Willie and the cap

[AzPatsFan]

Easy renegotiation...

All you have to do with Willie is converet hsi money to guaranted bonus for two years with two years of vet min. He gets about a $7 million onus over two years and a 700k vet min for two years. End result he knows and gets all the money owed him with $ 7 mill right now; and can retire a Pat in two years as is likely. his cap would be about $4.25 million ($3.5 + $700k) in that case...

Or you could do it over three years, lowering his cap even more in 2006..

 

[arrellbee]

Appreciate your very civil tone, Arrellbee!

Not always easy to dispute without acrimony. Hope you don't let the occasional firebrand here knock you off that posture.

Thanks for the feedback. I find the whole operation of the Patriots fascinating. It has to be such a complex balancing of players contibutions and compensation and such a difficult art of evaluating free agents and rookies. And the amount of hours and effort in working with players, analyzing opponents, and the art and shrewdness of offensive and defensive schemes. And then after all of that, the fortunes of injuries and the breaks by fractions of inches during games. What an amazing thing to observe and ponder.

Cheers.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think you it nailed it. Some people seem to just enjoy degrading people
if their OPINION doesn't line up with there own. I would guess most of
these people think of themselves as highly intelligent and therefore have
the right set others straight by degrading, belittling and disparaging others
with sarcastic, spiteful and malevolent remarks and statements.
Maybe it's a method they've learned to use to vicariously experience what
a true sense of self worth must be like. Sad.

JR4 - This coming from a guy who purposely ignored facts and refused to take even one point of someone else's opinion into consideration during the "Bob Kraft is to blame for the lack of a CBA extension argument," I think that your bias is showing through. Particularly with your malevolent remarks and statements about people.

The fact remains that there was no attack on Arrellbee. The fact remains that Arrellbee was going on and on about something he clearly doesn't have all the facts on and hasn't shown he's willing to look at the facts.

So, please, if you want to comment on the topic, JR, go ahead. I am sure that everyone would love to hear you expound again on how Kraft is the issue behind the CBA not being done.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Why are these threads turning into pissing contests?

The original thread was quite simple. How do we keep Wille without the 8 mil cap hit?

 

[JR4]

JR4 - This coming from a guy who purposely ignored facts and refused to take even one point of someone else's opinion into consideration during the "Bob Kraft is to blame for the lack of a CBA extension argument," I think that your bias is showing through. Particularly with your malevolent remarks and statements about people.

The fact remains that there was no attack on Arrellbee. The fact remains that Arrellbee was going on and on about something he clearly doesn't have all the facts on and hasn't shown he's willing to look at the facts.

So, please, if you want to comment on the topic, JR, go ahead. I am sure that everyone would love to hear you expound again on how Kraft is the issue behind the CBA not being done.

"The fact remains that there was no attack on Arrellbee"
Apparently he thought there was.

My response was made to Arrellbee was about the nastiness of some people
posting not on the general topic of this thread. It was a general comment
on people who degrade posters as a method of response. I have no problem
debating without name calling and if you show me wrong, I'll admit it.
I make penty of mistakes. I just don't think it is necessary to name call
to get your point across.

As to our debate in that other CBA thread, I was of the opinion that Bob Kraft
as a perceive leader in that "rich" owner group should lead the way to a
resolution of the problem. It now appears there has been some movement
and they are redefining things.

Peace to you, DaBruinz.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

McGinest has been paid very, very well. I mean, all he has done is work out hard and play football and made in excess of $22million for his career, so why is there all this sympathy for him? When Willie can't do his job any more he gets let go - just like everyone else in America (his pension is well taken care of by the NFLPA). The Pats owe him respect for his dedicated effort and nothing else. As I stated in another thread on Willie - it is 'insult' to the rest of the players and everyone in the organization to over pay, or reward for past efforts, any single player because the stated group goal of winning is compromised by doing so.

It is the very responsibilty of the organization to distribute every dollar of salary as efficiently as possible. Not to do so would be failing to perform at the level of ability that is demanded from players - the very best. Handing Willie $4/yr just to give him money some think he is "owed" because of his long and productive tenure with team would reduce the chances of winning if that money could be spent more effectively elsewhere. Do you think Kraft is going to address the team and say that the organization has decided to give Willie a golden parachute because he's been such a great guy and if that means no SB next year, well so be it? Such a move would destroy the team virtually overnight. So please...no more tears for Big Willie, OK? If Willie won't play for a much more reasonable amout than $8.3mil then it is the team's job to cut him, period.

If signed elsewhere I think he'd probably get $3mil upfront and 3yrs at $1mil for about $6mil total.

 

[DaBruinz]

McGinest has been paid very, very well. I mean, all he has done is work out hard and play football and made in excess of $22million for his career, so why is there all this sympathy for him? When Willie can't do his job any more he gets let go - just like everyone else in America (his pension is well taken care of by the NFLPA). The Pats owe him respect for his dedicated effort and nothing else. As I stated in another thread on Willie - it is 'insult' to the rest of the players and everyone in the organization to over pay, or reward for past efforts, any single player because the stated group goal of winning is compromised by doing so.

It is the very responsibilty of the organization to distribute every dollar of salary as efficiently as possible. Not to do so would be failing to perform at the level of ability that is demanded from players - the very best. Handing Willie $4/yr just to give him money some think he is "owed" because of his long and productive tenure with team would reduce the chances of winning if that money could be spent more effectively elsewhere. Do you think Kraft is going to address the team and say that the organization has decided to give Willie a golden parachute because he's been such a great guy and if that means no SB next year, well so be it? Such a move would destroy the team virtually overnight. So please...no more tears for Big Willie, OK? If Willie won't play for a much more reasonable amout than $8.3mil then it is the team's job to cut him, period.

If signed elsewhere I think he'd probably get $3mil upfront and 3yrs at $1mil for about $6mil total.

BBB - No one is saying to give McGinest 4 million a year now. Far from it. In my scenario, the contract would total around 10 million or say. Which is just a bit more than the 7 million he is scheduled to receive for just this year.

I think its a more than fair package and it treats McGinest fairly. He is still one of the best 3-4 OLBs in the game.

 

[mgteich]

If Willie one of the top 3 or 4 OLB's in the game, why should he not be paid at that level?

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Ay crumba, and the NFL thinks it has a problem with oversized egos, Patsfans.com takes no second fiddle when it comes to inflated self-importance!

In response -
At least one person in this thread and many others in another demanded Willie get the money he was 'owed', or, in this thread, had 'earned.' So, yes, many people are saying give Willie $4mil or even $8mil per year.

It would seem highly imprudent to pay Willie like he was one of the top "three or four OLB's in the game," when you consider his age and the uneven production of the defense when Seymour has been missing. I think he has good value and the team would benefit from his return but only at around $2.5mil/yr.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ay crumba, and the NFL thinks it has a problem with oversized egos, Patsfans.com takes no second fiddle when it comes to inflated self-importance!

In response -
At least one person in this thread and many others in another demanded Willie get the money he was 'owed', or, in this thread, had 'earned.' So, yes, many people are saying give Willie $4mil or even $8mil per year.

It would seem highly imprudent to pay Willie like he was one of the top "three or four OLB's in the game," when you consider his age and the uneven production of the defense when Seymour has been missing. I think he has good value and the team would benefit from his return but only at around $2.5mil/yr.

BBB - If you are going to quote people, why not put it up there so that can be taken in context.

I am one of the people who said that Willie should be paid the money he's earned. Which is the remaining 7 million (not 8.3 per that moron John Tomase). And my contract proposal would meet that and keep McGinest around until he decided to retire. And, in fact, my proposal would save the Pats over 4 million against the cap.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I'm not sure how you can say he has "earned" his 2006 money. The football season (workouts, camps, regular, etc) has even started yet so McGinest hasn't earned anything for 2006. Unless you are infering that Willie has earned this money due to past performance. If so, i believe you're wrong - see my previous posts for why.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not sure how you can say he has "earned" his 2006 money. The football season (workouts, camps, regular, etc) has even started yet so McGinest hasn't earned anything for 2006. Unless you are infering that Willie has earned this money due to past performance. If so, i believe you're wrong - see my previous posts for why.

BBB -
Yes, I am inferring that Willie has earned the money called for in his contract. Why? Because he continues to play at a HIGH level and is one of the top 3-4 OLBs in the league. He makes very few mistakes on the field. He's a team leader who has bent over backwards numerous times for this team. He's given back money on several occasions.

As for you believing that I am wrong, I belive that your assumptions in your previous post are incorrect. The problem is that the Defense performs just fine without Seymour in there. It doesn't perform fine when you are missing Bruschi, Harrison, an adequate replacement for Ted Johnson, have a merry-go-round at the #2 CB position as well as Seymour not being in there. And, I know from watching the games, that McGinest continued to play at the same level that he's been playing at in previous years. Its unfair to judge McGinest entirely by the way the defense played during a particular timeframe when it was missing so many players.