Penalties being considered for the Pats - UPDATED 1/1/2020

[Tony2046]

I always say damn it Tom Brady was here.

Same here.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Anyhow, I’m fully on board with the @sb1 theory:
* Brady didn’t know.
* McNally and Jastremski on their own were deflating balls back to the legal limit at games where the refs pumped them over the limit.
* Other teams were doing the same thing all the time. For example, Green Bay was probably doing it in the opposite direction. (Though all Rogers admitted to was submitting the balls over the limit - he did not admit to doing anything with the balls after they were submitted. But I bet Green Bay was pumping them up to the max legal limit)
* Teams all knew other teams were doing it and nobody really cared.
* When Brady made the rulebook taunt Harbawl in a whiny fit of pique decided to screw NE and falsely told the Colts NE was going beyond the unwritten rules of what many teams were doing with balls.
* As we saw from the Wells report, NE submitted the balls at a legal pressure and the refs did not make the balls illegal.
* Since the refs didn’t overinflate the balls, McNally didn’t do anything to the balls.
* The AFCCG was a raw, rainy night and the Colts, refs, and NFL officials knew nothing of the ideal gas law.
* The refs checked the balls at halftime and we all know what happened next.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Facts:

• NFL never cared about PSI levels as evidenced by the fact they used $20 un-calibrated pumps you could purchase at Walmart. If staying within the all important 12.5 - 13.5 range was vital they would have scientifically calibrated instruments at every stadium. (the 12.5 - 13.5 is just the suggested PSI level on the side of the box - there is absolutely no magic to it)
• The 2 pumps used in the AFCCG were "off" by over .3 in many of the measurement and despite the ref thinking the Pats had used the pump more favorable to their position they chose to assume the other one had been used for their findings
• NFL knew that the "balls were 2 PSI under" was a lie but allowed it to stand with the media for months.
• All games played in cold weather are played with balls below 12.5 PSI

Conjecture:

• Patriots liked the balls at the lowest level of PSI possible and may have used a gauge more calibrated to their likes when submitting the balls to the refs (GB may have done the exact opposite)
• Texts were nefarious (since many of the texts exonerate the alleged scheme I do not buy the NFL narrative and I assume they purposely took them out of context)
• Most NFL owners and fans hate the Pats and want it to be true so they have no interest in looking into the truth
• Most media loved a juicy story and since the truth was not sexy they failed to really dig into it (Sally Jenkins and a few others were exceptions)
• Even if the NFL had actually been correct this "scheme" was such a nothing burger it is astounding

 

[QuantumMechanic]

• Even if the NFL had actually been correct this "scheme" was such a nothing burger it is astounding

That right there is the single most important thing about Deflategate.

Heck, even if it one day became known that Brady was some evil genius who planned and orchestrated the whole thing, as long as the ballboys kept the ball within legal limits the whole thing is a nothingburger that deserved a “hey, stop it” and a $25K fine at most.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Facts:

• NFL never cared about PSI levels as evidenced by the fact they used $20 un-calibrated pumps you could purchase at Walmart. If staying within the all important 12.5 - 13.5 range was vital they would have scientifically calibrated instruments at every stadium. (the 12.5 - 13.5 is just the suggested PSI level on the side of the box - there is absolutely no magic to it)

There actually is a bit of “magic” to it — the NFL rules say the ball has to be 12.5-13.5. Sure, they just took it from the box, but it was made the rule, so for purposes of games it is not just some manufacturer suggestion.

But you’re totally right that no one ever really cared about it, for all the reasons you gave.

 

[Doctor DDS]

If the 12.5 - 13.5 was so important the NFL should be checking the balls after every drive and adjusting them to specifications in real time. Early season games in Miami and Jacksonville would require air to be removed and late season games in Buffalo and Green Bay would need to be pumped up regularly (maybe even mid drive now that I think of it because 'What about the kids")

 

[Tottie]

Since you guys are on PSI levels, it was sad and funny to see 'analysts' try and say 1 psi was such a massive difference and would provide a huge advantage. Like these people even knew what PSI stands for. This was before the real PSI numbers were later released.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Since you guys are on PSI levels, it was sad and funny to see 'analysts' try and say 1 psi was such a massive difference and would provide a huge advantage. Like these people even knew what PSI stands for. This was before the real PSI numbers were later released.

Yes, that fact was belied by some of them hilariously stating that the balls had been "weighed" (including Kensil, the VP of Ops).

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Waiting on the PSI reporting..

Oh wait, it was a witch hunt, they never intended to actually do it.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Can’t believe the how many people are buying the NFL’s hogwash.

First of all, it was no coincidence that McNally went to the bathroom with the calls. That is what triggered the investigation. This was a sting operation. That’s why the Colts claimed the balls were deflated because they thought they had the smoking gun. The actual feel/air pressure of the ball in cold weather was normal and was not the reason for the accusation. The Colts and NYJFL thought the Pats were caught red handed.

I’m sure the NFL scoured every other game -
home and away - for evidence that the Patriots deflated balls. The investigation was not limited to the AFCCG.

In terms of “the deflator” about weight loss, who the f knows. It is the job of these two to inflate/deflate balls to an absurdly precise level with TB12. What is known the NFL spent $20M to prove foul play and proved the opposite. One text even referenced 12.5 or 13 PSI as the was Tom likes it. Couldn’t be clearer.

Nothing you say contradicts what SB1, Quantum, or I are arguing...

Yes, the NFL looked at other games but there was very little proof since the Pats routinely deleted surveillance video so no one could see if McNally took the balls to the bathroom before every game. Secondly, the league didn't measure the footballs at a Pats game until the AFCCG.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Since you guys are on PSI levels, it was sad and funny to see 'analysts' try and say 1 psi was such a massive difference and would provide a huge advantage. Like these people even knew what PSI stands for. This was before the real PSI numbers were later released.

The funny thing was the jokers on espn playing around with footballs and coming to the conclusion it absolutely was an advantage, a real dog and pony show. Dont forget the fumble stats which has quietly never been brought again since its proven to by horse$hit.

 

[Tottie]

The funny thing was the jokers on espn playing around with footballs and coming to the conclusion it absolutely was an advantage, a real dig and pony show. Dont forget the fumble stats which has quietly never been brought again since its proven to by horse$hit.

Oh I remember that segment. It was a farce. Spewing opinions has become big business everywhere we look these days and honestly it's dangerous. This is just sports so it's pretty much trivial.

 

[upstater1]

Anyhow, I’m fully on board with the @sb1 theory:
* Brady didn’t know.
* McNally and Jastremski on their own were deflating balls back to the legal limit at games where the refs pumped them over the limit.
* Other teams were doing the same thing all the time. For example, Green Bay was probably doing it in the opposite direction. (Though all Rogers admitted to was submitting the balls over the limit - he did not admit to doing anything with the balls after they were submitted. But I bet Green Bay was pumping them up to the max legal limit)
* Teams all knew other teams were doing it and nobody really cared.
* When Brady made the rulebook taunt Harbawl in a whiny fit of pique decided to screw NE and falsely told the Colts NE was going beyond the unwritten rules of what many teams were doing with balls.
* As we saw from the Wells report, NE submitted the balls at a legal pressure and the refs did not make the balls illegal.
* Since the refs didn’t overinflate the balls, McNally didn’t do anything to the balls.
* The AFCCG was a raw, rainy night and the Colts, refs, and NFL officials knew nothing of the ideal gas law.
* The refs checked the balls at halftime and we all know what happened next.

1. What's the evidence for #2. Based on what???? Where does any of that even come from? I never saw anything that said they did it outside of their two texts. That's what the whole thing was based on.
2. The Ravens didn't know squat. Those balls were totally controlled by refs. Delusional.

 

[Ring 6]

Nothing you say contradicts what SB1, Quantum, or I are arguing...

Yes, the NFL looked at other games but there was very little proof since the Pats routinely deleted surveillance video so no one could see if McNally took the balls to the bathroom before every game. Secondly, the league didn't measure the footballs at a Pats game until the AFCCG.

So you think that making up a crazy story gets credence because there is no proof that what you made up didn't happen?
Because there is absolutely no legitimate evidence that it ever happened

 

[Ring 6]

1. What's the evidence for #2. Based on what???? Where does any of that even come from? I never saw anything that said they did it outside of their two texts. That's what the whole thing was based on.
2. The Ravens didn't know squat. Those balls were totally controlled by refs. Delusional.

There is no evidence.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Can’t believe the how many people are buying the NFL’s hogwash.

First of all, it was no coincidence that McNally went to the bathroom with the calls. That is what triggered the investigation. This was a sting operation. That’s why the Colts claimed the balls were deflated because they thought they had the smoking gun. The actual feel/air pressure of the ball in cold weather was normal and was not the reason for the accusation. The Colts and NYJFL thought the Pats were caught red handed.

I’m sure the NFL scoured every other game -
home and away - for evidence that the Patriots deflated balls. The investigation was not limited to the AFCCG.

In terms of “the deflator” about weight loss, who the f knows. It is the job of these two to inflate/deflate balls to an absurdly precise level with TB12. What is known the NFL spent $20M to prove foul play and proved the opposite. One text even referenced 12.5 or 13 PSI as the was Tom likes it. Couldn’t be clearer.

My favorite part of the report was "although Anderson reports using the gauge that would result in a finding of no tampering, the more salient source of information is who's signing the check." Or words to that effect.

Wells report disregards Anderson’s “best recollection” on a key piece of evidence

 

[Ring 6]

My favorite part of the report was "although Anderson reports using the gauge that would result in a finding of no tampering, the more salient source of information is who's signing the check." Or words to that effect.

Wells report disregards Anderson’s “best recollection” on a key piece of evidence

The pictures of the gauges were sweet too. To make them look the same length they misaligned them so the pointed ends made it look that way, and to dismiss the enormous bend that Anderson said made him remember which one he used they twisted it so the bend was in the unseen dimension

 

[TB_Helmet]

I just explained why the texts weren't sketchy.

They seemed sketchy, but the context is easy to understand when you match them up with the facts.

Four or five simple things to remember.

1. The May text happened out of season when they weren't deflating balls. The ballboy claimed they were joking about a commercial that referred to losing weight as deflating. Sounds sketchy but...

2. Remember that Brady was playing with a ball inflated to 16 or more PSI. He yelled at the equipment guy. When the equipment guy apprised him that the refs are the ones who inflate the balls, Brady texted, "Then bring the f'in rule book with you and show them the damn thing."

2a. It's conceivable that Brady also advised them to deflate balls at this point BUT -- if this was the moment they started doing it (and the thing about the rule book clearly shows Brady wanted the refs to do it right) -- then the May text about deflating isn't about deflating footballs. After all, it came BEFORE Brady being informed in October (Jets game) that the refs are in charge of inflating balls.

3. The November text was sent within 60 seconds of the equipment guy appearing on TV at a Packers game (where the Packers' ballboy controls the balls),wearing a big puffy coat, and holding a jacket for a Patriots player. The tweet read, "Deflate, and hand someone that jacket." I can't see how anyone reads this as anything other than the fact the guy was looking chunky in a big puffy coat.

4. Finally, the ballboy was a guy getting paid $8 an hour. This guy somehow was interviewed for over 20 hours, in a span of 3 days, by Ex-FBI investigators. He told them this very hard to believe story about deflating as weight loss. And somehow, this criminal mastermind didn't trip up while being interrogated by the best of the best! If so, he missed his calling. He's worth a lot more than $8 an hour.

I think point 2 here is critical in explaining the “deflator” text that everyone gets so fixated on.

If you want to focus on that text, you also have to focus on another text months later where the equipment guys learn what the official PSI rules are, thus rendering the first text irrelevant for the purposes of the “scandal”.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think point 2 here is critical in explaining the “deflator” text that everyone gets so fixated on.

If you want to focus on that text, you also have to focus on another text months later where the equipment guys learn what the official PSI rules are, thus rendering the first text irrelevant for the purposes of the “scandal”.

What about the text where McNally says "the only thing that is going to deflate is Tom's passer rating"? Can't explain this away by some fantasy notion that "deflate" means weight loss...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The pictures of the gauges were sweet too. To make them look the same length they misaligned them so the pointed ends made it look that way, and to dismiss the enormous bend that Anderson said made him remember which one he used they twisted it so the bend was in the unseen dimension

All of the non-Exponent mathematicians concluded the same thing. The difference in 0.3 expected PSI can be accounted for by:

A. The gauge that Anderson said he used, rather than the other gauge that he said he didn’t used but the Wells report chooses to use nonetheless.

or

B. An elaborate scheme to remove an extra 0.3 PSI (an absurdly small amount, certainly different from the 2-3 pounds!!!! leak) from each football. And so coincidentally 0.3 was both the difference in gauges and the amount they nefariously decided to release.

And even if you do believe the other gauge was used (because you are really stupid), the 0.3 difference is well within the margin of error since exact conditions were unknown and testing devices were not precise.