Reactions to “The Dynasty”

upstater1 · Feb 23, 2024

How in the world does Holley get up there and say those things about hubris? Is Holley so ignorant of the facts that he doesn't know the 2006 incident with the Jets?

I mean, we have one Boston idiot after another speaking non-sense.

MacMullan, she's clueless and unaware. Now Holley refuses to even acknowledge the very thing that would show the NFL in a hypocritical light.

This is how powerful the NFL is. The news reporters covering the league REFUSE to acknowledge the basic facts of the situation if it would make the NFL (and Kraft) look bad. I look at Holley as a totally failed reporter after his idiocy in the show.

borisman · Feb 23, 2024

Boomer B said:
Surprised Mike Martz agreed to be in this. Great seeing how salty he still is over the loss.

He wouldn’t miss ANY opportunity to make it seem like Bill/Pats cheated him out of HIS dynasty

cmasspatsfan · Feb 23, 2024

upstater1 said:
How in the world does Holley get up there and say those things about hubris? Is Holley so ignorant of the facts that he doesn't know the 2006 incident with the Jets?

I mean, we have one Boston idiot after another speaking non-sense.

MacMullan, she's clueless and unaware. Now Holley refuses to even acknowledge the very thing that would show the NFL in a hypocritical light.

This is how powerful the NFL is. The news reporters covering the league REFUSE to acknowledge the basic facts of the situation if it would make the NFL (and Kraft) look bad. I look at Holley as a totally failed reporter after his idiocy in the show.

I haven't seen it (dont have apple tv) what did he say or not say and about what?

upstater1 · Feb 23, 2024

cmasspatsfan said:
I haven't seen it (dont have apple tv) what did he say or not say and about what?

On Spygate, he said it was Belichick's hubris and arrogance that did him in, that he didn't have to follow the rules!

They even went into the relationship with Mangini and the Jets, but there was no mention about the fact that the Jets were videotaping the Patriots the previous year and were not reprimanded by the NFL. This is the most important context for what happened.

BennyBledsoe · Feb 23, 2024

Let's not pretend that players can't catch fire for a season and then flame out. Trading Bledsoe was taking a gamble on Brady for the long term. It worked out, obviously, but it was still a gamble.

Ian · Feb 23, 2024

Boomer B said:
Surprised Mike Martz agreed to be in this. Great seeing how salty he still is over the loss.

Listening to him talk about that one was crazy. I said to my wife, "He does know they ended up losing that game, right...?"

Jim Beankie · Feb 23, 2024

I'd like to know when a lot of these interviews took place. Must've been 2022-2023, I'm guessing. TB12's haircut looks 2022esque, but that's from a very quick web search.

Edit: I wonder how much the events of the last 2 years have affected the editing of the show. Reminds me of the greatest sports fan moment of my life with tears in my eyes and thinking... What the F are Fallon and Barrymore doing there?

ahmed · Feb 23, 2024

BennyBledsoe said:
Let's not pretend that players can't catch fire for a season and then flame out. Trading Bledsoe was taking a gamble on Brady for the long term. It worked out, obviously, but it was still a gamble.

Tell me of 1 QB in NFL history who won a SB in first year starting and then sucked?

A QB winning a lot from day 1 is probably the number 1 indicator of future QB success if you look at NFL history.

signbabybrady · Feb 23, 2024

ahmed said:
Tell me of 1 QB in NFL history who won a SB in first year starting and then sucked?

A QB winning a lot from day 1 is probably the number 1 indicator of future QB success if you look at NFL history.

Just some random info. If you look back through history most teams that win a SB at least make it back to another one. Rodgers and Brees somehow only made one but most others at least returned. Going to and losing your first SB on the other hand can be very tough thing to overcome and only a few have managed to make it back. There are a couple of QBs in these spots currently. Stafford might join Brees and Rodgers in the one club. Purdy, Goff, Jimmy, Burrow got to buck the losers club.

Jim Beankie · Feb 23, 2024

ahmed said:
Tell me of 1 QB in NFL history who won a SB in first year starting and then sucked?

A QB winning a lot from day 1 is probably the number 1 indicator of future QB success if you look at NFL history.

Oh wow. I think that list is just KWarner (undrafted) and TB12 (6th Rnd) for 1st year starters who've won a SB. Shooting starts at around the same time.

That being said, they both sucked as NFL QBs last season. Couldn't even start... or play.

BennyBledsoe · Feb 23, 2024

Of 58 starting QBs that have won a Super Bowl, only TWO were in their first year starting. Tom and Warner. That's it. Hardly a predictor.

And tons of success in their first year? Would you really like that list? I mean, we have Tebow on there. And plenty of other forgettables. It's not a strong case, man. I think the Sanchize, too? I mean.... I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.... you probably should rethink your premise.

ahmed · Feb 23, 2024

Jim Beankie said:
Oh wow. I think that list is just KWarner (undrafted) and TB12 (6th Rnd) for 1st year starters who've won a SB. Shooting starts at around the same time.

That being said, they both sucked as NFL QBs last season. Couldn't even start... or play.

Let's take it further. QBs who won a lot from day 1. Just off the top of my head: Wilson, Roethlisberger, Mahomes. It is a very reliable indicator of future success.

Even the ones who did not go on to be great were very good like Dak and Romo.

ahmed · Feb 23, 2024

BennyBledsoe said:
Of 58 starting QBs that have won a Super Bowl, only TWO were in their first year starting. Tom and Warner. That's it. Hardly a predictor.

And tons of success in their first year? Would you really like that list? I mean, we have Tebow on there. And plenty of other forgettables. It's not a strong case, man. I think the Sanchize, too? I mean.... I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.... you probably should rethink your premise.

Nope. Tebow was not a success lol. Sanchez is a good shout but he is an exception.

Wilson, Roethlisberger, Mahomes, Marino, Luck.

BennyBledsoe · Feb 23, 2024

He was 7-4 his first full year as a starter and got them to the playoffs. That wasn't a success? Man, you are cherry picking here. There's a reason people are wary of sudden success. There's a reason there's a term for it (flash in the pan).

signbabybrady · Feb 23, 2024

ahmed said:
Let's take it further. QBs who won a lot from day 1. Just off the top of my head: Wilson, Roethlisberger, Mahomes. It is a very reliable indicator of future success.

Even the ones who did not go on to be great were very good like Dak and Romo.

Mac won a lot year 1

venecol · Feb 23, 2024

Jim Beankie said:
Just finished 3 and 4. Just found out an old friend was very very involved in the making of this - As in the name pops up within the 1st 30 seconds of the credits, so I'm now officially biased - take my comments with a grain of salt. So far I think this has been very well done, saying this as someone whose Super Bowl DVDs have been worn out from all the playtime.

That being said, when this was called The Dynasty, my immediate thought was Linda Evans and Joanne Collins, and watching the drama / soap opera with my Mom back in the 80s, so I wasn't expecting a documentary on the winning, I was expecting Dominique punching Alexis, and drama and backstabbing and such. Random notes and maybe spoilers:

-Kraft after the Parcells debacle: "I promised myself in the future, I would find a coach that truly put the team first."

-The use of Verdi's Dies Irae (which I've sung a few times as part of a choir) was an excellent and appropriate choice.

-Bledsoe's got a great radio voice.

-U2's Edge talking about Brady vs Bledsoe was hilarious.

-Bruschi on Drew's support despite the situation: "That's where I think the Patriot Way started."

-Mike Martz, Strahan (disses both TB12 and Eli), and Parcells - Nice cameos.

- I was worried by earlier posts about all the focus on Spygate and the 2007 season, but as painful as it was to watch, it seemed like it was very necessary (since a vast majority of people watching this won't be Patriots fans) and will probably set up future strife.

- Forgot that the "Pats filmed the Rams walkthrough" happened in the beginning of that notorious SB.

I found Pioli's comments interesting at the end of Ep3. He says so much with few words.

Winning is like a narcotic. The winning became addicting and we were enabling one another. "As time goes by, your relationship with the drug, it changes. After winning instead of euphoria it's just a relief. And when you lost, it was, it was dark."

"You would do everything and anything to stop the fear of losing. Anything."

Cuts into Spygate.

Then in Ep4, talking about Mangini:
"Bill was very close to Eric and his pretty normal human reaction was a feeling of betrayal. And he distanced himself from those of us that were closest to him."

I think this is a well directed documentary. Director is giving us a look inside the psyche of the characters based on accounts from the players, executives, owners, coaches, that lived it; with a glance at how it was being perceived and portrayed at the time by the outside world.

It's an uncomfortable story about great men, with all their virtues and flaws. It's not for the squeamish. Team Bill may want to take a pass and dust off the 3 Games to Glory.series so they don't get big mad.

Boomer B · Feb 23, 2024

venecol said:
I found Pioli's comments interesting at the end of Ep3. He says so much with few words.

Winning is like a narcotic. The winning became addicting and we were enabling one another. "As time goes by, your relationship with the drug, it changes. After winning instead of euphoria it's just a relief. And when you lost, it was, it was dark."

"You would do everything and anything to stop the fear of losing. Anything."

Cuts into Spygate.

Then in Ep4, talking about Mangini:
"Bill was very close to Eric and his pretty normal human reaction was a feeling of betrayal. And he distanced himself from those of us that were closest to him."

I think this is a well directed documentary. Director is giving us a look inside the psyche of the characters based on accounts from the players, executives, owners, coaches, that lived it; with a glance at how it was being perceived and portrayed at the time by the outside world.

It's an uncomfortable story about great men, with all their virtues and flaws. It's not for the squeamish. Team Bill may want to take a pass and dust off the 3 Games to Glory.series so they don't get big mad.

I think Pioli’s comment about Bill distancing himself from the staff sets up the rest of the doc and ultimately to the downfall of Bill.

Curran, Holey, and Perry spoke about this very thing today. Bill started surrounding himself with family and friends. And one thing guys like Pioli and the rat Mangini did was challenge Bill.

Boomer B · Feb 23, 2024

I loved the attitude of Moss and Rodney. “**** em all”. I really wish they had won that SB, Moss really deserved one.

venecol · Feb 24, 2024

upstater1 said:
On Spygate, he said it was Belichick's hubris and arrogance that did him in, that he didn't have to follow the rules!

I mean, he's not wrong. In the 2007 interview they show, Bill talks about everyone doing it, that you can do it from the stands but when confronted about the rule, Bill admitted that he clearly was wrong.

I personally don't think it's a big deal after listening to Cowher say that everyone was doing it (stealing signs). Maybe not to the length Bill/Ernie went to, but they were all doing it. But let's not pretend that having a room full of tapes wasn't a big deal.

You claim Kraft threw Bill under the bus, when in fact he saved his butt:
1. By getting Goodell not to suspend him.
2. By making sure the tapes were destroyed.

Can you imagine if those tapes come out and team after team sees their signals being recorded, the outcry from 31 fanbases would've destroyed Bill. Kraft saved Bill's ass bigly.

HSanders · Feb 24, 2024

venecol said:
I mean, he's not wrong. In the 2007 interview they show, Bill talks about everyone doing it, that you can do it from the stands but when confronted about the rule, Bill admitted that he clearly was wrong.

I personally don't think it's a big deal after listening to Cowher say that everyone was doing it (stealing signs). Maybe not to the length Bill/Ernie went to, but they were all doing it. But let's not pretend that having a room full of tapes wasn't a big deal.

You claim Kraft threw Bill under the bus, when in fact he saved his butt:
1. By getting Goodell not to suspend him.
2. By making sure the tapes were destroyed.

Can you imagine if those tapes come out and team after team sees their signals being recorded, the outcry from 31 fanbases would've destroyed Bill. Kraft saved Bill's ass bigly.

excerpts of the tapes were played on tv by jay glazer. i am convinced that goodell leaked them to fox through his wife who worked at fox. they showed in one case, a filmer getting too into filming the cheerleaders,herm edwards waving at the camera (supporting the knowledge it was a common practice) and the actual purpose which was a shot of the hand signal then a shot of the game clock so that the call could be synched with the time it was made AFTER the game. all of that was stuff that was hand written by staff members in the past. the only thing different was recording it instead.the fact that people thought this was some big time cheating thing is bizarre.
the destruction of the tapes actually made it seem MORE suspicious.

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