Reports/Speculation: Texans will pursue Caserio AGAIN after 2020 Draft/UPDATE - Rumor: He wants out

[XLIX]

I'm not sure that's exactly true. Parcell's contract ended after the superbowl. He made it clear he wasn't coming back.

The Pats got those picks BECAUSE the Jets didn't just tamper, they crashed the party well before Parcells was through with his duties that season. There was no "probably" about it. It was a simple case of the former Jet employee commissioner ONCE again protecting a NY franchise by brokering acceptable compensation for breaking the rules without having to actually formally "punish" his former team. It would have set a very bad precedent.

That’s not exactly what happened.

The Patriots Super Bowl season was 1996 (with the Super Bowl itself played in January 1997) and Parcells’ contract went through the 1997 season. Parcells asked out of the final year of the contract and was allowed out on the condition that he not coach anywhere else. So it is splitting hairs to argue whether the contract ended or not because the bottom line is that he was obligated to the Patriots in 1997 and was contractually forbidden from coaching anywhere else.

That’s why the NYJ hired Belichick as the HC and Parcells as a “consultant” for 1 year (BB is known as having been announced as HC of the NYJ two times yet never coached a single game for them as HC. This was the first of those 2 times.)

Of course, having Parcells as a “consultant” was just a sham way of doing an end-run around the fact that he couldn’t be officially titled “head coach.” Paul Tagliabue (who I don’t believe ever worked for the Jets) sat everyone down and brokered a deal for NE to let Parcells out of his contractual agreement.

So again, there was no tampering investigation or punishment for tampering. The draft picks were compensation for the Patriots releasing Parcells from his contractual obligations.

 

[XLIX]

Malcolm Butler is the son of a Stark and Targaryen

What does Malcolm Butler and Game of Thrones have in common? They both started to suck in Season 5.

 

[XLIX]

PFT is suggesting the clause is against league rules yet Tagliabue set the market when the Jets had a similar clause for Belichick. People were fine with it then but now that it’s the Patriots invoking it they want to claim it’s illegal. Caserio clearly knew what he was signing and agreed to it.

This situation has nothing to do with Belichick’s situation with the Jets 20 years ago.

Florio has a point and, quite honestly, his article was one of the thoughts that occurred to me a couple days ago. Let’s all put aside our league office paranoia and consider the following:

A contract cannot overrule a league rule. If the league has a rule that says “ABC applies to all front office employees” then you can’t create a contract with Caserio which includes a clause that says “ABC doesn’t apply to you.” Oh sure you could create the contract and even have everyone sign the contract, but that clause will be thrown out in a heartbeat if it gets challenged. (And, sure enough, Florio mentions an NFL source told him that’s precisely what happened to a separate team in a separate situation)

It seems to me that if Caserio and the Texans pushed the matter really hard, they’d win. But Caserio either wants to stay or, perhaps more likely, merely doesn’t want to leave on bad terms. So this whole thing was much ado about nothing as ultimately, nothing has changed.

 

[p8ryts]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Casserio has been here since 2001. He's played a major role here since Pioli left in 2008 IRRC. He's fills a lot of roles here BEYOND that of being the head of pro and college personnel. He coaches WR's and QB's on the field and has a direct line to Josh on game day with game booth responsibilities. As far as I know he's the ONLY "GM" with such a varied array of roles.

So losing him this late into the off season would clearly be damaging. Plus this year that damage would be multiplied by the significant losses the coaching staff had this off season. IIRC they've already lost 5 or 6 assistants, many of them key guys. And don't forget the Pats annually start with the smallest staff in the league, so again the effect of those losses get escalated.

Casserio leaving at this time is not going to be easy to replace. Ossenfort would likely inherit his personnel roles, and if that was all Nick did it would be manageable, but as stated before it ISN'T.

2. Sounds to me like tampering will be hard to prove. It was a social event. Easterby IS a friend. They share the same agent. So unless someone has a tape of Jack giving him a hard sell, the fact they were seen talking isn't exactly a smoking gun. The only thing that was fishy was that the next day the Texans fired their GM. It's certainly suspicious, but you have to have more to prove tampering.

3. Let's assume Nick actually wants to go. He'd get full personnel control He'd be among people he knows. He'd start with a franchise QB and more individual stars then he has here. Its one of the league's better top 25 rosters outside of its OL. Lots of cap space. Plus he'd get a honeymoon year since this year's team would NOT be his responsibility.

Plus unless the Pats hit home runs this year and next drafts, the Pats, while certainly a contender this season, will have a declining QB at the end of his reign, a depleted coaching staff, and a GOAT HC and QB who could call it quits at anytime and not surprise anyone. And while the Pats have almost no cap flexibility the next 2 season, the Texans have plenty.

Add to the fact he just saw a guy with ZERO GM experience get $3MM per year and FULL control of the football operations; its hard to think this might be just the time to make his move after a run which saw 5 AFCCG's in a row, 4 suerpbowls and 3 chanpionships.

4. On the plus side, his BFF is still here and likely to be the next HC. His family with 3 school age kids is deeply rooted in NE, and Kraft is likely to match any financial deal Houston would give him.

5. Here's the thing. If Casserio is adamant about leaving the BEST the Pats can hope for is getting SOME compensation. Houston's offer would likely be the 3rd round comp they are going get. The Pats would certainly demand a first given the importance of Casserio, the immediate damage it would cause the Pats, AND the bad timing of the Houston request.

A second would be the obvious compromise.....and maybe add an additional 4th or 5th.

BTW- The Patriots need to do some explaining about who exactly is going to be coaching the team this season. Is the staff filled right now or are there additions to be made? Because right now it would seem like there are a number of open positions on the staff right now. And to me, this is a MUCH bigger problem than who is going to play TE

I haven't seen anything that makes me think he wants to go. Where does that belief come from?

 

[Ivan]

This situation has nothing to do with Belichick’s situation with the Jets 20 years ago.

Florio has a point and, quite honestly, his article was one of the thoughts that occurred to me a couple days ago. Let’s all put aside our league office paranoia and consider the following:

A contract cannot overrule a league rule. If the league has a rule that says “ABC applies to all front office employees” then you can’t create a contract with Caserio which includes a clause that says “ABC doesn’t apply to you.” Oh sure you could create the contract and even have everyone sign the contract, but that clause will be thrown out in a heartbeat if it gets challenged. (And, sure enough, Florio mentions an NFL source told him that’s precisely what happened to a separate team in a separate situation)

It seems to me that if Caserio and the Texans pushed the matter really hard, they’d win. But Caserio either wants to stay or, perhaps more likely, merely doesn’t want to leave on bad terms. So this whole thing was much ado about nothing as ultimately, nothing has changed.

Disagree completely, in the Belichick issue the Patriots were clearly offering a promotion to GM/total control, and the Jets were saying promoting him to HC overrode the greater promotion. Tagliabue ruled in favor of the Jets and the Patriots had to pony up.

 

[XLIX]

Disagree completely, in the Belichick issue the Patriots were clearly offering a promotion to GM/total control, and the Jets were saying promoting him to HC overrode the greater promotion. Tagliabue ruled in favor of the Jets and the Patriots had to pony up.

Even though it came about in an ass-backwards way, BB was (at the time) contractually the HC of the NYJ. Once that’s the case, other teams can’t hire him away by simply offering more power. If you’re above logic was correct, then any team could steal any HC from any other team at any time simply by saying “well, we will make him our head coach AND give him more power than you give him so it’s a promotion, therefore you can’t block it!”

The fact is Belichick was under contract with NY. He quit his job as HC of the NYJ, but that doesn’t make him free to coach other teams (even if those teams were offering more power and greater responsibilities). Belichick went so far as to hire our old friend Jeffrey Kessler and sued the league in federal court. Belichick lost.

 

[patfanken]

I haven't seen anything that makes me think he wants to go. Where does that belief come from?

No where, it's all speculation. HOWEVER, here's the thing. I find it hard to believe that they'd publicly want to interview him without finding out that was a least some interest by Nick. It's harder still to think that on ring night Easterby (who had to know that Gaines would be gone) didn't at least mention the opportunity that was going to open up. If Nick had said, "well that's interesting, but I'm not interested", they never would have asked for the interview.

Again, pure speculation. BUT if I were Ben Volin, I would have written a headliner saying I had a source who told me.....

 

[DaBruinz]

I respect that Florio was a lawyer in a past-life but PFT is talking out if it's ass.

Florio needs to do a better job researching.
Caserio would be considered a "Football Operations" Employee as defined by the Anti-Tampering Rules.

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018 Policies/7-2018 Anti-Tampering Policy-Clean Version.pdf

"“Football Operations” is defined as including all members of a club’s coaching, scouting, equipment, training, video, grounds crew, football travel/logistics, public relations, player engagement, football analytics and technology staffs, and medical, sports science, and athletic training departments, as well as the positions of general manager, contract negotiator, and their staffs."

(I bolded and underlined)

So quoting the "Non-Football" Employee section is irrelevant..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Even though it came about in an ass-backwards way, BB was (at the time) contractually the HC of the NYJ. Once that’s the case, other teams can’t hire him away by simply offering more power. If you’re above logic was correct, then any team could steal any HC from any other team at any time simply by saying “well, we will make him our head coach AND give him more power than you give him so it’s a promotion, therefore you can’t block it!”

The fact is Belichick was under contract with NY. He quit his job as HC of the NYJ, but that doesn’t make him free to coach other teams (even if those teams were offering more power and greater responsibilities). Belichick went so far as to hire our old friend Jeffrey Kessler and sued the league in federal court. Belichick lost.

The facts are here for you both.

@Ivan

https://www.americaninno.com/boston...involved-in-antitrust-suit-against-nfl-video/

The Trade: Was Belichick to New England the Best Deal in League History?

 

[XLIX]

The facts are here for you both.

@Ivan

https://www.americaninno.com/boston...involved-in-antitrust-suit-against-nfl-video/

The Trade: Was Belichick to New England the Best Deal in League History?

I read that article to jog my memory prior to making my post (I had actually forgotten about the federal lawsuit and Kessler's involvement until that article jogged my memory). So it matches up with my post.

 

[Triumph]

I don't disagree with you that BB wanted out of Parcells' grip. However, I think BB's resignation press conference about not working in an unsettled ownership environment (particularly after his Cleveland experience) has proven to be prescient and could well have been the most important reason. If not, why agree in the first place to take over for Parcells when he stepped down?

Parcells was staying on with the Jets in some capacity.

That twist wasnt part of the agreement for BB to take over. BB wanted the draft and personal decisions like Cleveland and NE. The whole enchilada. Parcells would have sucked all the oxygen out of the room if BB decided to stay the course with the Jets. Several years ago when the Pats offense was pinned down vs Denver inside their 20. BB took the intentional safety and the Pats won the game. BB was lauded a genius. Parcells soon chimed in that he was the first to use that maneuver implying that BB lifted it from him.

BB wanted total control of an NFL team to sink or swim. When BB leaves NE in the not to distant future, his successors will be afforded the same opportunity.

 

[rochrist]

When you decide not to renew the contract of your “character coach” and he sneaks around tampering with employees to steal them. Hmmm

They didn't decline to renew his contract. He quit.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This situation has nothing to do with Belichick’s situation with the Jets 20 years ago.

Florio has a point and, quite honestly, his article was one of the thoughts that occurred to me a couple days ago. Let’s all put aside our league office paranoia and consider the following:

A contract cannot overrule a league rule. If the league has a rule that says “ABC applies to all front office employees” then you can’t create a contract with Caserio which includes a clause that says “ABC doesn’t apply to you.” Oh sure you could create the contract and even have everyone sign the contract, but that clause will be thrown out in a heartbeat if it gets challenged. (And, sure enough, Florio mentions an NFL source told him that’s precisely what happened to a separate team in a separate situation)

It seems to me that if Caserio and the Texans pushed the matter really hard, they’d win. But Caserio either wants to stay or, perhaps more likely, merely doesn’t want to leave on bad terms. So this whole thing was much ado about nothing as ultimately, nothing has changed.

It’s true that a contract cannot overrule a league rule, but the Patriots situation is more complex. The question is whether or not Caserio is right now considered a “high-level employee” or “non high-level employee.” The contract may contain a clause by which Caserio acknowledges he is in fact a “high-level employee” which may be further supported by his responsibilities and compensation being commensurate to other GMs and top-level personnel leaders.

Another way of looking at it is, what if a GM was in a situation where he didn’t have complete autonomy and needed the owner/coach to agree on personnel decisions. Would he be able to get a “promotion” by going to another organization where he has full autonomy? The argument gets pretty gray. Caserio is the highest ranking personnel guy on the Patriots by title and is likely paid like it, too.

New England Patriots

And that is why Florio’s reasoning is specious. It’s a very slippery slope to overlook title and compensation, perhaps defined in the language of the contract, and make judgment calls on which position is “higher level” when both quality as “high-level.” Many organizations have GMs who don’t have full autonomy, but they are protected.

Does the Caserio clause comply with league rules?

The emphasis wasn’t added by me; it appears in the policy. And the argument would be, if push comes to shove, that this provision of the tampering policy supersedes the Caserio clause, which as applied would prevent him from leaving his non-high-level employee job with the Patriots (coach Bill Belichick obviously runs the show in New England) for an opportunity to become a “high-level employee” with another team.

 

[XLIX]

It’s true that a contract cannot overrule a league rule, but the Patriots situation is more complex. The question is whether or not Caserio is right now considered a “high-level employee” or “non high-level employee.” The contract may contain a clause by which Caserio acknowledges he is in fact a “high-level employee” which may be further supported by his responsibilities and compensation being commensurate to other GMs and top-level personnel leaders.

Another way of looking at it is, what if a GM was in a situation where he didn’t have complete autonomy and needed the owner/coach to agree on personnel decisions. Would he be able to get a “promotion” by going to another organization where he has full autonomy? The argument gets pretty gray. Caserio is the highest ranking personnel guy on the Patriots by title and is likely paid like it, too.

New England Patriots

And that is why Florio’s reasoning is specious. It’s a very slippery slope to overlook title and compensation, perhaps defined in the language of the contract, and make judgment calls on which position is “higher level” when both quality as “high-level.” Many organizations have GMs who don’t have full autonomy, but they are protected.

Does the Caserio clause comply with league rules?

The emphasis wasn’t added by me; it appears in the policy. And the argument would be, if push comes to shove, that this provision of the tampering policy supersedes the Caserio clause, which as applied would prevent him from leaving his non-high-level employee job with the Patriots (coach Bill Belichick obviously runs the show in New England) for an opportunity to become a “high-level employee” with another team.

I think you summed it up perfectly here. I imagine that if league rules discuss what a "high level employee" can and cannot do versus what a "non high level employee" can and cannot do, then somewhere in all that paperwork they took the time to define what makes someone a "high level employee."

My belief is that if push came to shove (which isn't happening but I am speaking hypothetically) then the league would look at what the guy's actually responsibilities are, and not so much at the title. You wrote Caserio is "the highest ranking personnel guy on the Patriots by title" but we all know that, titles aside, he isn't the highest ranking personnel guy on the team.

 

[Ivan]

I read that article to jog my memory prior to making my post (I had actually forgotten about the federal lawsuit and Kessler's involvement until that article jogged my memory). So it matches up with my post.

Disagree, the contract is similar in that both prevented them from leaving for a better job. And I seriously doubt the Patriots put that clause in without checking the regulations first.

 

[Ring 6]

They didn't decline to renew his contract. He quit.

Are you sure about that? I’m pretty sure his contract expired.

 

[Ring 6]

They didn't decline to renew his contract. He quit.

No he didn’t quit, his contract expired.

Popular 'character coach' Jack Easterby leaves Patriots after six seasons

The Boston Globe first reported Thursday that Jack Easterby, whose official title was "character coach/team development," has decided to pursue other opportunities in football after his contract with the Patriots expired at the conclusion of the season

 

[Sciz]

There better be a full tampering investigation a little less than a year from now when Caserio’s contract expires. I’m far from convinced that the Texans will actually go through free agency and the draft without contacting him.

 

[rochrist]

No he didn’t quit, his contract expired.

Popular 'character coach' Jack Easterby leaves Patriots after six seasons

I think we're both right. His contract expired, but his leaving wasn't because they didn't renew his contract. He left on his own.

 

[Deus Irae]

...And that is why Florio’s reasoning is specious. ...

"Let me engage my activism about something I haven't read yet" is the sort of crap that Florio started doing far too much of years ago.