23 PTP Board/Draft thoughts

[One-If-By-Sea]

You know, i just read that Milano is 221lbs.

Milano is the real deal - I wanted the Pats to steal him before he re-signed with Buffalo. I'm shocked he's that light!

Agreed. Hopefully Mapu is about 230lbs by Y2.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Maybe we're seeing the way the Pats look at prospects change? The fact you hit so many of Houston shows the methodology was correct based on history.

That’s what i’m thinking. Kraft made a big deal about how they were revamping their scouting process prior to the 2021 draft. Groh’s been the personnel guy behind Belichick since 2021. Caserio may be using the team’s old process.

I've been thinking about this since the draft, obviously. Not sure how to tweak it tbh. Maybe I'd have to look some testing #'s or height & weight or we.

On one hand I feel like I was pretty close to having 4-5 but on the other definitely think I need to tweak it a bit.

One interesting note I've made is might rely on the athletic board a little too much.

Basically I take a name from that board and adjust its value where I see fit. Like some guys that come out 1,2 & 3 on the athletic boatd won't get looked at top 75. And vice versa like Mafi was the second last IOL on that board.

Idk I'll come up with something.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I was pounding the table for Washington, too, but really, his production in college was kind of meh and the bigger issue are the knees. I have a bum knee - tore it apart in 1976. Never been the same.

I wish they ha found a good blocking TE, though, him or someone else.

They did find a good blocking TE with a lot of upside. Introducing UDFA Johnny Lumpkin. Darnell Washington is 6'7" and 264 lbs. Lumpkin is 6'5" and 264 lbs. Washington ran a 4.64 sec 40 and Lumpkin ran a (wait for it) 4.64 sec 40. Washington had a 31 inch vertical and Lumpkin had a (wait for it) 33 inch vertical. So why is Lumpkin a UDFA? He had 17 Div. 1 scholarship offers and ended up going to a community college, so he had some academic issues - clearly not a Rhodes scholar. But the guy is huge, can run, is explosive, and very long, so he hopefully will be a blocking TE for years to come. Want some more positive TE news? Lumpkin was at the Shrine Bowl, coached by the Pats staff, and was one of three UDFAs targeted by the staff.

Lumpkin had a eye-popping Pro Day workout, highlighted by a 4.64 40-yard dash and 33-inch vertical while measuring in at 6-5, 264 pounds, but it wasn't quite enough to get his name called. He finished his UL career with 36 catches for 408 yards and six touchdowns.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

clearly not a Rhodes scholar.

Belichick has said TE is the second-hardest position to play in our system after QB. Maybe the blocking TE's job is simpler than the move TE, but I suspect there is still complexity.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Belichick has said TE is the second-hardest position to play in our system after QB. Maybe the blocking TE's job is simpler than the move TE, but I suspect there is still complexity.

Agreed. So he will start slowly with blocking like in college and work his way up.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

They did find a good blocking TE with a lot of upside. Introducing UDFA Johnny Lumpkin. Darnell Washington is 6'7" and 264 lbs. Lumpkin is 6'5" and 264 lbs. Washington ran a 4.64 sec 40 and Lumpkin ran a (wait for it) 4.64 sec 40. Washington had a 31 inch vertical and Lumpkin had a (wait for it) 33 inch vertical. So why is Lumpkin a UDFA? He had 17 Div. 1 scholarship offers and ended up going to a community college, so he had some academic issues - clearly not a Rhodes scholar. But the guy is huge, can run, is explosive, and very long, so he hopefully will be a blocking TE for years to come. Want some more positive TE news? Lumpkin was at the Shrine Bowl, coached by the Pats staff, and was one of three UDFAs targeted by the staff.

Lumpkin had a eye-popping Pro Day workout, highlighted by a 4.64 40-yard dash and 33-inch vertical while measuring in at 6-5, 264 pounds, but it wasn't quite enough to get his name called. He finished his UL career with 36 catches for 408 yards and six touchdowns

Poor bench and agility according to this (which has a slower 40 and smaller vertical):

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Poor bench and agility according to this (which has a slower 40 and smaller vertical):

Those are not Lumpkin's Pro Day numbers - I posted his Pro Day above. Having said that, I do not know for sure. Lumpkin was at the Shrine Bowl, and following that, the Patriots targeted him, so I am guessing he is limited but a good blocker. Why else would they jump on him as one of three UDFAs? Because he is limited so they knew he would be around.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Poor bench and agility according to this (which has a slower 40 and smaller vertical

PS. Poor bench is not that uncommon with tall guys that have extra long arms. The arm length more than makes up for the poor bench. And his bench will improve, arms don't grow longer.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Absolutely fantastic take.. till 5th round it was a C for me, because of mapu and drafting of 3 guards who are not even needed considering we have Strange and Onwenu.

We wanted TE, OT and WR . We didn't get any till 6th round . So with Boutte and Douglas there seems to be some hope and light in the end of tunnel. We are hoping, for once lady luck shines on us and we find our Antonio brown ( on field player only not the persona) in Boutte or Douglas.

Besides we need our welker/Edelman clone and possibly Bourne is not that . So anybody in slot who has been drafted in 6tg round or below becomes the fan favorite , we get our hopes high using that history .

Yes Boutte and Douglas pushed my draft grades from C to B / B-

If, God forbid, Strange or Onwenu suffer a major injury early in the season, tell me who steps in for them and gives them starting- caliber guard play. Based on your comment above, you’re not allowed to pick any of the three (not needed) draftees.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Belichick has said TE is the second-hardest position to play in our system after QB. Maybe the blocking TE's job is simpler than the move TE, but I suspect there is still complexity.

Always told my friends.
Don’t buy into the dumb act Gronk always displayed.
He never had a problem with the system
Dumb like a fox

 

[Toofy]

If, God forbid, Strange or Onwenu suffer a major injury early in the season, tell me who steps in for them and gives them starting- caliber guard play. Based on your comment above, you’re not allowed to pick any of the three (not needed) draftees.

I think the gripe was not with 3 IOL but with 0 OT. Jake Andrews seemed rich when we had Hines. And I viosuly with dawaaand Jones falling so much, the hope was he could be drafted. Sidy Sow was a good pick. Andrews , mafi and mapu we're not picks that you get excited about . So that's what it meant as a fan. But to your point, these picks could potentially pan out really well if Andrews becomes the back up center and sow becomes an OT.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

Notice where KC is. Bills are going to be more dangerous if this kids back is OK.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

Good story if you want to read.

The McGinn Files: ‘He’s going to have to step up a level, and I think he will.’ The talk about Jerry Rice before the ’85 draft

Like so many of the all-time greats, Rice outworked most of his opponents.

theathletic.com

 

[DaBruinz]

Absolutely fantastic take.. till 5th round it was a C for me, because of mapu and drafting of 3 guards who are not even needed considering we have strange and Onwenu.

It wasn't 3 guards. It was 1 OG (Mafi), 1 OC/OG (Andrews), and 1 OG/OT (Sow). Claiming that they weren't needed is ignorance at it's finest. YTou talk about Onwenu, but ignore the fact that he's a UFA at the end of the year. You also have no idea if the Pats have tried to re-sign him already and whether or not Onwenu rebuffed them.

The Only Reserve IOL the Patriots had prior to the draft were Ferentz, Russey, Murray and Hines. Thinking that they couldn't be upgraded speaks volumes about your inability to evaluate the talent on the team. Andrews allows the team to part ways with Ferentz, who is 34. Sow or Mafi would allow the team to part ways with Murray, who is undersized. The 3 will also push Russey and Hines to improve or be cut.

We wanted TE, OT and WR . We didn't get any till 6th round . So with Boutte and Douglas there seems to be some hope and light in the end of tunnel. We are hoping, for once lady luck shines on us and we find our Antonio brown ( on field player only not the persona) in Boutte or Douglas.

Besides we need our welker/Edelman clone and possibly Bourne is not that . So anybody in slot who has been drafted in 6tg round or below becomes the fan favorite , we get our hopes high using that history .

Yes Boutte and Douglas pushed my draft grades from C to B / B-

Your "grades" don't mean a thing especially when you're working from a such an uninformed position. No one cares what you wanted. It doesn't matter one iota. Not to mention that throwing out grades when the players haven't played a down is just ridiculous. What matters is where the team saw players in relation to what they already had. People like yourself always complain as if you've got some MASTER INSIGHT into the future.

We don't need an Antonio Brown on the field. We need players who get open and make catches without fumbling. Boutte and Douglas are low risk / high reward players. Douglas is closer to being an "Edelman clone", just faster. Personally, I'd settle for a Troy Brown clone. And Douglas looks to be a faster version of Troy Brown.

If Boutte's ankle is finally 100% and he has confidence in it and he can learn the play-book, he could be a deadlier version of David Givens with a ceiling of Deandre Hopkins or Jordy Nelson.

 

[DaBruinz]

Poor bench and agility according to this (which has a slower 40 and smaller vertical):

This was talked about. Lumpkin didn't have the resources to hire a specialized trainer to help him with his techniques and to train for the Combine. Contrary to what some people believe, those techniques help players shave tenths of a second on their times and help make them better players in the long run.

@Jim Beankie has done an excellent job pointing out how many of the star WRs are now running track as well. Not because they don't love football, but because it actually helps them improve their game. People should really take a look at the stuff he's posted in the draft threads because it's extremely helpful. Just as helpful as all the information that @BaconGrundleCandy posts..

Not looking at the over-all RAS, Here is the comparison of Lumpkin to Gronk. Lumpkin isn't as strong, but has 1in longer arms. Lumpkin is .1 sec slower in the 40, but only 0.03 and 0.06 in the 10 and 20 split. Lumpin actually had a slightly better broad jump and was only 0.06 slower than Gronk in the Shuttle.

Now, I am NOT saying that Lumpkin is going to be Gronk. I'm just pointing out that Lumpkin's numbers aren't nearly as bad as people would like to claim. Especially since he had no specialized training. And yes, part of Gronk's back rehab was Combine training to improve his numbers.

It will be interesting to watch Lumpkin develop behind Henry and Gesicki and compete against Sokol and Washington.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s what i’m thinking. Kraft made a big deal about how they were revamping their scouting process prior to the 2021 draft. Groh’s been the personnel guy behind Belichick since 2021. Caserio may be using the team’s old process.

Not sure I agree Kraft “made a big deal” about drafting, I think he commented loosely on it once and everyone here has made a big deal about the one time comments.

 

[Toofy]

It wasn't 3 guards. It was 1 OG (Mafi), 1 OC/OG (Andrews), and 1 OG/OT (Sow). Claiming that they weren't needed is ignorance at it's finest. YTou talk about Onwenu, but ignore the fact that he's a UFA at the end of the year. You also have no idea if the Pats have tried to re-sign him already and whether or not Onwenu rebuffed them.

The Only Reserve IOL the Patriots had prior to the draft were Ferentz, Russey, Murray and Hines. Thinking that they couldn't be upgraded speaks volumes about your inability to evaluate the talent on the team. Andrews allows the team to part ways with Ferentz, who is 34. Sow or Mafi would allow the team to part ways with Murray, who is undersized. The 3 will also push Russey and Hines to improve or be cut.


Your "grades" don't mean a thing especially when you're working from a such an uninformed position. No one cares what you wanted. It doesn't matter one iota. Not to mention that throwing out grades when the players haven't played a down is just ridiculous. What matters is where the team saw players in relation to what they already had. People like yourself always complain as if you've got some MASTER INSIGHT into the future.

We don't need an Antonio Brown on the field. We need players who get open and make catches without fumbling. Boutte and Douglas are low risk / high reward players. Douglas is closer to being an "Edelman clone", just faster. Personally, I'd settle for a Troy Brown clone. And Douglas looks to be a faster version of Troy Brown.

If Boutte's ankle is finally 100% and he has confidence in it and he can learn the play-book, he could be a deadlier version of David Givens with a ceiling of Deandre Hopkins or Jordy Nelson.

I am fine with your take, but when you say no one cares about what I feel and you type a long riposte, keeps me wondering...

Anyways I am not professing that my value means a lot or is accurate just state what I felt . I could be right, I could be 2tong. This is a free country I presume . Am I supposed to look for acceptance even for views which have zero bearing on what pats do.

And please educate me what are you supposed to do in forums, Be subservient to people like you who feel they know it all and not have a divergent view.

I like your takes and feel they are relevant . Hope you can tone down on your aggressive riposte. Does no one favors . In the end we are all pats fans.

 

[Mark Morse]

Please list the last LB to make the 53
1) as an OLB weighing in at 217
2) an ILB weighing in at 217

Yes, Belichick plays chess, but Mapu looks like a potential starter that would start at SS.

Do you all really think that he is a potential future starter at ILB or OLB?

The fact that the Patriots draft so few LBs makes me think he will be a future starter. The videos I saw were from the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl all-star game and the Senior Bowl practices. Mapu is a downhill tackler and hits hard. He was injured at the Senior Bowl practices and couldn't play in the game. He plays much bigger than his 217 lb weight. Check out this article by Phil Perry on Reel Analytics in lieu of testing numbers for Mapu. These unique analytics suggest Patriots' Marte Mapu has serious potential
They believe that Mapu has the frame to gain weight. 6'3" 220 is the new NFL linebacker. Mapu was excellent in covering the TE in the video I saw.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This was talked about. Lumpkin didn't have the resources to hire a specialized trainer to help him with his techniques and to train for the Combine. Contrary to what some people believe, those techniques help players shave tenths of a second on their times and help make them better players in the long run.

@Jim Beankie has done an excellent job pointing out how many of the star WRs are now running track as well. Not because they don't love football, but because it actually helps them improve their game. People should really take a look at the stuff he's posted in the draft threads because it's extremely helpful. Just as helpful as all the information that @BaconGrundleCandy posts..

It's all athletes nowadays. Now just WR or football kids. All sports.

It's great for the real young kids who can't lift super heavy bc it builds muscle, burn calories etc and helps recruit those fast twitch fibers that are needed. Specifically the muscles you're using. Glutes, hamstrings, core etc

It's really good for competition and confidence. You'll have these kids that are used to dominating a specific sports find themselves out of their space against better or different athletes. That's important bc it'll show who's really there to compete or who's there to worry about coming in 4th instead of 1st.

One of the biggest things it helps with is the obvious. Muscle memory. So many kids don't know how to run properly or use the right muscles. So much so they have to spend 8 weeks at some camp to help improve their 40. You can tell the guys who run track. They're much more powerful but efficient with their movements.

Another thing that's really helpful is balance. Your balance improves so much running track. Just doing things while your at that speed is a positive. Whether it's thinking, changing direction etc. Big help with balance.

Everyone is running or training for speed today. Hockey to football.