Is Welker worth $10 million

deters said:

$10 mill a year for Wes f'n Welker??

aahahahahaahahaha. Hell no he isn't worth that and if we offered that deal we'd be morons.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't you be on another thread telling us all about how quickly Gronk's young bones will heal?

Brady2Moss said:

And then you have no RT or CB Welker + Jennings or Bowe takes up all your capspace its one or the other. And I prefer the other Bowe is the answer. Brady can't throw accurately deep anymore so Bowe is the next best thing he can catch it 15-25 yards down field and he's big and physical. Jennings is 5'11 sick of schrimps

Click to expand...

That can be debated he didn't have a player who could get deep consistently.

Boomer B said:

I'm happy McDaniels was more committed to the run this year and I hope he is even more so as Brady ages. The reason we were 2nd in rushing attempts is that we had a lot more plays in general 'cause of the hurry up and turnovers caused by the D. We had more possessions this year.

Click to expand...

Why is that a bad thing?

How do we get better by throwing less to Welker? Well, us throwing a ton of short routes hasn't worked out in the playoffs against the better D's.

Click to expand...

This is faulty logic. We lose a game so the strengths of the team must be the reason?
We ran 34 times and lost, should we abandon the run?
We didn't blitz a lot and lost should we adandon that?

I'm not pinning anything on Wes but I think we need to make slight changes to the O. I'm all for keeping Wes but not as the main focus.

Click to expand...

Again, I ask, if he is on the field and gets open why would you not throw him the ball.
Welker doesn't catch passes because the coach says throw to Welker, Welker catches passes because he is the guy who is open.

As Rodney Harrison said today the Ravens out muscled the Pats like the Pats used to do to the Colts.

Click to expand...

Thats not actually what he said. He said the Ravens stretched the defensive holding and 5 yard chuck rule and the refs let them get away with it.

I think Belichick needs a WR on the outside who will make the safetys respect the deep ball. I would like to see more of the 2004 O, especially in the playoffs. Run the ball and use play action.

Click to expand...

I think Belichick an offense that is effective, and he already has that. Change for change sake is good when you suck, not when yuo are dominant.

The goal is to win the Super Bowl, not set records for points scored in the regular season.

Click to expand...

Thanks I didn't know that. I just want the team to set points records and the playoffs are stupid.
The answer to not winning the SB isn't to eliminate the strength that keeps getting you close.

ivanvamp said:

Hernandez and a 2014 draft pick for Larry Fitzgerald.

Click to expand...

That's a great idea, but why stop there! Lets also trade Alfonso Dennard, Ras-I Dowling and a 2016 draft pick for Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner.

The patriots resigning Welker will mark the end of the Patriot era. Welker is not a champion he is NOT a Troy Brown. He is Peyton Manning rolled up into a 5'9" receiver. He's too slow, short, and unreliable to take the team to the next level. If it was Welker instead of Troy Brown on that 2001 game ending drive, the game goes to overtime at best. If the Patriots pay him 10M it will be the end of a great run, but there will be no more Superbowls for NE. One guy who can't catch a "big" throw is a good as the next.

chowza said:

the patriots resigning welker will mark the end of the patriot era. Welker is not a champion he is not a troy brown. He is peyton manning rolled up into a 5'9" receiver. He's too slow, short, and unreliable to take the team to the next level. If it was welker instead of troy brown on that 2001 game ending drive, the game goes to overtime at best. If the patriots pay him 10m it will be the end of a great run, but there will be no more superbowls for ne. One guy who can't catch a "big" throw is a good as the next.

Click to expand...

................

I posted this in the other Welker thread, but I mean to post it in this one...so here it is:

Do you people realize how LITTLE the Patriots have paid Welker for the type of production he's put up for YEARS? It's really quite embarrassing.

In 2007, the Patriots signed Welker to a 5-year $18.1 million contract...that's $3.62 million a year for 5 years. During that time, the only season he didn't have WELL over 100 receptions was in 2010, the year after he tore his MCL and ACL in week 17. He STILL had 86 catches in 2010.

During this 5-year stretch, Wes Welker has had the MOST receptions and the 4th most yards of any receiver in the NFL. Again, he's making $3.62 million a year during this 5-YEAR stretch. Are you kidding me? It's true. They could have rewarded him for all the value he brought beyond his contract but they didn't.

Then the Patriots FINALLY showed him the money he deserved (for a long time) last year...but they didn't give him a contract...they franchised him only for one year. What if he had a career-ending injury this year?

If I'm Wes Welker, I'm chasing the money at this point in my career. The Patriots simply have not done right by him FOR SIX YEARS, basically. Now you see a whole bunch of Patriot fans wanting to low-ball him again, after he has not been payed his due EVER? I don't think so.

If nothing else, the Patriots owe it to him for what he has ALREADY done and not be compensated for.

Also, Welker never complained about any of this.

As far as I can see, Welker has already been had at an unreal discount, and he shouldn't settle for another one. Pay him what he deserves FINALLY, or he should go elsewhere.

ChoWZa said:

The patriots resigning Welker will mark the end of the Patriot era. Welker is not a champion he is NOT a Troy Brown. He is Peyton Manning rolled up into a 5'9" receiver. He's too slow, short, and unreliable to take the team to the next level. If it was Welker instead of Troy Brown on that 2001 game ending drive, the game goes to overtime at best. If the Patriots pay him 10M it will be the end of a great run, but there will be no more Superbowls for NE. One guy who can't catch a "big" throw is a good as the next.

Click to expand...

Brady2Moss said:

Now 2 outside guys (Lloyd and a true do it all receiver like Bowe) would alleviate some of this clogging. Lloyd sucks but its hard to imagine us replacing him and getting a true number 1.

Click to expand...

Ummm no, Lloyd does not suck. He's a 900 yard receiver which is definitely above average in the NFL. He's not a true #1 or deep threat but he's an excellent #2 receiver who creates separation on the outside, but not down the field.

The question we need to look at is the cap allocation required to retain Welker vs what else we could get for that 10m dollars, if indeed that is his pricetag.

VJCPatriot said:

Ummm no, Lloyd does not suck. He's a 900 yard receiver which is definitely above average in the NFL. He's not a true #1 or deep threat but he's an excellent #2 receiver who creates separation on the outside, but not down the field.

The question we need to look at is the cap allocation required to retain Welker vs what else we could get for that 10m dollars, if indeed that is his pricetag.

Click to expand...

Bingo. Lloyd is a great #2 receiver often playing against the opponent's #1 cornerback.

A great #2 receiver.....this discussion is beginning to remind me of baseball discussions about "elite set up men" relief pitchers....another fallacy. That said Lloyd is not garbage by any means. He is just not capable of being what he was billed as being. The real issue is that the Pats have to many guys that occupy about the same space on the field and that makes them very vulnerable especially when Gronk is not available. Lloyd does not change that but that does not mean that he is garbage.

However since this is another Welker thread I still don't think the Patriot Slot Machine is going to pay off for Welker cause it does not pay off for anybody. We know this already. Before being franchised Welker was doing the same thing here many players do....playing for less money on the chance to win a SB. Well he had that chance on his own two hands last year...guess where that ended up. So cry no tears for Wes Welker.

Brady2Moss said:

This is an honest question do you guys feel he is worth that much money, not in a vacuum, but given our current cap space of 20 million.

Its going to cost 8-10 million to keep Welker, and that means the offense that has scored 21, 17, and 13 (notice the downward trend!) in our last 3 playoff losses returns largely the same unless we draft a stud rolleyes: ).

At some point do we not need to change what we do as an offense it clearly does not work in the playoffs against good teams?

Click to expand...

In my opinion (and I really like Welker), no.

Brady2Moss said:

This is an honest question do you guys feel he is worth that much money, not in a vacuum, but given our current cap space of 20 million?

Click to expand...

His worth is his worth, regardless of the Patriots cap space.

Deus Irae said:

His worth is his worth, regardless of the Patriots cap space.

Click to expand...

A Lamborghini is worth several hundred thousand dollars but it's not worth getting given my limited budget.

You didn't answer the question.

DocHoliday said:

A Lamborghini is worth several hundred thousand dollars but it's not worth getting given my limited budget.

You didn't answer the question.

Click to expand...

Yes, I did.

Deus Irae said:

Yes, I did.

Click to expand...

You must be one of those guys that buy stuff just because they're on sale

DocHoliday said:

You must be one of those guys that buy stuff just because they're on sale

Click to expand...

I don't grasp your point here, but I answered the "worth" question back in post 16. It doesn't change the fact that worth is worth. Welker is worth what he's worth regardless of the availability of funds. A Mercedes that's worth $45 K is worth $45 K whether the prospective buyer makes $10,000 a year or $10,000,000 a year.

You're taking the argument of worth and trying to make it identical to affordability. Some people can't afford that $45k Mercedes, regardless of its worth. That's a separate, though related, discussion.

Deus Irae said:

I don't grasp your point here, but I answered the "worth" question back in post 16. It doesn't change the fact that worth is worth. Welker is worth what he's worth regardless of the availability of funds. A Mercedes that's worth $45 K is worth $45 K whether the prospective buyer makes $10,000 a year or $10,000,000 a year.

You're taking the argument of worth and trying to make it identical to affordability. Some people can't afford that $45k Mercedes, regardless of its worth. That's a separate, though related, discussion.

Click to expand...

He said not "not in a vacuum" and "given our cap space".

The meaning was pretty clear.

If the question is "will Wes get his money" I would say the answer is yes. To many teams out there that will see Wes as a major draw for their franchise...a piece that they can add to their puzzle that will be worth it in fan support and enthusiasm as much as anything. So you have to say Wes is worth it because of what he represents as a draw and as a player.

But that is exactly why I think it will be difficult for the Pats to compete for Wes as they simply do not compete for players that have entered that realm or have achieved that status. I do think there is a strong possibility that Brady kicks in the money by restructuring his deal to free up the money to bring Wes back. I actually think it is the only way Wes ends up back here next year.

DocHoliday said:

He said not "not in a vacuum" and "given our cap space".

The meaning was pretty clear.

Click to expand...

And so is the answer, which I gave. "Not in a vacuum" and "given our cap space" don't lessen his worth. He's worth the money. The question of how they would budget to get that money is a separate issue.