DRAFT Dalton Keene

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
Kittle had a faster 40 time and broad jump. Keene’s broad jump wasn’t too far off (125 to 132) and was actually the top number for any TE this year.

Verticle, height/weight were similar, Keene did better on the bench and the 20 yard shuttle. Can’t find anything on kittle running a 3 cone to compare.

I give Kittle the edge on atheticism but that doesn’t mean Keene isn’t a good athlete in his own right.

They are not comparable athletes. Yes, the testable numbers are in Kittle's favor, but all you have to do is watch them to see they are on two different levels as athletes.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

UptownPatsFan said:
That was one play...show more evidence..Brady’s last throw was a pick-6...that was one play...is he no good?

That play was just something I get a chuckle out of. He tries hard, but he's a JAG.

Ras-IR Dowling · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
That play was just something I get a chuckle out of. He tries hard, but he's a JAG.

I think Keene got the last laugh in that game.

Uptown · May 7, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
Kittle had a faster 40 time and broad jump. Keene’s broad jump wasn’t too far off (125 to 132) and was actually the top number for any TE this year.

Verticle, height/weight were similar, Keene did better on the bench and the 20 yard shuttle. Can’t find anything on kittle running a 3 cone to compare.

I give Kittle the edge on atheticism but that doesn’t mean Keene isn’t a good athlete in his own right.

Yeah, I agree with that. But he said “much better” athlete. Like the comparison was night/day. Not even close. They are very similar, besides the .2 second 40 time & broad jump. Also, both Kittle & Keene had 7 second 3 cones. It’s right there in the link.

Wozzy · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Athletically he tested slightly better than the average TE. People keep treating him like he tested out of the gym. He tested slightly above avg and had no production. He's a JAG.

You obviously have an axe to grind...

Uptown · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Not to say they are the be all end all skills for a TE, but he runs and jumps better than Keene. Kittle's speed at TE is comparable to our 1st-Rd-bust WR's speed. Keene's is similar to the avg NFL TE.

Fair enough.

Wozzy · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
They are not comparable athletes. Yes, the testable numbers are in Kittle's favor, but all you have to do is watch them to see they are on two different levels as athletes.

They're very comparable athletes, plus Kittle had a pro day to improve upon his measurables and Keene didn't.

That you call Keene's measurables "average" prove you either can't discuss this objectively or you're sniffing glue.

Let me guess... you're a resident Belichick hater who believes twenty years of winning was only due to Brady?

Ras-IR Dowling · May 7, 2020

UptownPatsFan said:
Yeah, I agree with that. But he said “much better” athlete. Like the comparison was night/day. Not even close. They are very similar, besides the .2 second 40 time & broad jump. Also, both Kittle & Keene had 7 second 3 cones. It’s right there in the link.

Funny thing the only reason I brought kittle up wasn’t because I was comparing athleticism, I was just saying there are players who were underused in college and performed better in the pros.

If Keene reaches his full potential a better comp based on what we’ve seen at Va Tech could be the TE from Washington years back, Chris Cooley. A versatile player who can line up at different spots in the offense. He was a productive player for 5 years or so.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Wozzy said:
They're very comparable athletes, plus Kittle had a pro day to improve upon his measurables and Keene didn't.

That you call Keene's measurables "average" prove you either can't discuss this objectively or you're sniffing glue.

Let me guess... you're a resident Belichick hater who believes twenty years of winning was only due to Brady?

I don't hate BB, but I believe Brady made up for a large number of personnel blunders on the part of the front office. I also believe Brady allowed the Pats to save money on skill players by making avg-below avg players better than they would have been without him.

Keene's measureables are average. If you can watch the two of them (Kittles and Keene) on a field and think they're comparable athletically, I don't know what to tell you.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Wozzy said:
You obviously have an axe to grind...

No...just calling water wet.

randomk1 · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
I don't hate BB, but I believe Brady made up for a large number of personnel blunders on the part of the front office. I also believe Brady allowed the Pats to save money on skill players by making avg-below avg players better than they would have been without him.

Keene's measureables are average. If you can watch the two of them (Kittles and Keene) on a field and think they're comparable athletically, I don't know what to tell you.

Kittle also looks way bigger than Keene and 4.5 40 dash is freak level and he plays up to it.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

randomk1 said:
Kittle also looks way bigger than Keene and 4.5 40 dash is freak level and he plays up to it.

Keene looks like a JAG and has JAG numbers,

Kittle had JAG numbers (in college) but looked like an elite athlete. Like I mentioned before, the guy is as fast (if not faster) as our 1st rd bust of a WR.

Nunchucks · May 7, 2020

People are just Michel haters. Faulking ridiculous

TheRazorsEdge · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Kittle was far from a JAG athlete. Keene is not. I believe Patriots.com posted Keene's numbers vs the TE average. Where are these superior athletic traits people speak of?

Keene was literally the most athletic Tight end in the class. You are trolling. Good day sir.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

TheRazorsEdge said:
Keene was literally the most athletic Tight end in the class. You are trolling. Good day sir.

Yep...guys like Dalton Keene are tough to find.

TheRazorsEdge · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Yep...guys like Dalton Keene are tough to find.

Never made that case brother man, never even said he'd be great. You keep changing the goal posts lol..its pretty funny. Just pointing out that projection plays a big part of it. We didn't just draft "Rudy". Go watch Trey Flowers in college.. See what he was polished up to be by his last season here. He was talked about as a rotational run stuffing/edge setter..went on to become one of the better defensive linemen in the league.

I'm sure you saw his greatness early on tho..

TheRazorsEdge · May 7, 2020

We are fans of the team who literally drafted the best example of you can't go based off some game film/scouting notes/athletic traits alone... You need to peel back layers and see the dedication/drive/discipline/intelligence as well.

Again..maybe he's Kittle..maybe hes Garrett Mills... I don't know it..you dont know it. We will find out over the course of the next 2 - 3 years tho! Cheers my man.

Wozzy · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
I don't hate BB, but I believe Brady made up for a large number of personnel blunders on the part of the front office. I also believe Brady allowed the Pats to save money on skill players by making avg-below avg players better than they would have been without him.

Keene's measureables are average. If you can watch the two of them (Kittles and Keene) on a field and think they're comparable athletically, I don't know what to tell you.

They actually measure a player's athleticism along with their height and weight at the combine and pro days... it's literally in the name "measurables." We don't have to use some arbitrary eyeball test that you seem to think is more reliable than the scientific method lol.

You're taking Kittle who is already wildly successful, one of the best TE's in the NFL and saying Keene is "average" because his forty is a shade slower. Again Keene was 5 pounds heavier and only had one shot at it because his pro day got canceled. Kittle put up a 35" vertical leap at the combine but wasn't happy with it, at his pro day he tried again and leapt 38.5" in the air.

Keene could have retested at his pro day, as it was his measurables provided one the best sparq scores among all TE's in the draft. It's not a matter of opinion and your eyeball test is about as reliable as a wet fart in a paper bag on a rainy day.

BTW years ago I had Kittle rated as one of the best TE's in his draft class. He was picked in the 5th round, if BB had moved up up draft him you would say he was average... not because he was, but because you're a BB hater. BB has one of the best eyes for talent in the NFL, that's why the Patriots have won for 20 years.

Dalton Keene V Tech 6-4 253 4.71 34.0 21 125 7.07 4.19
Foster Moreau LSU 6-4 253 4.66 36.5 22 121 7.16 4.11
TJ Hockenson Iowa 6-5 251 4.70 37.5 17 123 7.02 4.18
George Kittle Iowa 6-4 247 4.52 38.5 18 132 7.00 4.77
David Njoku Miami 6-4 246 4.64 37.5 21 133 6.97 4.34

I don't see average... because it's not. Unless you mean the average of all the best scores available.

iapatsfan · May 8, 2020

Wozzy said:
They actually measure a player's athleticism along with their height and weight at the combine and pro days... it's literally in the name "measurables." We don't have to use some arbitrary eyeball test that you seem to think is more reliable than the scientific method lol.

You're taking Kittle who is already wildly successful, one of the best TE's in the NFL and saying Keene is "average" because his forty is a shade slower. Again Keene was 5 pounds heavier and only had one shot at it because his pro day got canceled. Kittle put up a 35" vertical leap at the combine but wasn't happy with it, at his pro day he tried again and leapt 38.5" in the air.

Keene could have retested at his pro day, as it was his measurables provided one the best sparq scores among all TE's in the draft. It's not a matter of opinion and your eyeball test is about as reliable as a wet fart in a paper bag on a rainy day.

BTW years ago I had Kittle rated as one of the best TE's in his draft class. He was picked in the 5th round, if BB had moved up up draft him you would say he was average... not because he was, but because you're a BB hater. BB has one of the best eyes for talent in the NFL, that's why the Patriots have won for 20 years.

Dalton Keene V Tech 6-4 253 4.71 34.0 21 125 7.07 4.19
Foster Moreau LSU 6-4 253 4.66 36.5 22 121 7.16 4.11
TJ Hockenson Iowa 6-5 251 4.70 37.5 17 123 7.02 4.18
George Kittle Iowa 6-4 247 4.52 38.5 18 132 7.00 4.77
David Njoku Miami 6-4 246 4.64 37.5 21 133 6.97 4.34

I don't see average... because it's not. Unless you mean the average of all the best scores available.

Keene is a "shade" slower than Kittle? Really?

Here is the data I was referring to earlier. I have no idea where this talk of him being ultra-athletic comes from. This is his data compared to the average at the combine. In a league where speed is measured in 1/10ths of a second in the 40, this guy was a few 1/100ths away from average. If Kittle is only a "shade" faster than Keene (4.5 vs 4.7), how is Keene more than average (4.71 vs 4.78). You don't get it both ways.

Patriots Draft Pick Profile: Dalton Keene

Do you honestly feel this guy's measureables, when compared to his lack of production and just simply watching him play should lead anybody to believe he is anything more than a JAG. If so why? Hope?

According to "those in the know" this TE class was weak. and this guy appears weak among a weak TE class. I'm sure Rudy is a nice enough guy, but he's an overachiever who has peaked right where he's at. He's a JAG. He plays like a JAG. He tests like a JAG (relative to NFL TEs). He has the production of a JAG.

He was a waste of a 3rd round pick, but he has nothing when it comes to N'Keal Underwood or One Knee Michel when it comes to wastes of picks. This year's team will be punished much more from those picks than the Rudy pick.

Wozzy · May 8, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Keene is a "shade" slower than Kittle? Really?

Here is the data I was referring to earlier. I have no idea where this talk of him being ultra-athletic comes from. This is his data compared to the average at the combine. In a league where speed is measured in 1/10ths of a second in the 40, this guy was a few 1/100ths away from average. If Kittle is only a "shade" faster than Keene (4.5 vs 4.7), how is Keene more than average (4.71 vs 4.78). You don't get it both ways.

Patriots Draft Pick Profile: Dalton Keene

Do you honestly feel this guy's measureables, when compared to his lack of production and just simply watching him play should lead anybody to believe he is anything more than a JAG. If so why? Hope?

According to "those in the know" this TE class was weak. and this guy appears weak among a weak TE class. I'm sure Rudy is a nice enough guy, but he's an overachiever who has peaked right where he's at. He's a JAG. He plays like a JAG. He tests like a JAG (relative to NFL TEs). He has the production of a JAG.

He was a waste of a 3rd round pick, but he has nothing when it comes to N'Keal Underwood or One Knee Michel when it comes to wastes of picks. This year's team will be punished much more from those picks than the Rudy pick.

You're a troll, talking to you is like pissing into the wind.

DRAFT Dalton Keene

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