Bill O'Brien Getting Thrown Under A Bus

convertedpatsfan said:

The university cleared house? The university was FORCED to clear house, and even then, dragged their feet reluctantly every step of the way.

The cover-up was not just a football team issue, but went up to the athletic director and the senior vice president, both charged with perjury and failure to report suspected child abuse. The president issued a statement of "unconditional" support for both of them. He would later be forced to resign, over 3 years after the investigation was initiated.

Meanwhile, their head coach was forced to resign and an estimated 10,000 PSU students gathered in support of their coach and to protest, tipping over a news truck. A trustee involved in the matter told the media that the board actually considered letting Paterno finish the year, though ultimately deciding against it.

None of the above was about taking responsibility. It was all reactive, defiant at times.

Were there some PSU students, fans, and alumni who were absolutely disgusted by the entire cover-up. Absolutely. But not as many as you'd like to think considering the circumstances.

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This is just wrong on so many levels. You're basing everything on a grand jury presentment and haven't even delved into the pretrial testimony. The story has yet tom come out. Those two will not be dinged for perjury. And Paterno in the unreleased testimony was credited by the AG for pushing for an investigation very hard multiple times.

They weren't charged with failure to report because there's no law in PA for that. They were charged with perjury. I support the fact that they fired these people to preserve the rep of the university but I think in Paterno's case it was precipitous.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I don't know. The New York media is pretty clear that none of the high profile folks with NFL or major College coaching experience were interested in the job, whereas six months ago they would have been tripping over themselves to be Joe Pa's successor.

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New York media?

convertedpatsfan said:

The university cleared house? The university was FORCED to clear house, and even then, dragged their feet reluctantly every step of the way.

The cover-up was not just a football team issue, but went up to the athletic director and the senior vice president, both charged with perjury and failure to report suspected child abuse. The president issued a statement of "unconditional" support for both of them. He would later be forced to resign, over 3 years after the investigation was initiated.

Meanwhile, their head coach was forced to resign and an estimated 10,000 PSU students gathered in support of their coach and to protest, tipping over a news truck. A trustee involved in the matter told the media that the board actually considered letting Paterno finish the year, though ultimately deciding against it.

None of the above was about taking responsibility. It was all reactive, defiant at times.

Were there some PSU students, fans, and alumni who were absolutely disgusted by the entire cover-up. Absolutely. But not as many as you'd like to think considering the circumstances.

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I guess your perspective depends on timing. My point of view is reflected in regards to O'Brien (the thread). Again, PSU has cleared house with the remaining football staff under O'Brien's fate. Yes, there was a cover-up, and everyone involved in that cover-up has been fired. That is why the vast majority of Penn State students (enrollment 95,383) were outraged by the events of the last decade. As I mentioned earlier, the national media focused on the minority which protested the firing of Paterno.

patsfaninpa said:

Kim Jones from YES Network tweeted Bill O'Brien will be making 2.3m per with salary, radio and nike contracts.

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That's above even my prediction that topped out at $2 million,

vyrago said:

Do you suppose their next president will get half the scrutiny and criticism as BOB has gotten and will continue to get? Nah. After all, that's only academics. This is the really important stuff; this is football.

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He might but you have to know Pennsylvania to realize why.

It's not lost on people that this investigation began 3 years ago but was mothballed by sticking one investigator on it who didn't pay that much attention. The governor had million dollar deals with Sandusky's foundation. Even gave money to it this year (while he was investigating him!! supposedly!!). Then this year the President of PSU and the governor got into a very public fight. The next thing you know, tons of resources are assigned to this investigation, and two perjury charges are put on two subordinates to the President (the charges are lame and will not stick) and many widely assume it was done so the subordinates would flip on the President (which they never did). This has a political element to it. The next President is supposed to be former governor Tom Ridge, and that will be very controversial because he will try to employ the current governor's agenda when it comes to PSU.

upstater1 said:

This is just wrong on so many levels. You're basing everything on a grand jury presentment and haven't even delved into the pretrial testimony. The story has yet tom come out. Those two will not be dinged for perjury. And Paterno in the unreleased testimony was credited by the AG for pushing for an investigation very hard multiple times.

They weren't charged with failure to report because there's no law in PA for that. They were charged with perjury. I support the fact that they fired these people to preserve the rep of the university but I think in Paterno's case it was precipitous.

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You're right on a few points. We don't know the full story. But are you really going to give kudos to Joe Pa for pushing the investigation hard when nearly a decade earlier he did the absolute bare minimum when the allegations first came up? What a hero...

I am not familiar with PA-specific law, so I will have to concede the technicality that while they may have aided a pedophile, they may not have broken the law. Though this article seems to indicate that this law does, in fact, apply, though it may be difficult to prove.

They may have also violated the Clery Act, and I'm sure PSU's administration is more concerned about the potential loss of revenue than anything else.

scout said:

I guess your perspective depends on timing. My point of view is reflected in regards to O'Brien (the thread). Again, PSU has cleared house with the remaining football staff under O'Brien's fate. Yes, there was a cover-up, and everyone involved in that cover-up has been fired. That is why the vast majority of Penn State students (enrollment 95,383) were outraged by the events of the last decade. As I mentioned earlier, the national media focused on the minority which protested the firing of Paterno.

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Fair enough, but again, I feel those moves were only done in response to immense pressure. PSU administration's "response" at every step was incredibly, painfully slow at almost every step.

The original allegations came up in 2002. The investigation started early 2008. Yet Sandusky wasn't officially banned from campus until November 6, 2011, still two days after being formally indicted. That was the same day they also dealt with Curley and Schultz, only after they could no longer deny it.

There were many PSUers who took the charges seriously. There was a student-driven movement to fire Graham Spanier, well before the administration ever even considered it. This isn't meant to paint all of PSU with the same brush. But this is a serious questioning of the administration protecting themselves, seeming to only do the right thing when they had literally no other option.

I don't want to re-hash everything. A lot of it is still out there and we don't know what really happened yet. But when LaVar Arrington "threatens" to pack away his Butkus award or Short tells us BOB can't possibly understand some "tangible standard," it literally makes my jaw drop at how absolutely clueless people can be.

convertedpatsfan said:

Fair enough, but again, I feel those moves were only done in response to immense pressure. PSU administration's "response" at every step was incredibly, painfully slow at almost every step.

The original allegations came up in 2002. The investigation started early 2008. Yet Sandusky wasn't officially banned from campus until November 6, 2011, still two days after being formally indicted. That was the same day they also dealt with Curley and Schultz, only after they could no longer deny it.

There were many PSUers who took the charges seriously. There was a student-driven movement to fire Graham Spanier, well before the administration ever even considered it. This isn't meant to paint all of PSU with the same brush. But this is a serious questioning of the administration protecting themselves, seeming to only do the right thing when they had literally no other option.

I don't want to re-hash everything. A lot of it is still out there and we don't know what really happened yet. But when LaVar Arrington "threatens" to pack away his Butkus award or Short tells us BOB can't possibly understand some "tangible standard," it literally makes my jaw drop at how absolutely clueless people can be.

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I was stunned as most people were to the scandal. In regards to Paterno, I was in denial until the facts started coming out. I have never, will never, condone or defend the behavior of those involved with the cover-up. Anyone, regardless of status who defends that time period are idiots. Because someone produced accomplishments on the football field, does not give them a pass at being an absolute moron (LeVar Arrington). If you go to the PSU football discussion board (which would figure to be biased) they are not defending Paterno or the football program. I am sure when the story first broke, there were PS fans that were defending him. In simple terms, it's like watching Patfans forum after a Patriots really bad loss and see which members are a few cards short. Honestly, I want those former players to state their opinions (Franco Harris) to gauge their ethics, morals, intelligence, etc.

Only a madman would take this job.

Does it bother anyone that a madman is the OC of the NEP?

convertedpatsfan said:

You're right on a few points. We don't know the full story. But are you really going to give kudos to Joe Pa for pushing the investigation hard when nearly a decade earlier he did the absolute bare minimum when the allegations first came up? What a hero...

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I'm not giving him kudos. I thought he should have been fired as a general sentiment. As head of the program, not because i know he did anything wrong. At the time, I thought he had covered it up. After reading the pretrial testimony, I don't think that any more. The reporter who broke the story and got all the background details released got a hold of the pretrial testimony which painted a different picture. As I said, I didn't give him kudos, the attorney general did. And I'm not talking about the investigation now. I'm talking about 2002. That investigation.

convertedpatsfan said:

They may have also violated the Clery Act, and I'm sure PSU's administration is more concerned about the potential loss of revenue than anything else.

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Violations of the Clery Act are expensive but minor relative to the money PSU will spend in donations to abuse charities and lawyers. We're talking $5-6 million there easy, before civil damages. Eastern Michigan didn't report multiple murders and had to pay the federal gov't $200k. So, in the scheme of things, it's not their big concern.

convertedpatsfan said:

I don't want to re-hash everything. A lot of it is still out there and we don't know what really happened yet. But when LaVar Arrington "threatens" to pack away his Butkus award or Short tells us BOB can't possibly understand some "tangible standard," it literally makes my jaw drop at how absolutely clueless people can be.

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And they were called out by other ex-football players. With a school that big, literally 12000 grads each year, 1 out of every 1000 Americans is an alumnus, you're going to find quite a divergence.

scout said:

Who are "they".

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Brandon Short for one. Obviously he isn't as in touch with the intangibles as he should have been. For one, like the fact that they were protecting boy rapists.

But I do agree that students, administrators, professors have acted like idiots through this, and their program deserved to be rattled to the core.

Penn State will always be synonymous with boy diddlers from now on.

They should hire Rothlesburger, at least he goes after people above 18.

TheComeback said:

Are you kidding me? Last time I checked, there's a lot more to being an HC than playcalling, which O'Brien is very good at, by the way. But of course, spoiled Pats fans can never have enough... maybe you should watch Mike Martz or Kevin Gilbride if you want to see a playcaller who's actually worthy of criticism.

I think O'Brien's actually a much better fit as a college HC. He's knowledgeable, emotional, gets guys fired up, and by all accounts the players have a ton of respect for him. He definitely strikes me a strong leader, regardless of his playcalling ablities.

As for experience, give me a break. O'Brien has been a football coach for almost 20 years. If he's not ready now, he never will be.

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I respect your opinion. That said, we clearly disagree. Most of BOB's college experience was as a position coach. As an OC at Georgia Tech, his fist year wasn't bad. However, his second year wasn't good. And his offense at Duke was just plain bad. Time will tell if succeeds at PSU.

TommyBrady12 said:

Utterly appalled by all the BOB critics. Almost everyone on ESPN college game day says it's a terrible hire by Penn State. Plus all the former Penn State players and Alums saying he's "clueless." They would prefer someone in-house. But wouldn't it make more sense to bring someone from outside who has no ties to Penn State or the Sandusky thing?

I think BOB is going to do really well. Penn State has been a crummy program for a long time now.

Here's to BOB calling a great playoffs and telling the world what a great offensive mind he is and shutting up Lavar Arrington and all the other losers.

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Let's be clear on something though. "All" the former Penn State players and alums weren't saying he's "clueless." You had one single former player saying that, and the Letterman's Club made sure to distance their stance from his. Also, Arrington's comments were out of line, and he admitted as much later on.

The single largest problem PSU fans had with the hire isn't Bill O'Brien, it's the acting athletic director who carried out the search in such a pitiful manner (even if just publicly). It was unnecessarily drawn out, and the AD seemingly enjoyed his moment in the sun. Remember, this same AD was recently on the Board of Trustees who fired Paterno in such a shameless manner. There wasn't an overarching desire for someone in-house. In fact, many didn't want anything to do with any of the current assistants. Many wanted someone with at least a Penn State connection though (hence, the Munchak rumors). I will say many lettermen wanted Tom Bradley to be the choice, but he was never seriously considered, not due to Sandusky connections, but just due to him not being HC material. (remember, Pitt, Temple and UConn all passed on him last year)

O'Brien opened a lot of eyes during his press conference yesterday. He got a lot of fans to at least give him a chance. There are many who still doubt he can learn to be a HC on the job at a place where football is king. There are also many who will continue to believe Bill sees the Penn State job is nothing but a placeholder for an NFL HC job. But most fans are on Bill's side, and look forward to seeing what he can do to breathe life into an anemic offense and stale (even if mostly effective) defense.

upstater1 said:

Uh, you do realize there are 50,000 students at PSU right? The number of people at the riot were 2,000. Look up Penn State riots and you'll find maybe 10 of them in the two or three years. They rioted when Osama was killed. These blithering drunken idiots riot at the drop of a hat.

But no one reports the 15,000 students who turned out the next day for a silent candlelight vigil where you could hear a pin drop.

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Let's not confuse "rioting" with "a large crowd gathering"

Every "riot" at Penn State has been less than a couple dozen people actually doing any "rioting". I remember the first "riot" way back in 1998. I was a college student who had just gotten off work at a local restaurant. I lived near where the main "rioting" was going on. Which of course was about a dozen people burning a couch and then a couple thousand just hanging out wondering what was going on. Yet the media reported it in a manner that make the people of Watts cringe.

interrobang said:

Remember, this same AD was recently on the Board of Trustees who fired Paterno in such a shameless manner.

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Compassion for Joe Paterno and disappointment about how he was ousted is an odd reaction to the hiring of the new head coach.

Where is the compassion for the children who Paterno and the administration at PSU allowed Sandusky to lure onto campus and on team trips for his immoral, illegal and perverted acts?

One telephone call to the police is all that was needed. One call to say I have a report of an adult abusing a child on campus that needs to be investigated. One lousy phone call. That is what is shameless.

Joe Paterno got his one lousy phone call 20 years later to tell him he was fired for not picking up the phone in the first place. Tough break, Joe.

PSU needs a top-to-bottom housecleaning to remove every vestige of a system that allowed those who knew about Sandusky to look the other way or ignore the rumors for what, 20 years? You don't need to be a witness to call the police when any person - child or adult - is being threatened, neglected or sexually molested or harrassed.

The PSU Board of Trustees needs to resign or at least allow none to return when their term expires. The Board is complicit in the cover-up either by commission or by neglecting to know what crimes employees were committing on the premises of the non-profit they run.

This thing is around for years at PSU. If I was a PSU guy, I'd be wondering who the guy after O'Brien will be, because he's a caretaker of that job for two years at best. I'd also be worried about recruiting. Who's going to let their 18-year-old go to PSU as long as people are still there who looked the other way?

On O'Brien, he's a temporary head coach and he must know that. He took a job reporting to two interim guys in the President's and the AD's positions. If the Board has a brain, they'll replace those two guys with non-PSU guys who will bring in their own head football coach.

O'Brien will make a boatload of money, add HC to the resume for the first time, and move on to a better job in a bit. I would not be surprised if Belichick and Kraft have agreed to bring him back in some capacity if he needs a port in a storm down the road.

upstater1 said:

I'm not giving him kudos. I thought he should have been fired as a general sentiment. As head of the program, not because i know he did anything wrong. At the time, I thought he had covered it up. After reading the pretrial testimony, I don't think that any more. The reporter who broke the story and got all the background details released got a hold of the pretrial testimony which painted a different picture. As I said, I didn't give him kudos, the attorney general did. And I'm not talking about the investigation now. I'm talking about 2002. That investigation.

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I'm confused. As far as I can tell, there was no real investigation in 2002. And from all accounts, all Paterno says he did was pass the matter onto the AD and assumed it would be taken care of.

Violations of the Clery Act are expensive but minor relative to the money PSU will spend in donations to abuse charities and lawyers. We're talking $5-6 million there easy, before civil damages. Eastern Michigan didn't report multiple murders and had to pay the federal gov't $200k. So, in the scheme of things, it's not their big concern.

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Sorry, I was just being sarcastic. The PSU administration's response (or lack of) throughout the ordeal has been atrocious.

And they were called out by other ex-football players. With a school that big, literally 12000 grads each year, 1 out of every 1000 Americans is an alumnus, you're going to find quite a divergence.

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Fair enough. And as scout mentioned earlier, there's lots of angry PSU graduates and fans now, and it's totally understandable that the initial reaction was being stunned. My general disappointment with the administration along with a few knuckleheads isn't the full picture of all Penn State grads. But it'll be interesting to see BOB's first home game and how the crowd reacts.

goheels22002 said:

Compassion for Joe Paterno and disappointment about how he was ousted is an odd reaction to the hiring of the new head coach.

Where is the compassion for the children who Paterno and the administration at PSU allowed Sandusky to lure onto campus and on team trips for his immoral, illegal and perverted acts?

One telephone call to the police is all that was needed. One call to say I have a report of an adult abusing a child on campus that needs to be investigated. One lousy phone call. That is what is shameless.

Joe Paterno got his one lousy phone call 20 years later to tell him he was fired for not picking up the phone in the first place. Tough break, Joe.

PSU needs a top-to-bottom housecleaning to remove every vestige of a system that allowed those who knew about Sandusky to look the other way or ignore the rumors for what, 20 years? You don't need to be a witness to call the police when any person - child or adult - is being threatened, neglected or sexually molested or harrassed.

The PSU Board of Trustees needs to resign or at least allow none to return when their term expires. The Board is complicit in the cover-up either by commission or by neglecting to know what crimes employees were committing on the premises of the non-profit they run.

This thing is around for years at PSU. If I was a PSU guy, I'd be wondering who the guy after O'Brien will be, because he's a caretaker of that job for two years at best. I'd also be worried about recruiting. Who's going to let their 18-year-old go to PSU as long as people are still there who looked the other way?

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No one will doubt the seriousness of what happened at PSU (and more accurately, the entire central PA region). However, comments like this show how poorly the national media portrayed the real facts of this situation.

interrobang said:

No one will doubt the seriousness of what happened at PSU (and more accurately, the entire central PA region). However, comments like this show how poorly the national media portrayed the real facts of this situation.

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And they are?

Atlanta Patsfan said:

I respect your opinion. That said, we clearly disagree. Most of BOB's college experience was as a position coach. As an OC at Georgia Tech, his fist year wasn't bad. However, his second year wasn't good. And his offense at Duke was just plain bad. Time will tell if succeeds at PSU.

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Aside from Scar, you could say this about any Patriot assistant coach. Like his players Belichick takes no-name coaches but makes them better. But once he got here, O'Brien has guided the offense to 14-2 and 13-3 seasons, putting up over 450 points of offense each year. That's excellent. BOB is a smart, hardworking coach who has gotten better every year, and I like the 2 tight end offense he's used.

goheels22002 said:

Compassion for Joe Paterno and disappointment about how he was ousted is an odd reaction to the hiring of the new head coach.

Where is the compassion for the children who Paterno and the administration at PSU allowed Sandusky to lure onto campus and on team trips for his immoral, illegal and perverted acts?

One telephone call to the police is all that was needed. One call to say I have a report of an adult abusing a child on campus that needs to be investigated. One lousy phone call. That is what is shameless.

Joe Paterno got his one lousy phone call 20 years later to tell him he was fired for not picking up the phone in the first place. Tough break, Joe.

PSU needs a top-to-bottom housecleaning to remove every vestige of a system that allowed those who knew about Sandusky to look the other way or ignore the rumors for what, 20 years? You don't need to be a witness to call the police when any person - child or adult - is being threatened, neglected or sexually molested or harrassed.

The PSU Board of Trustees needs to resign or at least allow none to return when their term expires. The Board is complicit in the cover-up either by commission or by neglecting to know what crimes employees were committing on the premises of the non-profit they run.

This thing is around for years at PSU. If I was a PSU guy, I'd be wondering who the guy after O'Brien will be, because he's a caretaker of that job for two years at best. I'd also be worried about recruiting. Who's going to let their 18-year-old go to PSU as long as people are still there who looked the other way?

On O'Brien, he's a temporary head coach and he must know that. He took a job reporting to two interim guys in the President's and the AD's positions. If the Board has a brain, they'll replace those two guys with non-PSU guys who will bring in their own head football coach.

O'Brien will make a boatload of money, add HC to the resume for the first time, and move on to a better job in a bit. I would not be surprised if Belichick and Kraft have agreed to bring him back in some capacity if he needs a port in a storm down the road.

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One thing you have to realize is that the media moved on and decided whereas PSU fans are treated to daily doses of scandalous news.

Like this today: Jerry Sandusky's book, 'Touched,' helped police investigation into alleged sex crimes | PennLive.com

The whole story isn't out yet. There's a political angle to this. The pretrial testimony revealed by the same writer paints Paterno in a different light.

The national media has fixed the story according to the grand jury presentment, but the pretrial testimony contradicts that presentment.

My prediction: in the end, there will be two so-called villains. One, the assistant McQueary who did not describe in detail what he saw, nor characterized it to his superiors. Two, the head of campus police who refused to investigate despite a lot of fighting over the matter with Paterno.

In other words, the whole story hasn't been told yet.

I'll say this: Regardless of who is to blame, PSU still needed to clean house and fire everyone, and I agreed with that. I think the BOT precipitously fired Paterno in only one sense. They should have waited until the morning after informing Paterno directly, and secondly the drunken students would have been nursing hangovers. But, no way should Paterno have taken the field as coach.

convertedpatsfan said:

I'm confused. As far as I can tell, there was no real investigation in 2002. And from all accounts, all Paterno says he did was pass the matter onto the AD and assumed it would be taken care of.

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You're focusing on the grand jury presentment which solely addressed the charges against the administrators and Sandusky. That presentment said nothing about what Paterno did beyond going to his "superiors." That doesn't mean, however, that he did nothing. The state AG in fact commended Paterno in that presentment. But for what? That's the key question.

We didn't know until the unauthorized release of someof the pretrial testimony. Paterno went to the campus head of police weeks later and was livid at the lack of an investigation. This will all come out in court. Among other things revealed is that the campus head of police was given the child's name by Sandusky and the kid was interviewed by Schultz (the head). Like all the kids Sandusky molested, the kid initally declined to say anything. Read the article below which shows that all the victims were reluctant to come forward except victim #1 (the high school kid molested in 2008).

In addition, though I was willing to cut McQueary a lot of slack earlier, it may be that he did not reveal the extent of what he saw. His friends said as much when he spoke to them the night of the molestation. They said he described nothing like what was in the presentment.

The take in many Pennsylvania circles is that the PSU people certainly screwed up in 2002 but that there wasn't a concerted effort at a cover-up. Look at what they did in 1998 when they brought state and local authorities into the investigation. Back then, Sandusky was still a coach. If they were willing to investigate back then, why not in 2002 when he was no longer a coach? If they were covering up to protect the program in 2002, why not in 1998 when they launched an investigation? Read the link in the article below if you're interested in more info. You'll find that the state didn't have much interest in investigating either. Many suspect the full scale investigation was launched because of the governor's fight with the PSU President, and that Paterno was collateral damage as the governor was trying to put heat on the President. In that article you'll find it was the parents who suggested the investigators look in logical places (like Sandusky's book) and also, only PSU retained info about the 1998 investigation. The local police and state authorities had no record of the investigation.

Jerry Sandusky's book, 'Touched,' helped police investigation into alleged sex crimes | PennLive.com