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2016 Training Camp - Day 7 (8/4/16)


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Take off the homer goggles. Dobson's play has been at a level to earn the skepticism.



You're now comparing late round draft projects with a 2nd round pick, and using Edelman is a very bad idea. He was behind the greatest slot WR of all time. Dobson's been behind.... nobody (Brandon LaFell has been the best player in even semi-direct competition with Dobson).



Nate Washington has had 8 consecutive seasons with more receptions than Dobson's career high, as an outside WR. Washington's career y/r is 2 yards more than Dobson's.


Nate was and is a Flanker, not a split end. Edelman took several years to develop and was frequently injured then, just like Dobson, and many were ready to write him off. Amendola did his learning elsewhere, so Pats fans never saw it. Dobson may or may not make it, but the Pats until Mitchell have had no one else as a true candidate for that position, which needs size, deep speed, and downfield blocking ability.
 
If the Pats win it all, I could very well see Brady calling it a career with a big F.U. on National TV to Goodell.

Brady is too classy to do that.

He very well might diss him on a handshake....which I guess is a passive aggressive FU.:D
 
The hate against Dobson on this forum is atrocious. If we judged Troy Brown and Julian Edelman on what hey had done after 3 years, we would have viewed them as nobodies. Dobson was a 2nd round choice by the patriots. He is our homegrown talent. He was drafted as a project. He is only 25, he's just entering his prime, give him a final chance. This rooting against him calling him names thing is ridiculous.

Out of all our WRs, Dobson is the only one with the physical tools to become a true good outside X WR. Maybe Dobson at 25 healthy more mature it's finally clicking, maybe this is his breakout.

Whether it is or not, at least root for the guy

6'3" WR drafted in the 2nd round are not projects. 5' 10" option QBs getting converted to a WR, drafted in the 7th round are projects.

So it's just daft to bring up Edelman. Edelman was drafted as a project and if he worked out, then great and if he didn't it was only a 7th round pick.

Dobson has had 3 years and shown nothing outside of a couple solid games. Until Dobson can actually prove it he gets no benefit of the doubt. Year 4 and people are sitting here wondering if this is the year it clicks for him. Well the answer is No. This is what I see happening, Dobson has a solid to good preseason, then has 1 good game during the first 4 games and then he has one bad game where he drops multiple easy balls and doesn't see the field or is inactive for a number of weeks and then ends up on IR.
 
Oh no. This isn't good, career wise or life wise. Seems like Andrews will get the job.




Wow, how many concussions has this guy had in his short career? He could go the way of Mike Wright... hope he hasn't done anything permanent to himself
 
Wow, how many concussions has this guy had in his short career? He could go the way of Mike Wright... hope he hasn't done anything permanent to himself

Around 4 in the last 3 years and 3 in the last 2.. It's crazy that it's been that many that quickly. I mentioned elsewhere that Welker, in comparison, had 4 concussions also, but those were near the tail end of his career playing with the Fivehead. Still bad, but circumstances are easily explained. Here, Stork has only played a short amount of time, if that. Much higher rate. It's really sad.
 
And the movie always ends with Dobson making the team.

Pats have never had the WR depth before. If he makes it then 1 or 2 of the top guys are on the PUP
 
Some comments on the comments:

1. I am REALLY disappointed to hear that Stork is still dealing with concussion issues. After the 2015 season I strongly felt that he was going to be a "special" OLman, in the manner of Logan Mankins. But while you can come back from ACL's and Achilles Tendon tears, etc; if he's prone to getting a concussion at any time, he will never become what the Pats value the most, and that is a DEPENDABLE contributor.

Looking back on it, it seemed odd to me that the Pats once again loaded up on OLmen in the draft. But with Tre Jackson still on PUP with what might be a congenital knee problem, and the reports of Stork's concussions it makes a lot more sense to me now. But it still doesn't make it any less sad.

2. Back when I had my brief 2 year attempt to be an NFL player (70-71), TC was few weeks longer and included at least a full month of 2 a days, around 85% of which were full pads and full speed contact work outs. (at least that's what I remember in my dotage). Now it's important to understand that back in those days there were no off season programs or mini-camps. Everyone was on their own and you mostly showed up in early July and used the longer TC's to simply get into football shape. Also the season was only 14 games then, but since I never got that far; its not really part of the story. ;)

The point of all this is that we are all making judgements about players who now have had 5 practices with pads on, and in those 5 the contact was very carefully controlled. Back then, we probably had over 20 full contact practices before the first guys were cut.

I have my binkies just like everyone else, but I can't image having to judge players on such a small dose of work. You may be able to judge a player's athletic ability while he's in shorts and t-shirts, but the BEAUTY of football is that the most gifted athletes, aren't always the best football players.

This lack of practice time I believe is just ANOTHER horrible mistake that the NFL has made recently. And is a reason my love for professional football will never again stray beyond the narrow confines of the Patriots. You just have to watch the horrible tackling technique that is now common in the league as an example of how far the league has slipped. Every weekend I watch so called professionals using poor tackling techniques that I wouldn't have allowed my HS kids to use. And that just one area of the game.

Want to know why the Pats have been so consistently good, you just have to look at they way they practice and prepare. It must kill Bill to have such little time to actually COACH his players, but he and his staff still do it just a little better than everyone else. Pat Kirwan's podcast points out just how much the Pats get out of the very limited practice time that is put in.

Oops, I guess I'm ranting again....sorry

3. I want to echo those that have point out the effect Devlin's loss had on the running game last season. I also want to note that before he went down, he was becoming a very consistent pass catcher as well.

4. It's all about the OL in the end guys. I like the talent, but the question of if they will become `the consistent 2 way group we are hoping for won't really be answered until early October. The good news is, I guess, is that by the end of the season, the bar has been set pretty low. So I have decided to trust in Dante and not agonize over something until it actually starts to prove to be a problem.

BTW- as things stand right now with the Stork thing, my Binky OL would be Solder, Tuney, Andrews, Mason, and Volmer.

5. It seems pretty clear to me that both Edelman and Amendola are being held back to reduce the threat of injury to them. Getting them back after, say, the Saints pre-season game sounds about right. For Vets like themselves it's probably enough time to be ready for 9/11.

6. I've been a big Dobson defender to a degree, but the fact is that he has to stay healthy and produce on the field in these exhibition games if he wants to show he can have an actual impact on the team. His real problem will be getting looks. Think about it. Even if he starts opposite Edelman on the outside, he'll STILL be the 5th option at best behind Gronk, Edelman, Bennett, and Lewis. Hard to make an "impact" when you are getting only 3 or 4 looks a game.

7. If you are one of those guys who like to speculate on who will make the final 53, I don't envy you this year. Just guessing how many Bill will keep at each position group is going to be daunting, let alone who the players will be.

8. I love the way this team is setting up. There might not be a lot of so called "elite" players, but there ARE an awful lot of very good ones. Many years ago a very wise former coach of mine gave me what proved to be some very sage advice after I got my first HC'ing job. He said, "Football is a numbers game".

You can pencil in all your so called starters and compare them with your opponents all you want. But in the marathon that is a football season, especially in the NFL, it will be the quality of the back half of the roster that will often determine the outcome of your season.

The good news is that Bill has proven to be a master of the "back half of the roster" over the years, and it shows up in the results. Last season, the only team that came close to matching the level of injuries that the Pats did was the Ravens. DESPITE the injuries, the Pats came within a missed extra point from going to the superbowl, while the Ravens, under similar circumstances, suffered a 5-11 season.

Hopefully there will be fewer serious injuries this season, but even if that doesn't happen, I'm feeling the Pats will be a deeper team that even last season's squad.
 
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6'3" WR drafted in the 2nd round are not projects. 5' 10" option QBs getting converted to a WR, drafted in the 7th round are projects.

So it's just daft to bring up Edelman. Edelman was drafted as a project and if he worked out, then great and if he didn't it was only a 7th round pick.

Dobson has had 3 years and shown nothing outside of a couple solid games. Until Dobson can actually prove it he gets no benefit of the doubt. Year 4 and people are sitting here wondering if this is the year it clicks for him. Well the answer is No. This is what I see happening, Dobson has a solid to good preseason, then has 1 good game during the first 4 games and then he has one bad game where he drops multiple easy balls and doesn't see the field or is inactive for a number of weeks and then ends up on IR.

Dobson WAS a project. He went in the second round, but that is because the patriots reached. He was projected a 4th-5th rounder pre draft according to most experts. He was considered a project. Why the patriots drafted him over Keenan Allen I will never know,but Dobson does have talent. And he could be good in time. The time is now 4 years later. Keenan Allen was ready to be good year 1.
 
Develin is so underatted. His last year IR was huge blow for team run offense.

RB and OL are about the only two potential weaknesses on the roster so an extra blocker wouldn't go amiss at all. Whether he loses out to a numbers game, considering we'll be spending a lot of time in 12 formation is another matter. Develin likely wouldn't get that many snaps.

He'll make the team so long as he is healthy. His absence along with the OL injuries were the main reason our run game suffered. He is very much so an impact player on offense.

3. I want to echo those that have point out the effect Devlin's loss had on the running game last season. I also want to note that before he went down, he was becoming a very consistent pass catcher as well.


Happy to see Develin appreciation coming to the fore.
I also wonder how can he be so underrated - here of all places - so let me give you a taste of my overration.

@Manx: He's making the team, no doubt about it. And he's getting opportunities. Every game. Like PFK mentions he's great at receiving too. He's one of the most disruptive forces on the team. So he can be used in any situation without disclosing plays.

In my book he is a game changer. As simple as that. When nothing works, when O gets stuck, you bring him in and roll on. He's one of the first players I put on my roster board. When he was hurt last year I was really sad because I knew that certain part of a game plan that I like to watch was erased for the season.

I hope my overration is understood or forgiven.
 
Nate was and is a Flanker, not a split end. Edelman took several years to develop and was frequently injured then, just like Dobson, and many were ready to write him off. Amendola did his learning elsewhere, so Pats fans never saw it. Dobson may or may not make it, but the Pats until Mitchell have had no one else as a true candidate for that position, which needs size, deep speed, and downfield blocking ability.

There's so much fail here that I don' t even know where to begin. So, I'll briefly hit on a couple of obvious items:

  1. Washington has played both roles.
  2. Edelman had 37 catches (sound familiar?) on 54 targets in his rookie season, where he had to fill in for Welker for a couple of games, and got 7 starts. After that, the Patriots got Gronk/Hernandez and the offense changed, essentially placing Edelman as strictly the Welker backup, until Hernandez missed 6 games in 2012 and then took up residence in the Ironbar Hotel in 2013. Dobson's never had any similar issue to deal with.
 
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I see some of us are working up to getting into mid-season form...

Loved your post, Patfanken, always do.

Anyone know if Brissett is having his mechanics worked on? I have a hard time imagining that on a team with 2 quarterbacks with such quick releases that Brissett's long windup isn't going to become a focus on how to get him NFL ready.

Or maybe they are letting him do his thing and working on improving the speed of his reads?
 
Glad to read good things about 3 guys I follow with special interest: KGH, Gaffney, Valentine.

It seems at the moment its Brown over Gaffney and White over Foster but if Gaffney keeps getting more confident (and stays healthy w Brown maybe out for a while) it might get interesting. If he's good enough to make the team - he can bring some new excitement to our running game.

KGH & Valentine also bring some special features Id like to see in our game.
 
If the Pats made a distinguishment by receiver positions like they do for WR and TEs, there would be no question that the only real Split ends or X receivers candidates are Dobson and the rookie Mitchel. Just as they can also play slot or flanker, but not too well, there are a surfeit of slot recievers, and a few flankers/slots too, who can try to play Split End; but are not really suitable for it. Amendola and Hogan are filling the flanker position, and some view them as interchangeable with the true slot receivers; but it has become apparent that Hogan is really a flanker and not really a Pats slot guy at all.

Dobson just has to stay healthy and he has made the club already. This fills a hole that has existed since Moss left. The playoff teams have exploited this weakness before by pinching off the middle rendering the Pats Offense much less productive in Playoff games.

Nate Washington as much of a "split end" as Dobson and Mitchell.
How is it "apparent" that Hogan is "not really a Pats slot guy at all"? Especially when he hasn't practiced the last few days?

Your analysis leaves a ton to be desired because you just don't have adequate information to make the assumption you're making. Especially your ridiculous assumption about teams pinching off the middle against the Pats in the play-offs since that's happened all of once. The other times there have been bigger issues on the offense that have cost the Pats. In particular, the Offensive Line.
 
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And the movie always ends with Dobson making the team.
There is a reason inexplicable to the detractors as to why he has never been cut. The simple answer is that he was a) injured; and b) there were simply no other candidates for Split End, with the exception of LaFell, who lacked speed, for one year.
 
Dobson WAS a project. He went in the second round, but that is because the patriots reached. He was projected a 4th-5th rounder pre draft according to most experts. He was considered a project. Why the patriots drafted him over Keenan Allen I will never know,but Dobson does have talent. And he could be good in time. The time is now 4 years later. Keenan Allen was ready to be good year 1.
True
Let's not forget though Allen almost quit his rookie year because he wasn't feeling the love from the team.
There were reports he was ready to retire before he hit the field.
Maybe just maybe in the heavy amount of scouting that goes into these players someone said this Kid Allen needs to he coddled quits when things get tough.
Now does that sound like a guy BB would have anywhere near the top of his draft board?
To Allen's credit he fought thru his doubt and made a very good career for himself and rewarded the Chargers for sticking with him.
I don't think BB would of been as understanding and maybe just maybe it is time for Dobson to pay us back for taking a chance on the kid.
If he has a big season it will be one of the toughest choices this organization has ever made.
Is he just trying to get paid?
Or is Aaron snowing he is a elite Talent and needs to be prioritized as such.
First things first let's see if he doesn't avoid hits like the plague or makes easy catches look tough in preseason.
Not until he looks like AJ Green or Demaryious Thomas because he has the physical traits to be that good will I see him as anything more than a player who hasn't been worthy of his draft slot.
However my penchant and love for receivers has me rooting for him as much as anybody.
I really want to see Dobson,Harper,Lucien, come preseason.
And see if we are stacked or once again looking at guys who can't make the play when the lights are on and it actually matters whether or not they catch the frickin ball.
 
Cant really rate Dobson eitherway, hasnt been able to stay healthy in his 3 years to show anything. As a player you need consistency and he hasnt been able to get that
 
I am really worried about Stork. I am past giving a **** as to whether he beats out Andrews, I just want him to have a healthy life with his family.

They may get well paid, but these guys give so much for us to scream at the TV, shout from the stands, and argue on forums like this.

My thoughts are with him.
 
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