Willie McGinest rips Wes Welker

[Potstickas]

I am not too sure why Willie is airing this out. The NFL network is creeping into the ESPN business model.

Probably because Willie is an uninteresting analyst and he sees the writing on the wall unless he stirs things up a bit and create some controversy.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

he's not holding out

Illegal - please see JimJohn's post.. Thank you.

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Illegal - please see JimJohn's post.. Thank you.

no - you're welcome

 

[patfanken]

Could you please post the link where you got that Welker wants $10mm a year? Thanks

Sorry DB, you got me there. My estimation of what Welker wants is pure inference, mere speculation on a speculation. My "guess" at what the Pats are offering is based on what I think is fair. I want to pay him for what he's "earned" for 2012 which is around 10MM, and I want to pay him for what I expect him to produce after that, hence around 20-22MM for 3 years.

Clearly, if its true, that's not enough, because he hasn't signed a deal yet or his Franchise tag. So I further speculate that the gap has to be big enough that the Pats haven't already compromised and I came up with $10-11MM/yr, which isn't outrageous, but higher than I expect the Pats want to pay with Gronk and Hernandez coming up.

I admit its just guess work, but I think its a pretty good educated guess. Do you have an alternative guess?

BTW -I have 2 suggestions for Welker

1. Go to the Pats and sign the tender under the agreement that they can't franchise him next year. This, from past experience, is some the Pats would do. Then have another great season and hit the open market and see what it will bring.

2. Go to the Pats make a counter offer that's 5-10% higher than what they are currently offering and its likely that the Pats would agree to that or something very close. BOTTOM LINE its STILL a lot of money.

Look the reality is that if Welker doesn't show up until TC (which is 3 months away) it won't make a BIT of difference

 

[JimJohns]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Welker did not choke away a SB. Why can't you get that through your thick skull? Or are you to ignorant to understand reality? Why aren't you complaining about Deion Branch choking away the SB since Branch had a drop just a few plays before? Why aren't you complaining about Hernandez chocking away the SB since he also had a critical drop? OH, yeah. I know. Because, in your eyes, it doesn't matter. Just like it doesn't matter that Brady threw the ball to Welker's outside shoulder and Welker was looking for it on the inside one..

BTW, Jerry Rice had plenty of drops that prevented the 49ers from even getting to the SB. Why do you think there was a 4 year gap between the 1st two SBs and their last one?

But, don't let the facts get in the way of you being a pathetic troll..

Is the name calling really necessary?

 

[Boomer B]

Willie McGinest was an chronic underachiever his entire career and a guy who was handed guaranteed money before ever having to earn it. Willie McGinest is the last guy in the world who should be commenting on a self made work-a-holic like Wes Welker. If Willie applied himself and his skills the way Wes does Willie would be in Canton right now. All Willie got was Cleveland.
How appropriate.

A chronic underachiever his entire career? Did you even watch the Patriots back then? Big Willie was one of the best big game players this franchise has ever had. Even with that penalty against the Rams he had a had a monster game and was a key part to that 1st Super Bowl victory. He's the NFL all time leader in playoff sacks! How is that underachieving? The Pats have been looking for the next Willie McGinest since he left.

I think somebody pissed in McGinest's corn flakes yesterday and he was to harsh on Welker, but lets not act like this guy wasn't a big part of the Pats dynasty.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

It wasn't a perfect throw but it was good enough. Maybe if you're a college receiver it's understandable you drop that. If you're an NFL receiver you're expected to make that catch. If you're a receiver that is going to hold out because 9 million in a year isn't enough for you, you have no excuse for dropping that ball. If you follow the flow of the game, that was the one single play that ruined the Patriots chances for winning. Sure, the defense didn't stop Manning but it wasn't the defense's job to win that game. They were terrible all year, they kept a great offense to a low score. The Patriots offense choked the game away and 99% of that burden rests on the man who could've sealed the win with a catch. If he wants to be paid like a top receiver maybe he should've played like one in the SB.

I agree with you. He should have made that catch. I think most of us around here though are really not too interested in discussing it to be honest with you. He should have made that catch. However he didn't.

What most of us around here do as well is move on, and maybe that is a reason why we like NE's head coach so much. Did it sting for us that he never caught that ball...you betcha. Did it sting the next day, absolutely. Did it sting the next week, sure. But time slowly fades and it slowly began to sting less.

We have all moved on. Guess what, the draft is right around the corner. The new year has long since begun. That SB is over. 2007 is over, we went 18-1, we did not win...we've moved on. 2011 is over, we did not win...we've moved on.

I recommend you also move on from that catch. Let me put it to you this way. Does the fact that he DID NOT make that catch give me any less confidence that he won't make that catch next time? None whatsoever. "Well maybe he'll try TOO hard next time and miss another". Seriously? Come on man. Welker is an upper echelon receiver. If Brady gets another shot you can bet he wants 83 on the receiving end of that throw. The impact of the miss made it sting that much more. In the end...it is time to move on really, is it not?

What 83 and the organization agree to none of us have any control over. 0. 83 may or may not be with us. Personally I hope he is, if not, guess what happens?.....very good, we move on.

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Is the name calling really necessary?

by DB? yes it is

if you have not been dissed in some way by DB, you have not lived.....

you, sir......have lived

 

[Boomer B]

I just lost all respect for McGinest. He never said a word when Law was holding them up for big money and Law didn't produce anywhere near what Welker does as a player.

Ty Law didn't produce anywhere near what Welker does as a player? How soon we forget. Law's interception return in the Rams Super Bowl was probably the biggest single play in the history of the franchise. He made Peyton Manning his b*tch. He led the league in INTS more then once and made multiple pro bowls. In the early 2000's he was one of the top few CBs in the league and was one of the best big game defenders this franchise has had.

 

[DW Toys]

In fairness, although Willie has no information available to him to make such comments, he is entitled to the "Patriots show up and don't bltch about contracts and take what is offered" attitude, because he actually did that.
He's not right of course, but he earned the right to say it.

In all fairness to Willie I believe he was referring to Welker signing his Franchise contract. I am not going to criticize him for that slight guffaw.

Willie was right. On another Team Welker is a different player. He needs to pay Brady for any new contract.

I love Welker here, but sitting down and analyzing this, I see what BB might have on his mind. He brought in four new WR is you consider one Branch. You have Edelman who has had some success as a slot WR and you pick up a much younger, although injury prone Gonzales who was a first rounder and is younger and bigger and cheaper than Welker. Branch can no longer play outside so is he a slot candidate? and the Pats are looking to upgrade the kicking game and have had conversations with Joe Adams who might be a third rounder.

As I said I really do like Welker, but his price tag want and term at 31 rots. Here is a deal I propose to get everyone on the forum crazy but if you look at it, it makes sense.
TRADE WELKER TO THE VIKINGS FOR JARED ALLEN. Both are Pro Bowlers. Both are of the same age. Both Teams have sufficient replacements in place to take their spots. The Vikes desperately need a WR to go with Harvin. Are they both slots? Thought about that too but why not move one or the other around. Harvin has the migraine issue as well.

The Vikes have DE's Griffen and Robison and Reed who are younger. The Pats have...... see above. Sure Allen cost more at about $3m per year difference but he is under contract for two more years that can be extended and a WR will spiral down faster than a lineman, and maybe we lower that CAP and extend him. Is Allen worth more than Welker at this point? I think so. Has Welker become a Diva in this negotiation? I thinks so again and I am shocked. Can the Pats replace his production? With the two we have and perhaps a Joe Adams, we get younger there and the Trade helps both Teams. Also Hernandez plays the slot very well thank you.

Will the Vikes trade Allen? It has been said for the right deal. They need LT Kalil but Blackmon is a WR they need. Is Welker the better WR now? Of Course. They can have both OT and WR this way.

Torture me away if you like. I think you can push BB to the brink like Mankins did now Welker, but Mankins was Drafted here for the long term and Welker was traded for and no one knew how good he was for us. I think in the Pats case, Welker is more replaceable that Mankins right now.

DW Toys

 

[Boomer B]

More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Willie McGinest was a BUST until Belichick showed up in 2000. Willie's best years were playing OLB under Belichick.

BTW, you forgot to mention that McGinest also was a SB Loser.

Welker was not solely responsible for the loss against the Giants. This is proof of how much of an imbecile you are.

McGinest was not even close to a bust before Belichick showed up. He had years in the 90's of 11, 9.5, and 9 sacks. He had one year with Belichick of 9 sacks and the next best was 6 sacks. He was a very good player before Belichick arrived and became a great big game player after Bill arrived.

 

[JimJohns]

McGinest was not even close to a bust before Belichick showed up. He had years in the 90's of 11, 9.5, and 9 sacks. He had one year with Belichick of 9 sacks and the next best was 6 sacks. He was a very good player before Belichick arrived and became a great big game player after Bill arrived.

Haha, let him rant. I think someone pissed in his cheerios this morning.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

It wasn't a perfect throw but it was good enough. Maybe if you're a college receiver it's understandable you drop that. If you're an NFL receiver you're expected to make that catch. If you're a receiver that is going to hold out because 9 million in a year isn't enough for you, you have no excuse for dropping that ball. If you follow the flow of the game, that was the one single play that ruined the Patriots chances for winning. Sure, the defense didn't stop Manning but it wasn't the defense's job to win that game. They were terrible all year, they kept a great offense to a low score. The Patriots offense choked the game away and 99% of that burden rests on the man who could've sealed the win with a catch. If he wants to be paid like a top receiver maybe he should've played like one in the SB.

Maverick, you're missing the point. Welker isn't holding out because $9M isn't good enough. He's holding out because he's one of, if not the best receiver he's ever had and wants long term security in the event of another injury, which receivers that go over the middle as much as he does tend to get.

 

[IllegalContact]

Haha, let him rant. I think someone pissed in his cheerios this morning.

if that's the case, then someone pisses in his cheerios every morning

 

[Deus Irae]

The only one I could argue is ridiculous is #8. So long as Welker is healthy and productive he'll always have a role in a Brady led offense. The rest though are either projections on the situation (the details of which are unknown in real life, so a projection can hardly be called ridiculous) or opinions on what he thinks Welker should do, and they're not terribly crazy opinions at that. Disagreeing with an opinion doesn't make it ridiculous.

In the interest of discussion, what problems did you have with some of his opinions?

3. People on the Welker side of the contract issue should NOT play the "he isn't getting fair treatment from the Pats" card. What they have offered him for the 2012 season is ABUNDANTLY fair. The issue is a difference of opinion on what is fair for 2013, 2014, and 2015.

The franchise tag is inherently unfair to the individual player. That's the whole point of the franchise tag, which is designed to put an artificial brake on the salaries of top players while keeping them from changing teams.

4. Its likely the Pats have offered him something along the lines of 3 years at around 20-22MM/yr, with $10-11 up front, and most of the rest guaranteed. Welker is probably looking for something in the 30MM range

The Patriots reportedly offered 2 years, $16 million.

5. My opinion is Welker should sign his tender get back with the team. The Franchise offer is a fair deal for THIS year. The cold hard reality is he has NO "leverage" whether he's in or out.

His ability to sit out and not sign the deal is clearly leverage.

6. My opinion if the Pats are offering a 3 year deal in the $20MM range he should sign it. Guys his size, and who have taken the beating he has over the last 5 years tend to lose it fast when it starts to go. That's another cold hard reality. He is NOT going to be the same player at the end of any long term contract that he was when he signs it.

At 9 this year and over 10 next year (franchise tag values), why would he want to sign a 3 year deal for 20 (actually around 20.7 as I recall)? Barring injury, he's essentially got either 20 guaranteed for 2 years or 9 guaranteed for one with complete and untagged free agency following that.

7. True he has over produced what he made in the first 5 years, but that does NOT obligate the Pats to OVER pay him at the end of his career

True, but the only people making the "overpay" argument are those who want Welker to be underpaid.

8. With Lloyd coming in, Gronk and Hernandez continuing development, and an increased running game, Welker's impact is likely to decrease over the coming few years, and that has to be taken into consideration.

Welker caught 122 this past season, with Gronk setting TE records and getting 90 catches, and Hernandez grabbing 79 receptions. They may not be maxed out, but they're likely close, and they could both see fewer, rather than more, catches moving forward. Any likely cut into Welker's numbers would likely come from Lloyd getting more than the 51 catches that Branch had. So, unless the thought is that Lloyd is going to be putting up significantly more than 71 catches year in and year out, there are still going to be 100 catches, give or take, there for Welker.

Any more significant cuts into Welker's reception totals are more likely to come from a better WR4 option and from the RB reception numbers than from Gronk/Hernandez/Lloyd.

 

[Jackson 2]

Willie ought to (Please be quiet - edited) on this one.

 

[JimJohns]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Maverick, you're missing the point. Welker isn't holding out because $9M isn't good enough. He's holding out because he's one of, if not the best receiver he's ever had and wants long term security in the event of another injury, which receivers that go over the middle as much as he does tend to get.

So you're saying 9 million isn't enough for him to live comfortably for the rest of his life?

 

[Deus Irae]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/900126-curious-hear-everyones-thoughts-welker-page3.html#post2969169

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/900126-curious-hear-everyones-thoughts-welker-page3.html#post2969182

Subsequent deals may have altered the numbers a bit, but I think Ian and I were looking at much the same thing there. Here's the whole thread, for those interested in an earlier discussion on this topic:


http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/900126-curious-hear-everyones-thoughts-welker.html

 

[Ron Sellers]

Welker just fired a salvo back at McGinest:

@williemcginest why did u ever leave the Pats and play for the Browns?​

Twitter/WesWelker

 

[IllegalContact]

Welker just fired a salvo back at McGinest:

@williemcginest why did u ever leave the Pats and play for the Browns?​

Twitter/WesWelker

LOL.......welker should stick to foot comments for rex ryan.

at least willie knew how to show up in big games