Cassel can relax until March

[ctpatsfan77]

Not true. In 2006 John Abraham was traded a month before the draft. A team does not need to have 2 1st round picks in the 2009 draft. They could give a 2009 1st round pick and a 2010 1st round pick.

I'm not sure they'd be allowed to satisfy the rule by giving up both #1s from 2009--but it's possible. I say this because, for example, you can't use a lower pick than your own in a given round to satisfy the requirements for an RFA tender.

 

[spacecrime]

The Patriots can improve what Cassel gets by sending him to a team that will offer a long term deal and is in a good situation.

????? As a free agent Cassel can go to any team he wants, and have other teams bid against each other. THe team can offer more because they aren't giving up a draft pick to get him. Cassel's situation isn't improved by being forced into the team the Patriots want. This is ludicrous.

The Patriots can trade him wherever they want if he signs the Franchise offer, they just wouldn't get as much for a guy only signed for one year.

Wow, how many times will people say the Pats can trade him where ever they want whether Cassel likes it or not.

Cassel has ultimate say simply by not signing the franchise agreement. He doesn't have to go to training camp if he doesn't want to. Now sit back and think, and then tell me which team will give $14 for a QB whose agent warns them that Cassel doesn't want to be there and will not attend training camp and will only be there one year.

All you franchise-and-trade guys need to understand this in NOT like Branch. The Pats have ZERO leverage. Cassel can agree to be franchised and traded, but if he does not, the Pats simply cannot force a trade against his will.

Accept this, PLEASE, and stop the silly statements.

If the Pats franchise Cassel, it is bad news about Brady and means to look for Matt to start in 2009.

 

[BelichickFan]

Wow, how many times will people say the Pats can trade him where ever they want whether Cassel likes it or not.


Cassel has ultimate say simply by not signing the franchise agreement.

How about reading what I wrote ? Your quote of me said :

"The Patriots can trade him wherever they want if he signs the Franchise offer"

Got it ???

If he signs it, which he would sooner or later rather than have no contract, they could trade him to whoever they wanted to. Sure it would be MUCH better to trade him to a team he wants to go to. But if they just wanted to dump the $14M contract they could trade him anywhere and get very little for him, just getting out of the deal. It shouldn't come to that though.

 

[alamo]

All you franchise-and-trade guys need to understand this in NOT like Branch. The Pats have ZERO leverage. Cassel can agree to be franchised and traded, but if he does not, the Pats simply cannot force a trade against his will.

"ZERO leverage" is a huge overstatement. He would be as much in limbo as the Patriots. If he never signs, he could be franchised again. If he signs, and he plays for the Patriots and gets injured, his future payday could evaporate.

While he has more leverage than Deion Branch did, it is still in his interests to get a deal done. He would likely not reject a reasonable deal.

 

[BelichickFan]

"ZERO leverage" is a huge overstatement. He would be as much in limbo as the Patriots. If he never signs, he could be franchised again. If he signs, and he plays for the Patriots and gets injured, his future payday could evaporate.

Not signing actually works for the Patriots as it controls where he goes - nowhere. I want draft picks for him but I also don't want him going to the NJ Jets and sitting at home accomplishes the second part; not that there's a chance in hell that he wouldn't eventually sign.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we exagerating. The patriots don't have zero leverage, just very little.

Cassel can wait until the draft, or later, to sign the franchise tag, and then Cassel could be sent anywhere and be forced to play for anyone the patriots sent him to for a guaranteed $14M for 2009. He could take his $14M and then try again next year. Until the time of signing and trade, the patriots will have to take the $14M cap hit and be very contrained in free agency.

Usually when something benefits all parties, it will take place. It makes sense to allow Cassel's agent to speak with any team but the jets and buffalo. Those teams would then bring offers to the patriots. A draft choice would be given to the patriots for lifting the tag, with the understanding from Cassel that Cassel will then sign a pre-stiuplated deal with the team involved. Everyone wins; the earlier the better.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, we exagerating. The patriots don't have zero leverage, just very little.

Cassel can wait until the draft, or later, to sign the franchise tag, and then Cassel could be sent anywhere and be forced to play for anyone the patriots sent him to for a guaranteed $14M for 2009. He could take his $14M and then try again next year. Until the time of signing and trade, the patriots will have to take the $14M cap hit and be very contrained in free agency.

Usually when something benefits all parties, it will take place. It makes sense to allow Cassel's agent to speak with any team but the jets and buffalo. Those teams would then bring offers to the patriots. A draft choice would be given to the patriots for lifting the tag, with the understanding from Cassel that Cassel will then sign a pre-stiuplated deal with the team involved. Everyone wins; the earlier the better.

If Cassel is franchised, he's done. There's nothing he can do other than refusing to sign the tender. If he does that, he doesn't get paid. Next year he can be tendered again. In theory, a team could franchise him yet again. Before Cassel can get his 'freedom', there will either be a new CBA in place or there will be no football with the NFLPA. The ridiculous jumps in the salary cap under the 'current' CBA have given teams the kind of money that will allow them to survive with 2 high priced quarterbacks if they feel a need to.

New England holds the cards. They didn't have the same kind of leverage over Samuel because he was a starter that they needed in the lineup. Cassel will be the backup, so every week he isn't there will be a week's worth of money saved by Mr. Kraft. If he's traded, the power to keep him for years will reside in his new team, Cassel will have lost the ability to have any say in his destination, and the new team will still control his rights for years.

As for the notion that the Patriots will be constrained in free agency, I can only suggest that you take a look at how little they'll be losing this offseason while still having about $8 million in cap space even if Cassel's taking up the $14 million and point out to you that there will be plenty of players still under contract who can always be approached about restructuring and/or extensions.

 

[Miguel]

I'm not sure they'd be allowed to satisfy the rule by giving up both #1s from 2009--but it's possible. I say this because, for example, you can't use a lower pick than your own in a given round to satisfy the requirements for an RFA tender.

Yes, it is possible but why would a team give up a 2009 first round pick when it could give up a 2010 first round pick instead??

 

[Miguel]

Cassel can agree to be franchised and traded, but if he does not, the Pats simply cannot force a trade against his will.

See Corey Simon and the Eagles. He was franchised by the Eagles. The Eagles had talked a trade with the Ravens. Simon could not come to an agreement with the Ravens. Trade never happened. Eagles later rescinded the franchise tag.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Matt should make sure the team knows that his agent can contact him if needed. There is nothing else for Matt to do until March 2nd (I'm giving his agent the weekend to evaluate the situation), at which time his agent can inform him of his options depending on whether he is tagged or not. Until then he is under contract.

Matt will be very rich, probably before the draft. At very least, he will be guaranteed $14M for signing a one-year contract to play for the patriots if he is franchised. Even after tax, that is $600K a year forever. If he is not franchised, his agent will have several lucrative contract offers for him to consider and choose among.

Cassel has no reason to consider any contract offers from the patriots. He is a free agent. Under the CBA, the next move belongs to the patriots.

=================================================

I understand that there have been many other threads on this subject, but it is an issue that will affect many other patriot 2009 decisions.

The patriots can make Cassel be the ball boy and pay him ONLY $14M for this year. Is there any other leverage they have? Perhaps someone here believes that Detroit (or someone else) would give the patriots two first rounders to have Cassel for a year. Does Any one believe this?

The other reason that things won't move until March is that the Pats will have a much better idea of Brady's status at that time. I will bring the 2,000 pound gorilla out of the corner over there and say that it is not out of the question that Matt will be the one to stay and Brady the one to be traded. No matter how much I personally might find that thought unpleasant, that possibility will have to be part of the equation as we think of this over the next ten weeks. The NFL is a business first and foremost and we don't yet know what the best business decision will be.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you say.

 

[BelichickFan]

See Corey Simon and the Eagles. He was franchised by the Eagles. The Eagles had talked a trade with the Ravens. Simon could not come to an agreement with the Ravens. Trade never happened. Eagles later rescinded the franchise tag.

That doesn't mean the trade COULDN'T happen, just that it didn't. Most likely the Ravens didn't want an unhappy player, fine. But if we found a team that would give us a 2013 #7 to risk the money for one year that they could talk him into being happy then the trade could happen without Cassel's consent; that's all I'm saying.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

And to those wondering why a team should drop a high pick on Cassel?

Since '99 31 QB's have gone in the first round, only 10-12 have been 'successful.'

Only 15 took their team to the playoffs once.

At least 13 have been busts, though it's still early for Russell and Leinart.

Trading for Cassel gets you a player you can much more accurately project as successful because he's already played extensively in the NFL and finished his first full-time season as the 10th best passer in the league.

Plus, you wouldn't have to factor in the 1-2 year learning curve all but the very best suffer through. BTW, Matt Ryan and Flacco finished behind Cassel.

There are two powerful arguments against drafting a college QB who has slightly more than an 1 in 3 chance to make it big in the NFL. You get much more of a sure thing and a guy who can start now in Cassel for the same pick (and money, or maybe even less) that you might waste on a dude who never makes it. All this makes Cassel worth AT LEAST a number one, probably more.

 

[BelichickFan]

And to those wondering why a team should drop a high pick on Cassel?

Since '99 31 QB's have gone in the first round, only 10-12 have been 'successful.'

I'd be curious how many of them came out early (not Seniors). Juniors have a much higher bust rate and there isn't a single highly ranked Senior in this year's class.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Yes, we exagerating. The patriots don't have zero leverage, just very little.

Cassel can wait until the draft, or later, to sign the franchise tag, and then Cassel could be sent anywhere and be forced to play for anyone the patriots sent him to for a guaranteed $14M for 2009. He could take his $14M and then try again next year. Until the time of signing and trade, the patriots will have to take the $14M cap hit and be very contrained in free agency.

Usually when something benefits all parties, it will take place. It makes sense to allow Cassel's agent to speak with any team but the jets and buffalo. Those teams would then bring offers to the patriots. A draft choice would be given to the patriots for lifting the tag, with the understanding from Cassel that Cassel will then sign a pre-stiuplated deal with the team involved. Everyone wins; the earlier the better.

Agreed. What will happen here, assuming Brady is healthy, is the Pats will talk to other teams interested in Cassel over the next few months and discuss possible trade options. They will also then put those to Cassel himself. If it all works out they'll do it so it benefits all parties. But if Cassel doesnt want to play for team X say then we either let him walk or sit him next season .. my view is this all gets done nice and to the benefit of all. My guess, the 49ers

 

[mgteich]

My guess is Cleveland, with the patriots getting one of the Cleveland QB's in trade in addition to a high pick.

Agreed. What will happen here, assuming Brady is healthy, is the Pats will talk to other teams interested in Cassel over the next few months and discuss possible trade options. They will also then put those to Cassel himself. If it all works out they'll do it so it benefits all parties. But if Cassel doesnt want to play for team X say then we either let him walk or sit him next season .. my view is this all gets done nice and to the benefit of all. My guess, the 49ers

 

[BelichickFan]

My guess is Cleveland, with the patriots getting one of the Cleveland QB's in trade in addition to a high pick.

I doubt it, I think the Browns will dump Anderson and commit to Quinn. SF, Minnesota, TB make a lot of sense to me in a win-win-win way.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

My guess is Cleveland, with the patriots getting one of the Cleveland QB's in trade in addition to a high pick.

No, either Cleveland QB will be along in their contracts and would present too high a cap hit as a backup QB, assuming of course that we trade Cassel knowing Brady is healthy. BB pays vet minimum for backup vet QBs, e.g. Testaverde, Flutie...

Note that BB also HAS a developing young backup in O'Connell, a kid who will be along in the seasoning curve and who has substantial running ability supposedly better than Cassel who was outstanding.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

And to those wondering why a team should drop a high pick on Cassel?

Since '99 31 QB's have gone in the first round, only 10-12 have been 'successful.'

Only 15 took their team to the playoffs once.

At least 13 have been busts, though it's still early for Russell and Leinart.

Trading for Cassel gets you a player you can much more accurately project as successful because he's already played extensively in the NFL and finished his first full-time season as the 10th best passer in the league.

Plus, you wouldn't have to factor in the 1-2 year learning curve all but the very best suffer through. BTW, Matt Ryan and Flacco finished behind Cassel.

There are two powerful arguments against drafting a college QB who has slightly more than an 1 in 3 chance to make it big in the NFL. You get much more of a sure thing and a guy who can start now in Cassel for the same pick (and money, or maybe even less) that you might waste on a dude who never makes it. All this makes Cassel worth AT LEAST a number one, probably more.

there is also a powerful argument against using a high draftpick on a vet QB.............rob johnson, scott mitchell, aj feeley, drew bledsoe

 

[mgteich]

????

Cassel wouldn't sign until after the draft. He certainly would sign before the first game of the season. Of course, he'd sign and get the guaranteed $14M for 2009. And yes, then the patriots can trade him to Detroit for a 6th round pick, or whatever they would pay for a one-year QB at $14M. Cassel will not lose one dime, not one.

If you think that the patriots can afford $14M in cap money for a backup QB until September when Brady is healthy, I can only suggest a study of Miguel's sheets and a lesson in arithmetic. I would suggest that you prepare a Day One roster with salary amounts. I suppose you could expect to replace Wright and James Sanders in the draft and pick up a few veterans at minimum. Yes, we could operate with $14M less, but it would be a much better team if we used the $14M to sign and extend players.

BTW, your $8M of cap money avaiulable will need to be used to sign the last 9 players to the squad, including rookies, plus anyone who ends up on IR.

If Cassel is franchised, he's done. There's nothing he can do other than refusing to sign the tender. If he does that, he doesn't get paid. Next year he can be tendered again. In theory, a team could franchise him yet again. Before Cassel can get his 'freedom', there will either be a new CBA in place or there will be no football with the NFLPA. The ridiculous jumps in the salary cap under the 'current' CBA have given teams the kind of money that will allow them to survive with 2 high priced quarterbacks if they feel a need to.

New England holds the cards. They didn't have the same kind of leverage over Samuel because he was a starter that they needed in the lineup. Cassel will be the backup, so every week he isn't there will be a week's worth of money saved by Mr. Kraft. If he's traded, the power to keep him for years will reside in his new team, Cassel will have lost the ability to have any say in his destination, and the new team will still control his rights for years.

As for the notion that the Patriots will be constrained in free agency, I can only suggest that you take a look at how little they'll be losing this offseason while still having about $8 million in cap space even if Cassel's taking up the $14 million and point out to you that there will be plenty of players still under contract who can always be approached about restructuring and/or extensions.

 

[BelichickFan]

there is also a powerful argument against using a high draftpick on a vet QB.............rob johnson, scott mitchell, aj feeley, drew bledsoe

Rob Johnson had 108 career passes, 1 TD, 3 INT when he was traded for.
Scott Mitchell had 241 career passes, 12 TD, 9 INT when he was traded for.
AJ Feely had 141 career passes, 8 TD, 8 INT when he was traded for.

Matt Cassel has 555 career passes, 23 TD, 13 INT.

A little different track record.