A theory for discussion: BB interest in Peppers a ruse?

[miDeuce]

I think the Pats are the only player in this. Peppers already stated that he will only play for one of 3 NFC teams or one AFC team...the Pats. Carolina wants him out of the NFC so they would prefer to deal with the Pats. It doesn't matter if it's leaked. Heck, it's been leaking for weeks. What's the difference? Also, don't try to second guess Belichick. You'll go crazy.

First of all, I would never second guess the hoodie. This just doesn't seem like his MO at all. I can't recall a single time there's been a long public courtship for a player of Peppers magnitude.Of course whenever you think BB will zig, he zags so maybe this is all true. But if you're another NFL GM and you hear it's only gonna take a high second round pick wouldn't you go after him? Is Carolina gonna turn down a better draft pick for him?

Who knows. As much as I'd love to see Peppers on the Pats my gut is telling me that they're going after someone else or have other plans for replacing Vrabel.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

No way is this a ruse. Bill Belichick LOVES Julius Peppers. I went back to the Carolina game in 2005 to see what he thought of him, and this is what I found. If you don't want to read all of it, he basically thinks Peppers is the Randy Moss of Defense, and even makes comparisons between him and Lawrence Taylor. Now add 4 more years of experience.

9/14/2005
Q: They didn’t seem to move Peppers around much.
BB: I don’t think they need to move him. He causes plenty of problems where he is. He’s a hard guy to deal with. He’s hard to run at. He’s hard to throw at. That’s where most of the right-handed quarterbacks have to throw, into that left side. He’s a factor there one way or the other. Because the offense usually extends a little bit to try to take care of him, they like to bring to the linebackers and blitz them up inside, whether it’s [Will] Witherspoon or Morgan or [Brandon] Short, whoever it is. So, as the line widens, to take Peppers and give attention to Peppers, that opens up a lot of the inside pressures for them. So, they do a good job of that. He’s a good player. We talked about last week [Randy] Moss being kind of in a special category offensively for the Raiders. I think you have to put Peppers in that same, whatever category that is, defensively. You have to know where he is every play. If they move him, they move him. If they don’t, sometimes they drop him. Sometimes they stunt him. A lot of times when they move him, they move him after the snap. In other words, the ball is snapped and he’s stunts down inside or he’s on a gain or something like that. It’s not like he doesn’t move off of that spot. But, for the most part, he does align there. At times he reduces down. But for the most part, he is on that tackle.

Q: What about when he was at receiver? Didn’t they throw him a couple of jump balls in the corner of the end zone last year?
BB: Yes. Well, he has played tight end.

Q: What do you do there?
BB: It’s hard. He’s a hard guy to match up against. The guy could probably play… he certainly could play outside linebacker. We know he can play defensive end. I imagine he could probably move inside and play defensive tackle. There's no question he could play tight end. He probably could play offensive tackle. He's 290-something pounds. You're talking about a guy that could probably play six or seven positions on the field. That's pretty unusual.

9/15/2005
Q: How has Julius Peppers improved in since you last played him in the Super Bowl?
BB: Well, we played him last year in the preseason. So, we got a good look at him down there too. He played a lot in that game. I think he is essentially the same player, but he is more experienced, he reads some plays quicker, reacts quicker, and uses his hands. He used them well, but he's even improved on that. He's a hard guy to fool and even if you do get him out of position a little bit, he's such a great athlete, he has a lot of speed and power that he can recover very quickly. Again, it's different, but similar to coaching a player like Lawrence Taylor who, in all honesty, was out of position quite a bit, but he was such an exceptional athlete and was so fast and explosive, even though he was out of position, he could recover and still get back in on the play, which most players really can't do, or they can't do it as well as he could. Peppers is a little bit in that category. He makes a lot of plays and then there's times when he is a little bit out of position, but he recovers very quickly.

Q: How does he influence what an offense does?
BB: Well, I think you have to account for him every play. You have to know where he is. He can ruin the game. Just like he did with the Giants. He ruined [Eli] Manning for about a month, too. He went in there, they had him double teamed, he blew past the tackle, strip sacked the ball and messed up Manning's elbow, scooped it up and ran in for a 60-yard touchdown. It doesn't get any worse than that. But, that is the kind of play he can make. And he was supposed to be doubled on the play, too. He's an impact player. You have to know where he is. You have to defend him. He beat us inside on a rush down there in the preseason game last year, I don't know, for about a 15, 17-yard sack, whatever it was. We don't have any quarterbacks that can run away from him. I can tell you that. If he's after us, he's going to get us. He's a lot faster than we are.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

You're a pretty trusting guy if you think a football agent wouldn't make a statement of that nature in order to let another AFC team think they need to overpay for Peppers.

I hate to be the one to break this to you but agents do that sort of thing all the time.

Since BB has gotten to Foxboro, the Pats front office has operated constantly in CIA mode, so it has to be the agent leaking this.

Unless there is a cautious market for Peppers, what does Carolina hope to gain by the leak?

 

[miDeuce]

No way is this a ruse. Bill Belichick LOVES Julius Peppers.

Great find. Thanks for posting. You win best first post ever in my book.

Now I want him even more. I don't really care about how to fit him under the salary cap, just imagining how fun this defense would be to watch with BB moving him all over the place... wow! Let's hope it's for real.

 

[Mogamedogz]

No way is this a ruse. Bill Belichick LOVES Julius Peppers. I went back to the Carolina game in 2005 to see what he thought of him, and this is what I found. If you don't want to read all of it, he basically thinks Peppers is the Randy Moss of Defense, and even makes comparisons between him and Lawrence Taylor. Now add 4 more years of experience.

9/14/2005
Q: They didn’t seem to move Peppers around much.
BB: I don’t think they need to move him. He causes plenty of problems where he is. He’s a hard guy to deal with. He’s hard to run at. He’s hard to throw at. That’s where most of the right-handed quarterbacks have to throw, into that left side. He’s a factor there one way or the other. Because the offense usually extends a little bit to try to take care of him, they like to bring to the linebackers and blitz them up inside, whether it’s [Will] Witherspoon or Morgan or [Brandon] Short, whoever it is. So, as the line widens, to take Peppers and give attention to Peppers, that opens up a lot of the inside pressures for them. So, they do a good job of that. He’s a good player. We talked about last week [Randy] Moss being kind of in a special category offensively for the Raiders. I think you have to put Peppers in that same, whatever category that is, defensively. You have to know where he is every play. If they move him, they move him. If they don’t, sometimes they drop him. Sometimes they stunt him. A lot of times when they move him, they move him after the snap. In other words, the ball is snapped and he’s stunts down inside or he’s on a gain or something like that. It’s not like he doesn’t move off of that spot. But, for the most part, he does align there. At times he reduces down. But for the most part, he is on that tackle.

Q: What about when he was at receiver? Didn’t they throw him a couple of jump balls in the corner of the end zone last year?
BB: Yes. Well, he has played tight end.

Q: What do you do there?
BB: It’s hard. He’s a hard guy to match up against. The guy could probably play… he certainly could play outside linebacker. We know he can play defensive end. I imagine he could probably move inside and play defensive tackle. There's no question he could play tight end. He probably could play offensive tackle. He's 290-something pounds. You're talking about a guy that could probably play six or seven positions on the field. That's pretty unusual.

9/15/2005
Q: How has Julius Peppers improved in since you last played him in the Super Bowl?
BB: Well, we played him last year in the preseason. So, we got a good look at him down there too. He played a lot in that game. I think he is essentially the same player, but he is more experienced, he reads some plays quicker, reacts quicker, and uses his hands. He used them well, but he's even improved on that. He's a hard guy to fool and even if you do get him out of position a little bit, he's such a great athlete, he has a lot of speed and power that he can recover very quickly. Again, it's different, but similar to coaching a player like Lawrence Taylor who, in all honesty, was out of position quite a bit, but he was such an exceptional athlete and was so fast and explosive, even though he was out of position, he could recover and still get back in on the play, which most players really can't do, or they can't do it as well as he could. Peppers is a little bit in that category. He makes a lot of plays and then there's times when he is a little bit out of position, but he recovers very quickly.

Q: How does he influence what an offense does?
BB: Well, I think you have to account for him every play. You have to know where he is. He can ruin the game. Just like he did with the Giants. He ruined [Eli] Manning for about a month, too. He went in there, they had him double teamed, he blew past the tackle, strip sacked the ball and messed up Manning's elbow, scooped it up and ran in for a 60-yard touchdown. It doesn't get any worse than that. But, that is the kind of play he can make. And he was supposed to be doubled on the play, too. He's an impact player. You have to know where he is. You have to defend him. He beat us inside on a rush down there in the preseason game last year, I don't know, for about a 15, 17-yard sack, whatever it was. We don't have any quarterbacks that can run away from him. I can tell you that. If he's after us, he's going to get us. He's a lot faster than we are.

Very solid find right here.

 

[miDeuce]

Unless there is a cautious market for Peppers, what does Carolina hope to gain by the leak?

A better deal from a team who, at the very least, doesn't want to have the deal with a Peppers-Belichick Defense in 2009 and is willing to part with a low first rounder.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Since BB has gotten to Foxboro, the Pats front office has operated constantly in CIA mode, so it has to be the agent leaking this.

Unless there is a cautious market for Peppers, what does Carolina hope to gain by the leak?

Given the premise of this thread's discussion that BB may find it in his and the Patriots' best interest to generate misinformation, why would you think the agent would be cooperating with Belichick to be the one to leak the information?

Perhaps to help drive up his client's value?

Or are you saying that Belichick, since coming to Foxboro has never leaked information for his own benefit period - and that there's a constant media blackout in Foxboro?

I don't think that's quite true - the information leaked about his interest Dewayne Robertson a few years back seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

Thanks guys, I'm just praying this works out for us!

 

[JMarr]

"He ruined [Eli] Manning for about a month, too. He went in there, they had him double teamed, he blew past the tackle, strip sacked the ball and messed up Manning's elbow, scooped it up and ran in for a 60-yard touchdown. It doesn't get any worse than that."

:beatingcoming:

 

[Frezo]

First of all, I would never second guess the hoodie. This just doesn't seem like his MO at all. I can't recall a single time there's been a long public courtship for a player of Peppers magnitude.Of course whenever you think BB will zig, he zags so maybe this is all true. But if you're another NFL GM and you hear it's only gonna take a high second round pick wouldn't you go after him? Is Carolina gonna turn down a better draft pick for him?

Who knows. As much as I'd love to see Peppers on the Pats my gut is telling me that they're going after someone else or have other plans for replacing Vrabel.

Both Peppers and The Panthers are holding cards. Since Peppers hasn't signed the tag, the team has nothing to deal to other teams except the 17 mil for one year tag deal. Peppers is also going to have to want to play for that team so a new multi year contract can be structured. The reason the Cassel deal worked like this is because KC had a great deal of cap room. I don't think any of those three NFC teams have either the need or cap room to get any kind of a deal done. Carolina can't even listen to or entertain offers from other teams, (unless they are for the 1 year tag deal), that don't go through Pepper's agent and the agent ultimately works for Peppers.

If I was Peppers, I'd want to play behind three 1st round DLs, be opposite Thomas, be coached by Belichick and watch an unstoppable offense. I will guess that hammering the monetary side of this contract out and how it will be effected by next year while leaving no stinky fish around for Goodell to get a whiff of, is what's taking the extra time. IMO BB wants Peppers, Pep wants the Pats and Carolina is chomping at the bit to get it done ASAP. I have a feeling that there is a Flying Elvis in Pep's future.

 

[eom]

No way is this a ruse. Bill Belichick LOVES Julius Peppers. I went back to the Carolina game in 2005 to see what he thought of him, and this is what I found. If you don't want to read all of it, he basically thinks Peppers is the Randy Moss of Defense, and even makes comparisons between him and Lawrence Taylor. Now add 4 more years of experience.

9/14/2005
Q: They didn’t seem to move Peppers around much.
BB: I don’t think they need to move him. He causes plenty of problems where he is. He’s a hard guy to deal with. He’s hard to run at. He’s hard to throw at. That’s where most of the right-handed quarterbacks have to throw, into that left side. He’s a factor there one way or the other. Because the offense usually extends a little bit to try to take care of him, they like to bring to the linebackers and blitz them up inside, whether it’s [Will] Witherspoon or Morgan or [Brandon] Short, whoever it is. So, as the line widens, to take Peppers and give attention to Peppers, that opens up a lot of the inside pressures for them. So, they do a good job of that. He’s a good player. We talked about last week [Randy] Moss being kind of in a special category offensively for the Raiders. I think you have to put Peppers in that same, whatever category that is, defensively. You have to know where he is every play. If they move him, they move him. If they don’t, sometimes they drop him. Sometimes they stunt him. A lot of times when they move him, they move him after the snap. In other words, the ball is snapped and he’s stunts down inside or he’s on a gain or something like that. It’s not like he doesn’t move off of that spot. But, for the most part, he does align there. At times he reduces down. But for the most part, he is on that tackle.

Q: What about when he was at receiver? Didn’t they throw him a couple of jump balls in the corner of the end zone last year?
BB: Yes. Well, he has played tight end.

Q: What do you do there?
BB: It’s hard. He’s a hard guy to match up against. The guy could probably play… he certainly could play outside linebacker. We know he can play defensive end. I imagine he could probably move inside and play defensive tackle. There's no question he could play tight end. He probably could play offensive tackle. He's 290-something pounds. You're talking about a guy that could probably play six or seven positions on the field. That's pretty unusual.

9/15/2005
Q: How has Julius Peppers improved in since you last played him in the Super Bowl?
BB: Well, we played him last year in the preseason. So, we got a good look at him down there too. He played a lot in that game. I think he is essentially the same player, but he is more experienced, he reads some plays quicker, reacts quicker, and uses his hands. He used them well, but he's even improved on that. He's a hard guy to fool and even if you do get him out of position a little bit, he's such a great athlete, he has a lot of speed and power that he can recover very quickly. Again, it's different, but similar to coaching a player like Lawrence Taylor who, in all honesty, was out of position quite a bit, but he was such an exceptional athlete and was so fast and explosive, even though he was out of position, he could recover and still get back in on the play, which most players really can't do, or they can't do it as well as he could. Peppers is a little bit in that category. He makes a lot of plays and then there's times when he is a little bit out of position, but he recovers very quickly.

Q: How does he influence what an offense does?
BB: Well, I think you have to account for him every play. You have to know where he is. He can ruin the game. Just like he did with the Giants. He ruined [Eli] Manning for about a month, too. He went in there, they had him double teamed, he blew past the tackle, strip sacked the ball and messed up Manning's elbow, scooped it up and ran in for a 60-yard touchdown. It doesn't get any worse than that. But, that is the kind of play he can make. And he was supposed to be doubled on the play, too. He's an impact player. You have to know where he is. You have to defend him. He beat us inside on a rush down there in the preseason game last year, I don't know, for about a 15, 17-yard sack, whatever it was. We don't have any quarterbacks that can run away from him. I can tell you that. If he's after us, he's going to get us. He's a lot faster than we are.

I love this board.

of course, when the pats played oakland last season beli was talkin' them up like they were superbowl champions.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I love this board.

of course, when the pats played oakland last season beli was talkin' them up like they were superbowl champions.

He does that to every team. Remember HUMBLE PIE

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Perhaps this is wishful thinking on my part, but where there is smoke there is fire. As for the leak stuff, you can't say stuff doesn't ever get leaked about deal we do. It was absolute common knowledge that Cassel was likely going to KC long before the trade occured. That was discussed for weeks in some circles including here. The only surprize was the terms.

I beleive this rumor has legs because 1) Pep has made it clear where he wants to go (at least in the AFC), and 2) we know that Carolina wants to deal him in the worst way. It makes sense we are in the discussion.

We're all scratching our heads saying "can't be", but the bottom line. IF BB wants him here, Pep wants to play here, and Carolina want to deal him, then the deal will get done somehow, including the money part.

It may never happen, but I would not doupt that some fairly high level talks are occuring.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

He does that to every team. Remember HUMBLE PIE

I listen to almost all of Belichick's press conferences. You guys are absolutely right that he always hypes up the other team. However, it's totally different when he rambles on and on and on about one guy. There is an artform in disecting his press conferences. I'm not saying that I've mastered it or anything like that, but from listening to him for years I know that the praise he has for Peppers is legit. He doesn't go around comparing everyone to Randy Moss and L.T. either.

 

[Patjew]

Great find. Thanks for posting. You win best first post ever in my book.

I second that!

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I listen to almost all of Belichick's press conferences. You guys are absolutely right that he always hypes up the other team. However, it's totally different when he rambles on and on and on about one guy. There is an artform in disecting his press conferences. I'm not saying that I've mastered it or anything like that, but from listening to him for years I know that the praise he has for Peppers is legit. He doesn't go around comparing everyone to Randy Moss and L.T. either.

Well, we all know what happens when someone plays well against us,,,,,,,BB signs em

The only reason im not sure about Peppers is because im concerned about his coverage skills. BUT, in Bill we trust

 

[AzPatsFan]

No way is this a ruse. Bill Belichick LOVES Julius Peppers. I went back to the Carolina game in 2005 to see what he thought of him, and this is what I found. If you don't want to read all of it, he basically thinks Peppers is the Randy Moss of Defense, and even makes comparisons between him and Lawrence Taylor. Now add 4 more years of experience.

9/14/2005
Q: They didn’t seem to move Peppers around much.
BB: I don’t think they need to move him. He causes plenty of problems where he is. He’s a hard guy to deal with. He’s hard to run at. He’s hard to throw at. That’s where most of the right-handed quarterbacks have to throw, into that left side. He’s a factor there one way or the other. Because the offense usually extends a little bit to try to take care of him, they like to bring to the linebackers and blitz them up inside, whether it’s [Will] Witherspoon or Morgan or [Brandon] Short, whoever it is. So, as the line widens, to take Peppers and give attention to Peppers, that opens up a lot of the inside pressures for them. So, they do a good job of that. He’s a good player. We talked about last week [Randy] Moss being kind of in a special category offensively for the Raiders. I think you have to put Peppers in that same, whatever category that is, defensively. You have to know where he is every play. If they move him, they move him. If they don’t, sometimes they drop him. Sometimes they stunt him. A lot of times when they move him, they move him after the snap. In other words, the ball is snapped and he’s stunts down inside or he’s on a gain or something like that. It’s not like he doesn’t move off of that spot. But, for the most part, he does align there. At times he reduces down. But for the most part, he is on that tackle.

Q: What about when he was at receiver? Didn’t they throw him a couple of jump balls in the corner of the end zone last year?
BB: Yes. Well, he has played tight end.

Q: What do you do there?
BB: It’s hard. He’s a hard guy to match up against. The guy could probably play… he certainly could play outside linebacker. We know he can play defensive end. I imagine he could probably move inside and play defensive tackle. There's no question he could play tight end. He probably could play offensive tackle. He's 290-something pounds. You're talking about a guy that could probably play six or seven positions on the field. That's pretty unusual.

9/15/2005
Q: How has Julius Peppers improved in since you last played him in the Super Bowl?
BB: Well, we played him last year in the preseason. So, we got a good look at him down there too. He played a lot in that game. I think he is essentially the same player, but he is more experienced, he reads some plays quicker, reacts quicker, and uses his hands. He used them well, but he's even improved on that. He's a hard guy to fool and even if you do get him out of position a little bit, he's such a great athlete, he has a lot of speed and power that he can recover very quickly. Again, it's different, but similar to coaching a player like Lawrence Taylor who, in all honesty, was out of position quite a bit, but he was such an exceptional athlete and was so fast and explosive, even though he was out of position, he could recover and still get back in on the play, which most players really can't do, or they can't do it as well as he could. Peppers is a little bit in that category. He makes a lot of plays and then there's times when he is a little bit out of position, but he recovers very quickly.

Q: How does he influence what an offense does?
BB: Well, I think you have to account for him every play. You have to know where he is. He can ruin the game. Just like he did with the Giants. He ruined [Eli] Manning for about a month, too. He went in there, they had him double teamed, he blew past the tackle, strip sacked the ball and messed up Manning's elbow, scooped it up and ran in for a 60-yard touchdown. It doesn't get any worse than that. But, that is the kind of play he can make. And he was supposed to be doubled on the play, too. He's an impact player. You have to know where he is. You have to defend him. He beat us inside on a rush down there in the preseason game last year, I don't know, for about a 15, 17-yard sack, whatever it was. We don't have any quarterbacks that can run away from him. I can tell you that. If he's after us, he's going to get us. He's a lot faster than we are.

I was dubious about Peppers from financial standpoint but aldo because I wasn't sure he could transition to the Patriots Defense.

In Belichick I Trust. The Master has spoken. If he says Peppers can play OLB; and furthermore that he will modify his Defense to insure he can play, than I have no football questions or qualms any longer. Now its only a money issue.
:yeahthat::agree:
Great Post and Great Find! :youtheman:

 

[aaron spacemuseum]

I've been trying to formulate this theory all day myself, except my version doesn't end with us forcing someone to overpay on peppers as that would have no benefit for us. My take relates to an article I read about Parcells being ecstatic over a particular OLB prospect and my guess is that BB has his eyes set on the same guy. I think it's Barwin but it could be Sintim, Matthews or the dark horse, Michael Johnson. I've omitted Clay Matthews as Parcells loves to grab biiiiiiig OLBs (see "the planet theory") and at 240, Matthews doesn't make the cut.

So here's the theory. BB knows that Parcells is prepared to leapfrog him at 23 to nab the OLB they both covet. But how high? Miami has two 2nd round picks and depending on which one they deal, they could move up to the teens to make this move. Without knowing how far Parcells is willing to go it becomes a game of chicken and neither one wants to give up more. So how does BB keep Parcells from starting this game in the first place? By creating a diversion that OLB is no long a need for the Pats and that Miami can grab the player successfully at 25 without moving.

To pull this off, I expect that the Peppers talks will heat up but for some reason never get finalized (the ultimate cover is Pepper's exorbitant salary -- BB can use the cover of being tied up in negotiations with the agent til after the draft). Next the Pats will start working out a misdirection type player like Alphonso Smith or Sean Smith or Louis Delmas (Delmas could be ideal since BB might be targeting his buddy Saban's old Safety, Johnson in the 2nd).

As the draft nears, Parcells stays pat at 25, convinced that BB is taking Delmas at 23 when all of a sudden..."With the 23rd pick, the New England Patriots select...." Parcells is furious. He gets scooped by his old DC for the stud 3-4 OLB. Carolina is left high and dry with Peppers and will end up having to unload him for a mid 2 or lower to avoid dumping his exorbitant contract. The Pats keep all of their day one picks (or trade one or two to double up in the second round of the 2010 draft).

Yeah, after re-reading this, I guess it's pretty far-fetched. But I wouldn't put any of it past the dark genius!

 

[mmasterkillah]

Belichick has only talked about Ed Reed in similar fashion, as far as I recall. While Bill doesn't always expand on his thoughts, he usually expresses his true beliefs.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Belichick has only talked about Ed Reed in similar fashion, as far as I recall. While Bill doesn't always expand on his thoughts, he usually expresses his true beliefs.

BB has some serious man love for Reed. Too bad by the time we could get him, he'll be 40