Meet Derek Rivers!

[50-yard-line]

I’ve seen several mock drafts that had Rivers going in the late first round/early second round...Not that I’m complaining, but why did he drop so far?

I'd guess because 8 of the first 12 were Offensive players (the pickings were thin on the O, so lots of teams jumped in) and on the D side, cornerbacks and safeties were being gobbled up.

And of course, BB keeps Harmon and adds Gilmore...one step ahead of the desperate drafters.

 

[stinkypete]

Derek Rivers film review


RSP Film Room No. 111: DE/OLB Derek Rivers (Youngstown St.)

Love the video; film breakdown begins around the 3:30 mark. He has strong technique off the snap and really good leverage and body control. He has shockingly quick change of direction ability, around the 8:00 mark they break down a clip where he makes about a 120 degree cut while completely shifting his balance from outside to inside. For about 3 seconds he looks like Von Miller.

 

[50-yard-line]

Let's see how this pick works out; maybe it is good or maybe it was not optimal. Bill may have gotten too cute with his trade-down obsession. Even though the Patriots were in need of a DE, when their pick came up at No. 72, Bill chose to move down to No. 83, figuring that there would some good choices at 83. But then there was a run on DE's:

• Kansas State’s Jordan Willis (No. 73, Cincinnati Bengals),
• Michigan’s Chris Wormley (No. 74, Baltimore Ravens),
• Texas A&M’s Daeshon Hall (No. 77, Carolina Panthers),
• Alabama’s Tim Williams (No. 78, Ravens)
• Ohio’s Tarell Basham (No. 80, Indianapolis Colts)

Did they miss out on a better DE or their top choice? We will not know for a year or two.

Yeah, but that trade also allowed BB to get the OT he wanted.

 

[Joey007]

Flowers & Rivers are going to be a top tandem by 2018 & maybe even by the playoff time next season.

BB does it again

Power Flowers and Speed Rivers. Fire and Ice. The ultimate ying and yang. I love it.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I'm still so hyped for Rivers. He's a slight departure from our usual profile at edge. We've got a lot of stout guys who can set the edge against the run, and reduce inside to rush versus guards against the pass, and I figured that's what we would look for early in the draft. I originally thought that Rivers would go somewhere in the 25 - 50 range, so I didn't put a lot of work into his evaluation, but I loved what I saw of his hands and his twitchiness and ability to bend the edge. He's possibly the most refined of the pass rushers this year, despite playing for a small school.

We've seen guys with a similar athletic profile, such as Mark Anderson or B. Mingo (I never did learn to spell the entire thing) come in at a discount: scooped up cheap in free agency, or acquired via late round picks. We've never seen an early round pick spent on a player who is a pure pass rushing threat. Now, I realize that 83 isn't particularly early, but all things considered, it's the earliest we've taken a true edge player in quite some time, other than Chandler Jones (who again fits the bigger profile).

I think we all wanted a guy with the potential to scream off the edge, however. That's why I was mostly scouting edge players who had the size and physicality to fit the Flowers/Ealy/Long/Jones profile, but who also had the upside to threaten the edge. Jordan Willis seemed like the best compromise of the bunch (slightly heavier than Rivers, even better testing numbers, good production at an FBS school, but noted for his physical play and work against the run), and Basham also caught my eye as a guy who could play double-duty. I figured that since Rivers was 1) sub-250 pounds, and 2) likely to go late-first or early-second, he wouldn't be as realistic of a target at 72/96.

While I still like both of those players, I'm ecstatic that we ended up with Rivers instead, because he was the only one who played to his numbers on tape. He was significantly burstier and bendier -- he jumped off the screen with his speed and urgency to the quarterback. He's also surprisingly refined with hand placement and his ability to disengage from a blocker. I love his production and demeanor, and I've never been more glad to be wrong about what the Patriots were looking for with their first pick (to be fair, I had the right position at least).

Good work, Bill. I guess you're okay.

 

[Gumby]

Don't think he will contribute against the run this year a lot. Like you said, he will need more weight to deal with NFL level blocks. But I can see him getting snaps as pass rusher. Looks like a good pick on paper.

The force-player evaluator disagrees with you and says he was taught to (and in tape was) to play the run first and therefore didnt have as many sacks as he could have ([still] set school records!!!)

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Power Flowers and Speed Rivers. Fire and Ice. The ultimate ying and yang. I love it.

Enough whining from decimated opponents' fans, and the "Cry Me a" Rivers name we used for the (formerly) SD quarterback will fit... just in a different way.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm still so hyped for Rivers. He's a slight departure from our usual profile at edge. We've got a lot of stout guys who can set the edge against the run, and reduce inside to rush versus guards against the pass, and I figured that's what we would look for early in the draft. I originally thought that Rivers would go somewhere in the 25 - 50 range, so I didn't put a lot of work into his evaluation, but I loved what I saw of his hands and his twitchiness and ability to bend the edge. He's possibly the most refined of the pass rushers this year, despite playing for a small school.

We've seen guys with a similar athletic profile, such as Mark Anderson or B. Mingo (I never did learn to spell the entire thing) come in at a discount: scooped up cheap in free agency, or acquired via late round picks. We've never seen an early round pick spent on a player who is a pure pass rushing threat. Now, I realize that 83 isn't particularly early, but all things considered, it's the earliest we've taken a true edge player in quite some time, other than Chandler Jones (who again fits the bigger profile).

I think we all wanted a guy with the potential to scream off the edge, however. That's why I was mostly scouting edge players who had the size and physicality to fit the Flowers/Ealy/Long/Jones profile, but who also had the upside to threaten the edge. Jordan Willis seemed like the best compromise of the bunch (slightly heavier than Rivers, even better testing numbers, good production at an FBS school, but noted for his physical play and work against the run), and Basham also caught my eye as a guy who could play double-duty. I figured that since Rivers was 1) sub-250 pounds, and 2) likely to go late-first or early-second, he wouldn't be as realistic of a target at 72/96.

While I still like both of those players, I'm ecstatic that we ended up with Rivers instead, because he was the only one who played to his numbers on tape. He was significantly burstier and bendier -- he jumped off the screen with his speed and urgency to the quarterback. He's also surprisingly refined with hand placement and his ability to disengage from a blocker. I love his production and demeanor, and I've never been more glad to be wrong about what the Patriots were looking for with their first pick (to be fair, I had the right position at least).

Good work, Bill. I guess you're okay.

His hands were some of the most active I've seen of any edge player in the draft. This is an excellent pick by the Pats.

 

[luuked]

The force-player evaluator disagrees with you and says he was taught to (and in tape was) to play the run first and therefore didnt have as many sacks as he could have ([still] set school records!!!)

How many bodies that for years went through the NFL strength and conditioning program did he encounter during this time?

It's a fantasy to think he can consistently be used at his current weight.

 

[Gumby]

How many bodies that for years went through the NFL strength and conditioning program did he encounter during this time?

It's a fantasy to think he can consistently be used at his current weight.

The first time I read your post (replied) I didn't see your emphasis on weight/conditioning, but rather thought you were focused on ability to play the run.

Fair enough point, but he is out of school now and with full time conditioning program, TC, etc. I think the start of season weight-strength won't make so much of a difference as the >Oct timeframe. But I still think he will be able to play the run, but may have that rookie fade when we need him for the HFA race and playoffs if he isn't managed on snap counts. In essence, I would agree with you as long as that word CONSISTENTLY is left in your sentence there. If used sparingly, I don't think he will be as much a run-D liability as I think you are implying.

 

[luuked]

The first time I read your post (replied) I didn't see your emphasis on weight/conditioning, but rather thought you were focused on ability to play the run.

Fair enough point, but he is out of school now and with full time conditioning program, TC, etc. I think the start of season weight-strength won't make so much of a difference as the >Oct timeframe. But I still think he will be able to play the run, but may have that rookie fade when we need him for the HFA race and playoffs if he isn't managed on snap counts. In essence, I would agree with you as long as that word CONSISTENTLY is left in your sentence there. If used sparingly, I don't think he will be as much a run-D liability as I think you are implying.

Yeah. Give him a full season in an NFL program and he has the potential to be impactful against the run. I just don't think his body will be able to handle it in his rookie year.

Also, I never said he won't be used against the run but that he won't be there a lot.

Either way, we are both seeing the same thing so no reason to argue about semantics..

 

[n6249c]

Need a hitler found out patriots got Derek rivers video. Lol.

s/b Hitler found out Pats made only four draft picks, got Cooks, Ealy, Gillislee, Rivers, Garcia et al. Rants about BB making a mockery of league by not making picks after league took so many Pats picks.

 

[n6249c]

Good nickname there. Or two: "The Sack Hunter" and "Puma" both work well. Like that mindset, would be happy if it permeates the D.

Thanks, reamer.

And this video doesn't even do him justice..
Id recommend watching full games @draftbreakdown to get a real feel of his intelligence. It's unique, esp. for a college level.

This is what I loved about him . watching his film




Derek Rivers - the sack hunter
Some “scouts“ complained about his inconsistency, disappearing periods, gap discipline etc. Instead it's part of his mind game. Unlike most (or basically all) of the prospects he's not a “fool-rush-in“ edge guy. He has intelligence and instincts of big cats. Instead of comparing him to other players I preferred to compare him to the way big cats are hunting prey. He doesn't just rush for sacks snap in snap out - he hunts them. He knows its a 60 minute game. He doesn't need to go all in every snap. He seeks his best opportunities, creates his player-specific leverage - and then goes for the throat. So i wouldn't call him pass rusher but sack hunter. The mind games he talks about and his surprising strength also result in solid pressures that BB values so much. There's a lot of room for improvement in this area and even more in edge setting - I just hope it doesn't affect his unique sack hunting approach that was such fun to watch these past weeks.

Watching him another player jumped to mind - not a pass rusher - Le'Veon Bell
__

So if you don't want to call him panther (or cougar) . just call him - puma
.

 

[n6249c]

"Let me ask you this: If he's so great, how come nobody picked him before us???"

We've made this same mistake consistently draft after draft. Every year. We pick guys that other teams passed on.

We did better this year. Only did it four times. Not like most years.

But you're right. We are still wasting a roster spot and oodles of cap space on a mediocre athlete that got passed over 198 times before we took him, and it's been almost twenty years.

you'd think we'd learn.

 

[RobertWeathers]

s/b Hitler found out Pats made only four draft picks, got Cooks, Ealy, Gillislee, Rivers, Garcia et al. Rants about BB making a mockery of league by not making picks after league took so many Pats picks.

This whole draft by BB was done out of spite.

"Fine. Take picks away. I'll take picks away from myself and still kick ass."

 

[n6249c]

This whole draft by BB was out of spite.

"Fine. Take picks away. I'll take picks away from myself and still kick ass."

Yep, been thinking that since before the draft. The way things played out just support it.

Or, "Hmm, I wonder what I could do if I did not make draft picks? Let's find out. That will drive Roger batshit!"

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Apologies if these were posted already?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

How many bodies that for years went through the NFL strength and conditioning program did he encounter during this time?

It's a fantasy to think he can consistently be used at his current weight.

He faced the formidable strength and conditioning programs at the Missouri Valley Football Conference, which I might remind you includes not only THE Youngstown State University Penguins but also The South Dakota State University Jackrabbits, the University of South Dakota Coyotes, and the Indiana State University Sycamores.

I would advise you not to underestimate the staggering sheer power of the Missouri Valley Football Conference.

 

[chumpchange]

These two picks are unbelievable. Literally exactly what we needed.

He's a perfect complement to Flowers.

I couldn't be happier

Between the historic Superbowl high, epic free agency, this great value draft, Bill going all in for 2017, and every pundit acting like every other team should just give up and shoot for 2018, this is the best offseason we've ever had.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

LOL wow I got downvoted on that MVFC chatter

Represent!