Giants trying to trade up for Maye

Ross12 said:

If they can get absolutely ridiculous compensation (like pick 47 this year plus the Giants' 1st in 2025 and 2026) to go down to 6, then that makes it easy to turn around and send one of those extra 1sts (probably one in 2025) to Arizona to go from 6 to 4 and take JJ. Arizona would gladly take another extra 1st next year to only go down 2 places and still be able to get MHJ, Odunze or Nabers, and the Pats would still have an extra 2nd this year and an extra first in 2026. Arizona would not be able to get an extra 1st and also the ability to take a premier WR from any other team looking to trade up for JJ - even if the Vikings offered Arizona three firsts, Arizona would miss out on their WR.

With two 2nd rounders (34 and 47) this year, they'd be able to get both starting caliber WR and tackle prospects. Let's say Legette/Coleman/McConkey at 34 and Paul/Suamataia at 47.

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I’d need a player thrown in here as well to pass on Maye and having no guarantee im getting jj.

mike_usagisan said:

I know another Allen would be great and all... but the Bills still haven't won anything other than the division.

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Not wrong, but there's a litany of reasons they haven't gotten over the hump, and I'm not sure where "Josh Allen isn't quite good enough" falls on that ranking:

- They've had trouble developing WR talent. Diggs is the only consistent weapon they've found and he was a trade.
- They've NEVER had a good running game outside of Allen himself, and that's with several RB's rotating in and out.
- They've always had to go through Mahomes
- Josh Allen chokes/tries to do too much in big moments

Now, admittedly, all of these aside from the running game are also big question marks on the Patriots. But we have to operate under the assumption that the new regime will be better at those things, otherwise it's not going to matter who we have at QB anyway.

Also (and it probably goes without saying), though his closest comp is Josh Allen, he is NOT Josh Allen, for better or for worse. He's his own player and he'll have his own path to carve.

If we don’t leave this draft with Maye, Mccarrhy or 2 quality wrs and A Nix, Pennix or Rattler it be a huge L for me.

RobertWeathers said:

Josh Allen 2018 Scouting Report

Strengths:

• Great skill set
• Ideal size for a NFL quarterback
• Very strong arm
• Good athlete
• Excellent mobility
• Running threat
• Keeps his eyes downfield as he scrambles
• Hard to sack
• Amazing strength to break tackles in the pocket
• Can stretch the field vertically with his arm strength
• Throws a good spiral
• Has a quick release
• Throws well on the run
• Can throws receivers open
• Has worked under center some

Weaknesses:

• Has accuracy issues
• Ball security
• Decision-making needs to improve
• Throws too many interceptions
• Needs to improve ability to throw finesse throws
• Struggled against better teams
• Played at a low level of competition
• Concerns about production and ability to be a clutch performer

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Looks like Joe Milton (except Joe was better besides throws WRs open), and Allen threw twice as many INTs in college in almost the same exact number of attempts.

Edit: In his final college year, JAllen against Oregon (Herbert) was 9/24 (37.5%) 64yds 1INT.

Sicilian said:

Also (and it probably goes without saying), though his closest comp is Josh Allen, he is NOT Josh Allen, for better or for worse. He's his own player and he'll have his own path to carve.

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Agreed. I'm fine if the Pats draft Maye, but I was thinking how much I prefer a Burrows-style QB rather than a gunslinger like Allen.

RobertWeathers said:

Josh Allen 2018 Scouting Report

Strengths:

• Great skill set
• Ideal size for a NFL quarterback
• Very strong arm
• Good athlete
• Excellent mobility
• Running threat
• Keeps his eyes downfield as he scrambles
• Hard to sack
• Amazing strength to break tackles in the pocket
• Can stretch the field vertically with his arm strength
• Throws a good spiral
• Has a quick release
• Throws well on the run
• Can throws receivers open
• Has worked under center some

Weaknesses:

• Has accuracy issues
• Ball security
• Decision-making needs to improve
• Throws too many interceptions
• Needs to improve ability to throw finesse throws
• Struggled against better teams
• Played at a low level of competition
• Concerns about production and ability to be a clutch performer

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If the upside is Josh Allen, I’m taking the risk of a bust for that.

JohnJH said:

That massive victory in Denver (sarcasm implied), may make this a moot point, as Washington might draft him. Besides, if he is there at #3 there's no way I don't draft him, as the upside is too high to pass up on.

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Turns out the win in Denver did not make a difference because they were gifted 2 losses by Giants and Skins
It all evens out.
They should have had 2 more wins and still would be picking 3rd

Sam Bam Cunningham said:

Turns out the win in Denver did not make a difference because they were gifted 2 losses by Giants and Skins
It all evens out.
They should have had 2 more wins and still would be picking 3rd

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And they should have lost to The Steelers as well.

Bourne Again Christian said:

That is true rumors before were Peter’s was a Maye guy.
I wouldn’t draft Daniels at 3.

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Thank you! I guess I'm not alone in the "I don't want Daniels Club".

Sam Bam Cunningham said:

would do 3 for 6 and 2 second round picks
Then trade 6 and a 3rd for 5 and take mccarthy at 5

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I think the Vikings would give up way more than this to move to 5. Plus Harbaugh would probably rather he end up on the Vikings

EMpats said:

I think the Vikings would give up way more than this to move to 5. Plus Harbaugh would probably rather he end up on the Vikings

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Agree we can’t count on that.

Well, I would trade #3 for at a minimum: 3 firsts......

So, my starting price offer would be:

Pats #3 for the G-Men's #6, G-Men's 2nd rounder, G-Men's 2025 1st, and G-Men's 2025 3rd.

Sicilian said:

Not wrong, but there's a litany of reasons they haven't gotten over the hump, and I'm not sure where "Josh Allen isn't quite good enough" falls on that ranking:

- They've had trouble developing WR talent. Diggs is the only consistent weapon they've found and he was a trade.
- They've NEVER had a good running game outside of Allen himself, and that's with several RB's rotating in and out.
- They've always had to go through Mahomes
- Josh Allen chokes/tries to do too much in big moments

Now, admittedly, all of these aside from the running game are also big question marks on the Patriots. But we have to operate under the assumption that the new regime will be better at those things, otherwise it's not going to matter who we have at QB anyway.

Also (and it probably goes without saying), though his closest comp is Josh Allen, he is NOT Josh Allen, for better or for worse. He's his own player and he'll have his own path to carve.

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The physical comp to Allen is pretty interesting too, when comparing their measurements at their respective combines:

Josh Allen height: 6 feet 4.9 inches
Drake Maye height: 6 feet 4.4 inches

Josh Allen weight: 237 pounds
Drake Maye weight: 223 pounds

Josh Allen arm length: 33.3 inches
Drake Maye arm length: 33.3 inches

Josh Allen hand size: 10.1 inches
Drake Maye hand size: 9.1 inches

Josh Allen 40 yard dash: 4.75 seconds
Drake Maye 40 yard dash: 4.60 seconds

Josh Allen age when drafted: 21
Drake Maye age when drafted: 21

Very similar though Maye is 14 pounds lighter and has smaller hands, borderline too small but not quite. Otherwise they are extremely close.

I think the various spokespeople for the Pats have been clear and honest for some time, and that all the discussion about "what they meant" has been a waste of time. They are fairly content (not more than that, however) with the various qb options likely to fall to them, but not so thrilled with any that they would not move off the third pick if a VERY generous offer were made for it. If the team were fundamentally sound, but lacking a qb, they would likely be more firm in committing to drafting one, but that is not the case. They have many other needs. The likelihood is that no team will offer enough for the Pats to trade down, but they are open to doing so if the offer is very generous. That is what they have said, it is what they have meant, and it is still as clearly the case as it has been all along.

Interesting today, using mock sims, I could not get Maye at #3 on multiple sites. Not saying there's anything to it, just hmmmmm.

RobertWeathers said:

Josh Allen 2018 Scouting Report

Strengths:

• Great skill set
• Ideal size for a NFL quarterback
• Very strong arm
• Good athlete
• Excellent mobility
• Running threat
• Keeps his eyes downfield as he scrambles
• Hard to sack
• Amazing strength to break tackles in the pocket
• Can stretch the field vertically with his arm strength
• Throws a good spiral
• Has a quick release
• Throws well on the run
• Can throws receivers open
• Has worked under center some

Weaknesses:

• Has accuracy issues
• Ball security
• Decision-making needs to improve
• Throws too many interceptions
• Needs to improve ability to throw finesse throws
• Struggled against better teams
• Played at a low level of competition
• Concerns about production and ability to be a clutch performer

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Why in the world would I want this as my QB? I know people are now in love with athletic QBs but having watched Brady for 20 years, we should all know very well that what makes a QB special is decision making, accuracy and outperformance in big moments. Basically all the things this guy seems to be bad at.

Mayebe yes and Myebe no

ahmed said:

Why in the world would I want this as my QB? I know people are now in love with athletic QBs but having watched Brady for 20 years, we should all know very well that what makes a QB special is decision making, accuracy and outperformance in big moments. Basically all the things this guy seems to be bad at.

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That's where I am, too.

Jonathan Kraft working the phones.

mike_usagisan said:

That's where I am, too.

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Sounds like Mccarhy or Nix.