Unfortunate: Jordan Matthews put on IR

[Froob]

This is what kills me about A LOT of fans...how do you ACTUALLY know this? You're just talking out of your ass

Because the Patriots have one of the most (probably the most) complicated offense in the league that requires receivers to run difficult routes and make route changes on the fly. Dez is a poor route runner and the Cowboys had to dumb down the playbook for him.

 

[Love The Drake]

Maybe Cleveland being his only suitor will have him take a one year deal at league minimum to come here.
Scared straight

 

[primetime]

Forget the playbook issue, Dez's problem is he's been two steps slower the last couple years and he was never a guy who could afford to lose anything. He's been consistently incapable of getting open.

 

[Love The Drake]

Forget the playbook issue, Dez's problem is he's been two steps slower the last couple years and he was never a guy who could afford to lose anything. He's been consistently incapable of getting open.

I bet he beats Decker and Matthews in a foot race.

 

[Ring 6]

Randy Moss says hi from Canton.

You think moss was a great big game performer here?

 

[Triumph]

Mathews in the slot was always a pipe dream.

He did not even show up on the radar in 2017 playing slot. The Pats move players around in that position, so I am not concerned in the least.

Mathews and Decker are similar players. If NE does not sign Decker they will plug somebody else in and keep on ticking.

 

[supafly]

Maybe Cleveland being his only suitor will have him take a one year deal at league minimum to come here.
Scared straight

I dunno. Just watching him on the sidelines or in the locker room makes me cringe a bit. I realize that we always talk about ruining team chemistry etc, but I think he really has the capacity to be too much of a distraction. The good may not outweigh the bad.

His approach probably wouldn’t go over too well, here. The pouting. The non-stop criticism of everyone around him. The obnoxious whining about not getting the ball. Oh, and there’s also primetime’s reasoning, which states that he’s fallen off in talent, aside from the slant routes.

 

[luuked]

I would rather not go into this season with Allen as the #1 blocking TE.

Yeah why go into the season with one of the very best blocking TEs in the entire league.

Jesus, sometimes I really wonder how many troll accounts there are around here.

 

[luuked]

This is what kills me about A LOT of fans...how do you ACTUALLY know this? You're just talking out of your ass

Because he has shown no sliver of nuanced route running for his entire career. He has always been a one trick pony that won with size and separation. But since then his ability to separate has started to fade tremendously.

There are years of evidence on tape about who he is. This is not a diamond in the rough situation. He is what he is.

 

[goheels22002]

You think moss was a great big game performer here?

Are you asking a question about the Super Bowl?

Randy Moss was not the reason why the Patriots lost that Super Bowl to the NY Giants. He most certainly was a major reason why the Patriots were 18-0 going into that game. As the undefeated season wore on, every game became a big game. Moss came through to the tune of a record breaking season.

Moss had three consecutive 1,000 yard receiving seasons, including the 2008 Matt Cassell season.

Yes, Randy Moss was a big game performer.

If you could have only one of them in a big game, would you rather have Randy Moss or Danny Amendola on the field with Tom Brady?

 

[Sicilian]

It's unfortunate, because it would have been good to keep as many guys competing for the spots after Edelman/Hogan for as long as possible, to assure you made the most informed decision on who to keep. But as was pointed out, WR was always going to be a numbers game, with 7 vets competing for 5 spots (assuming none of the rookies/2nd year guys step up). Now it's 6 competing for 5 spots.

The question during the first 4 weeks isn't necessarily which WR will replace Edelman, but how will the team choose to run the offense in his absence, and there's different personnel options to do that. When you have a TE like Gronk and RB's that excel at catching the ball, you really only need four WR's (three to play regularly, one for depth). Hogan and Dorsett seem to be having good camps, so I consider them 1/2 until Edelman returns. I think Patterson makes it, but he's a #4 at best (gadget guy who can play in high WR sets and be an ace on ST).

#3 Wr options look like this (in order of my personal preference):

1) Mitchell gets healthy. He's the guy who has proven he has Brady's trust and gets it when he's on the field. Big question mark right now, but all things being equal, he'd be the best guy.

2) Britt take the next step, which reports have indicated the team is optimistic on.

3) One of the young guys steps up and earns a slot role, allowing Hogan and Dorsett to man the outside spots. I haven't heard much about any one of them really standing out above the others yet though.

4) Until Edelman comes back, we keep an extra TE or RB and run a lot of 12 and 22 sets for the first 4 weeks. I think this can work in the short term, but even once Julian is back it speaks to paper thin depth at WR.

Lots to watch in the coming weeks.

 

[Triumph]

Yeah why go into the season with one of the very best blocking TEs in the entire league.

Jesus, sometimes I really wonder how many troll accounts there are around here.

If Allen is the blocking TE then that means Gronk is catching passes.

I want Allen to the Pats best blocking TE too. Gronk is not paid to be one of the highest at TE to be a blocker.

 

[maineman209]

It's unfortunate, because it would have been good to keep as many guys competing for the spots after Edelman/Hogan for as long as possible, to assure you made the most informed decision on who to keep. But as was pointed out, WR was always going to be a numbers game, with 7 vets competing for 5 spots (assuming none of the rookies/2nd year guys step up). Now it's 6 competing for 5 spots.

The question during the first 4 weeks isn't necessarily which WR will replace Edelman, but how will the team choose to run the offense in his absence, and there's different personnel options to do that. When you have a TE like Gronk and RB's that excel at catching the ball, you really only need four WR's (three to play regularly, one for depth). Hogan and Dorsett seem to be having good camps, so I consider them 1/2 until Edelman returns. I think Patterson makes it, but he's a #4 at best (gadget guy who can play in high WR sets and be an ace on ST).

#3 Wr options look like this (in order of my personal preference):

1) Mitchell gets healthy. He's the guy who has proven he has Brady's trust and gets it when he's on the field. Big question mark right now, but all things being equal, he'd be the best guy.

2) Britt take the next step, which reports have indicated the team is optimistic on.

3) One of the young guys steps up and earns a slot role, allowing Hogan and Dorsett to man the outside spots. I haven't heard much about any one of them really standing out above the others yet though.

4) Until Edelman comes back, we keep an extra TE or RB and run a lot of 12 and 22 sets for the first 4 weeks. I think this can work in the short term, but even once Julian is back it speaks to paper thin depth at WR.

Lots to watch in the coming weeks.

By all accounts I've read, Allen and Hollister have both improved their receiving significantly. If that shows in pre-season games and holds into the regular season, it should help quite a bit.

However, IMHO, a key component to making the passing game work is having a legit ground game - one that's consistently good (not "great", just "good" - like +/- 95 yads per game at a 4.0 ypa clip). A ground game that's good enough for the defense to need to account for it legitimizes play-action passing - without which it's much harder for any WR to get open.

To that end, I'm hoping that Hollister's blocking has also significantly improved, that Trent Brown's run-blocking is improving, and that - above all - Develin and Allen stay healthy.

 

[Ring 6]

Are you asking a question about the Super Bowl?

Randy Moss was not the reason why the Patriots lost that Super Bowl to the NY Giants. He most certainly was a major reason why the Patriots were 18-0 going into that game. As the undefeated season wore on, every game became a big game. Moss came through to the tune of a record breaking season.

Moss had three consecutive 1,000 yard receiving seasons, including the 2008 Matt Cassell season.

Yes, Randy Moss was a big game performer.

If you could have only one of them in a big game, would you rather have Randy Moss or Danny Amendola on the field with Tom Brady?

None of that is the question. The question is big game performer. Moss didn’t play his best in big games. I haven’t looked at the numbers but I wouldn’t be surprised if Amendolas numbers in big games are better. They are certainly more elevated compared to regular games.

 

[Ring 6]

None of that is the question. The question is big game performer. Moss didn’t play his best in big games. I haven’t looked at the numbers but I wouldn’t be surprised if Amendolas numbers in big games are better. They are certainly more elevated compared to regular games.

Actually the numbers for moss are not good.
In 4 playoff games Moss TOTALLED 12-142-1
That’s worse than his per game RAIDER numbers. In the regular season moss average, as a patriot 5-75 with almost a td a game (50/52). In the post season that not only dropped to an average of 3-35.5 and a TD every 4 games, but his best playoff game 5-62-1 was worse than his average regular season game.

Amendola who averaged 3.3-34.5-0.17 in the regular season as a pat averaged 4.4-55-0.5 in the playoffs.
Last season alone in 3 playoff games Amendola was 26-348-2 which more than doubled what moss did in his 4 playoff games here.

If this deserves consideration, with moss the pats were 2-2 with no Sb wins. With Amendola they were 10-3 with 2 Sb wins.

 

[Kontradiction]

Are you asking a question about the Super Bowl?

Randy Moss was not the reason why the Patriots lost that Super Bowl to the NY Giants. He most certainly was a major reason why the Patriots were 18-0 going into that game. As the undefeated season wore on, every game became a big game. Moss came through to the tune of a record breaking season.

Moss had three consecutive 1,000 yard receiving seasons, including the 2008 Matt Cassell season.

Yes, Randy Moss was a big game performer.

If you could have only one of them in a big game, would you rather have Randy Moss or Danny Amendola on the field with Tom Brady?

I don’t disagree with you at all about Moss. The question that you were responding to was the typical brain dead assertion from that poster. However, that last question is somehow a hard one for me. Moss didn’t perform poorly at all in big games here and usually made the play when it needed to be made in crunch time (adjusting his route in Super Bowl 42 based on a look front Brady, boxing out his man in the Jets game in ‘08 for the go-ahead score), but Amendola was so clutch in postseason games as well. That said, Amendola’s postseason sample size was larger as well. But that’s a very tough question that I would only be able to answer with qualifiers.

• From a pure talent standpoint, any sane person would, and should, pick Moss.
• IF the Patriots have a capable receiving threat outside the numbers that can stretch the defense and keep them out of constant Cover-1, Amendola might be preferable.

 

[primetime]

Actually the numbers for moss are not good.
In 4 playoff games Moss TOTALLED 12-142-1
That’s worse than his per game RAIDER numbers. In the regular season moss average, as a patriot 5-75 with almost a td a game (50/52). In the post season that not only dropped to an average of 3-35.5 and a TD every 4 games, but his best playoff game 5-62-1 was worse than his average regular season game.

Amendola who averaged 3.3-34.5-0.17 in the regular season as a pat averaged 4.4-55-0.5 in the playoffs.
Last season alone in 3 playoff games Amendola was 26-348-2 which more than doubled what moss did in his 4 playoff games here.

If this deserves consideration, with moss the pats were 2-2 with no Sb wins. With Amendola they were 10-3 with 2 Sb wins.

I think Amendola's one of the more clutch wide receivers I can remember, but some context to those stats are important. Moss was the number 1 receiver (to say the least) and consistently double-teamed whereas Amendola was usually the second or third option on the field after Gronk and a healthy Edelman and benefited from teams throwing their best players at those guys and leaving Amendola in mismatches against third or fourth corners or even linebackers. Playoff teams generally have better defensive players so they're usually able to tamp down on a single receiving threat if they really want to, and the secondary options pick up the slack. It's why Nelson Agholor ended up with better statistics in last year's Super Bowl than Alshon Jeffrey, for instance; Agholor got to abuse mediocrities while Gilmore shut down Jeffrey after he got moved to cover him.

 

[captain stone]

Hopefully, either Poggi or Ryan Izzo will show enough in camp to fill that roster spot.

They won't.

 

[primetime]

I don’t disagree with you at all about Moss. The question that you were responding to was the typical brain dead assertion from that poster. However, that last question is somehow a hard one for me. Moss didn’t perform poorly at all in big games here and usually made the play when it needed to be made in crunch time (adjusting his route in Super Bowl 42 based on a look front Brady, boxing out his man in the Jets game in ‘08 for the go-ahead score), but Amendola was so clutch in postseason games as well. That said, Amendola’s postseason sample size was larger as well. But that’s a very tough question that I would only be able to answer with qualifiers.

• From a pure talent standpoint, any sane person would, and should, pick Moss.
• IF the Patriots have a capable receiving threat outside the numbers that can stretch the defense and keep them out of constant Cover-1, Amendola might be preferable.

As much I love him, I can't imagine any situation in which you would choose Danny Amendola over Randy Moss in their respective primes.

 

[Kontradiction]

As much I love him, I can't imagine any situation in which you would choose Danny Amendola over Randy Moss in their respective primes.

Essentially, the only way that I would probably go with Amendola is if you have a flanker lining up on the outside that can give the team a legitimate vertical threat. As you mentioned, if Amendola is drawing the defense's #1 or #2 corner, he more than likely doesn't enjoy the postseason success that he had here.