of the things that actually win you football games.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

jerry jones, draft expert ?

 

[Urgent]

The pokes have 132 player-positions charted in a draft that had 254 players chosen.

I assume that simply means they had absolutely NO INTEREST in the other 50% (60% if consider UDFAs) of the available players for one reason or another. Either that or they are really bad at math.

So anyway I dont think you can draw any conclusions about where somebody WHO IS NOT ON the BOys board OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN DRAFTED (ex - Harmon). consider rd 1 for example. they only have 18 Rd 1 guys charted - that means that 14 guys who were going to be rd 1 picks aren't listed - could one of those been Harmon in their eyes. (prob not - but who knows)

Well, the analyst drew a conclusion based on his study of Dallas' draft strategy.

They eliminated shorter corners (Honey Badger, for example) and safeties (Matt Elam).
They targeted smaller, faster linebackers and defensive tackles. All the big DT's were not listed because they did not fit their scheme.

They eliminated some players with significant injury histories - Jarvis Jones, Keenan Allen, Marcus Lattimore.

This makes perfect sense - I doubt any team would draft all of the 250-odd players that end up being drafted, because team's have different schemes, different needs, and different emphases. The Patriots may well have a short list like this - and if they get to their spot and there is no one that represents value, they like to try to trade down.

The conjecture that they had players not listed who they valued as first rounders, like Harmon, doesn't make sense.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow. No wonder they're consistently overrated and not all that good. That's what happens when you ignore everything else in order to draft guys at glamour positions based on the most casual, quantitative stats available. You get a bunch of guys that Mel Kiper loves, then miss out on all of the things that actually win you football games.

Swap Romo for Brady, and swap the teams' divisions, and they're probably making the same claims in the other fan base.

 

[BWareofDWare]

Not going to get torn up over the fact that the Cowboys don't like the Pats' picks. Cowboys aren't exactly great at drafting, to say the least.

2010-2012 have been pretty solid drafts for Dallas, but regardless I think even if Dallas had won 3 straight Super Bowls it would be dumb to get worked up about these grades. This isn't Dallas grading what the players would be worth to the Patriots. New England is grading players that fit New England's scheme, and Dallas is grading players that fit their scheme. The two-gap concept in New England is entirely different from what Dallas runs on defense, and a guy like Dobson might be a 5th rounder on the Dallas board because he's less of a fit in a vertical offense, but perfect in the Pats scheme. Same for zone vs press corners, power vs zone linemen, and pretty much every other position.

 

[BWareofDWare]

I wonder what the star on Logan Ryan's name card meant

Big thing with Garrett the past few years has been finding players who are "RKG's" which stands for Right Kinda Guy. Basically guys who are believed to be high-character, intelligent, and love football. The stars were for players who were believed to be exemplary in that department.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

2010-2012 have been pretty solid drafts for Dallas, but regardless I think even if Dallas had won 3 straight Super Bowls it would be dumb to get worked up about these grades. This isn't Dallas grading what the players would be worth to the Patriots. New England is grading players that fit New England's scheme, and Dallas is grading players that fit their scheme. The two-gap concept in New England is entirely different from what Dallas runs on defense, and a guy like Dobson might be a 5th rounder on the Dallas board because he's less of a fit in a vertical offense, but perfect in the Pats scheme. Same for zone vs press corners, power vs zone linemen, and pretty much every other position.

Sweet, a Cowboys fan. So whats the deal with passing up Floyd (#5 on the big board) to ultimately get Frederick (#22)?

Is it that positional need made drafting a center very important? Or would you suppose that there wasn't that much difference between their #5 and #22 players?

Its strange because Floyd (who I hated as a prospect and IMO wasn't worth the 18th overall pick anyway) was touted as an under tackle, and Monte Kiffin's defenses always feature a lot of under fronts. So if they were so high on him its strange to see them turn him down....

 

[BWareofDWare]

Sweet, a Cowboys fan. So whats the deal with passing up Floyd (#5 on the big board) to ultimately get Frederick (#22)?

Is it that positional need made drafting a center very important? Or would you suppose that there wasn't that much difference between their #5 and #22 players?

Its strange because Floyd (who I hated as a prospect and IMO wasn't worth the 18th overall pick anyway) was touted as an under tackle, and Monte Kiffin's defenses always feature a lot of under fronts. So if they were so high on him its strange to see them turn him down....

Scouts versus Coaches is what it sounds like it came down to. Kiffin and Marinelli hated Floyd as they don't think he is scheme versatile, while the scouts thought he is a dominant enough run-stuffer to be a Top 5 player. My gut says they should have listened to the scouts in the process and there were too many chefs in the kitchen, but the Cowboys offensive line is bad enough that I don't mind reaching there.

 

[captain stone]

Good stuff BWare. Feel free to chime in whenever.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Scouts versus Coaches is what it sounds like it came down to. Kiffin and Marinelli hated Floyd as they don't think he is scheme versatile, while the scouts thought he is a dominant enough run-stuffer to be a Top 5 player. My gut says they should have listened to the scouts in the process and there were too many chefs in the kitchen, but the Cowboys offensive line is bad enough that I don't mind reaching there.

I gotcha.

As a fan, it shocked me to see an NFL team go that far off script. The board theoretically represents a year of research, and to ditch it in the 11th hour seems strange.

On the other hand, Kiffin is probably right about Floyd. One dimensional and overrated. So while the methodology may have been questionable (too many chefs in the kitchen), the outcome (Frederick and Williams instead of Floyd) was the better one as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Off The Grid]

I think y'all need to stow your Yankee Arrogance, take a deep breath, and admit that we can learn something from these guys: The CowBoys have put together a Team that has performed at a superior ~ nay: a dominant ~ level, year after year after year, for longer than most'f us've been alive.





Wait a minute.





We're not talking about CheerLeaders???





Oh.





Well, then, who cares what those dumb bastards have to say???

*Edit: No offense, Brother Ware: Just cracking wise.

 

[nabwong]

I found it!!!! The Pats super secret draft board.....

You got the censured one. It's actually this.

 

[VrabelJr]

Cowboys draft boards read more like a dart board created by a blind folded drunk person.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

They totally screwed up on Datone Jones. I think he was the steal of draft if you can call a guy drafted at 26 a steal

 

[goheels22002]

Swap Romo for Brady, and swap the teams' divisions, and they're probably making the same claims in the other fan base.

I doubt that. This is a great discussion topic for another thread. But if you bring the whole package except Romo to the AFC East, you still have a series of coaches and an owner with Dallas that made horrible decisions about personnel and how to manage the cap to what has been a division with as much up and down as the NFC East since 2001.

The Cowboys have what, one playoff win in 18 years? They're worse that the Jets. Add Brady and that improves a bit but the depth of the Cowboys has been awful. They've travelled a similar path as the Redskins and Raiders with big name free agents only to have their seasons derailed by a couple of key injuries.

Put the Krafts, Belichick and the Patriots with Romo at QB in the NFC East and the Redskins would still be the doormat they've been until RG3, but Coughlin and Andy Reid might not have survived down years with the Patriots in their division. Besides, with Romo's 1-3 record in playoffs and propensity for turnovers, Belichick would have shipped him out for draft picks long ago.

I don't know if this chart makes your point or mine, but Tony Romo is right there with the immortal Steve DeBerg on the all-time playoff win-loss list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_starting_quarterback_playoff_records

What you really would have in the NFC East would be three extraordinarily successful and consistent ownership and front office groups in the Patriots, Giants and Eagles for the past 12 years. Amazing to think about that.

Jerry Jones and his crew would have fit right into the AFC East which has been a circus of showboats in NYJ and Miami and ineptitude in Buffalo.

By the way, welcome back.

 

[Claremonster]

I found it!!!! The Pats super secret draft board.....

Invisible ink...

 

[supafly]

I doubt that. This is a great discussion topic for another thread. But if you bring the whole package except Romo to the AFC East, you still have a series of coaches and an owner with Dallas that made horrible decisions about personnel and how to manage the cap to what has been a division with as much up and down as the NFC East since 2001.

As you said, this would indeed be a great topic of debate for another thread, so I don't want to continue moving in a wrong direction. I do think that the topic may have more merits to a 'back and forth' debate vs a one sided debate than you may think.

For one thing, Romo is one of a few select QBs who have ever reached 7 consecutive seasons over a QB rating of 90, so that is definitely a point in his favor that many don't realize.

Another thing is that Romo's all-time completion percentage in 65%, which is pretty damn good. He also has a 2/1 TD to INT ratio. Most importantly, his all-time career QB rating is right on par with our own Tom Brady, right around 95-96....so obviously you need to take all of those stats into account when attempting to assess his importance on another much more successful team such as our own N.England Patriots, and I would imagine that those were some of the things that Deus was thinking when he made the comment.

Football is a team sport, so I don't personally put as much credibility into his 1-3 playoff record as you might, although I certainly understand your point and concerns about his tendency to committ too many untimely turnovers.

It should be noted that the numbers provided in the 3rd paragraph are not too well known throughout the general football world in regards to what the "average" fan thinks, and even though he has shown some poor decisions in turning the ball over, having an all-time 2/1 TD to INT ratio doesn't prove that point as much as one would think.

I still wouldn't want him on my team by any means, but he's definitely a much better option than they could've had if they chose to start over with a rookie draft pick, and he does have many numbers in his favor. I'm sure he would indeed do much better on a more successful team with better players and mgmt around him.

.

By the way, welcome back.

:rocker: