Why not two #1 picks for Asante

[NEPatriot]

I like Asante, however I would not consider him an elite, shut down CB. He lacks the speed to be out on an island. I'd be happy if we could get one 1st rounder for him.

 

[Ring 6]

I like Asante, however I would not consider him an elite, shut down CB. He lacks the speed to be out on an island. I'd be happy if we could get one 1st rounder for him.

I would NOT trade him for a #1.
Long term that may be the best result, but to win in 07 our chances are reduced without Samuel on the field.
I could easily take the argument of the value of top picks, but ultimately the value of putting experienced developed players on the field has to be considered as well.
There needs to be a balance between talent being developed to win in the future, and talent to win with now. I think the scales are heavily tilted in this case that Samuel, given the mix of our roster holds a lot more value to us than another #1 pick.

 

[F0nSY]

I would NOT trade him for a #1.
Long term that may be the best result, but to win in 07 our chances are reduced without Samuel on the field.
I could easily take the argument of the value of top picks, but ultimately the value of putting experienced developed players on the field has to be considered as well.
There needs to be a balance between talent being developed to win in the future, and talent to win with now. I think the scales are heavily tilted in this case that Samuel, given the mix of our roster holds a lot more value to us than another #1 pick.

Me too not,i think that he's very important in our defense....

 

[patchick]

Let the debate begin! Is a cash payment equivalent to a draft pick?

Paying franchise money for one player is one thing, at worst you wind up with dead money or an injury settlement. Coughing up two of the more significant team building tools in your arsenal needs more thought - would you give up a potential Richard Seymour and Ty Warren for Tommy or Peyton? Would it be more palatable if they were Graham and Watson?

Yes, there is the uncertainty factor of draft picks, but there is also the diversification of risk (to use a term my wallet fantasizes over) and that blue chip potential. Bonds of stocks? Given BB's economic thinking as applied to cap management and team building, two #1 picks for a Lawrence Taylor or other impact player would seem to be a difficult expenditure to justify. I might do it for the QB, the LB, probably not.

Wow Box, you wouldn't trade #24 and #28 for Lawrence Taylor? To put it another way, how would you feel if one of the Pats' 1st-rounders this year ended up a JAG, but the other turned out to be a dominating, game-changing, first-ballot hall of famer? I'd call that a terrific overall return from those draft slots. So I'd happily take Taylor, sign a cheap JAG and set my sights on the Superbowl.

 

[cstjohn17]

I would NOT trade him for a #1.
Long term that may be the best result, but to win in 07 our chances are reduced without Samuel on the field.
I could easily take the argument of the value of top picks, but ultimately the value of putting experienced developed players on the field has to be considered as well.
There needs to be a balance between talent being developed to win in the future, and talent to win with now. I think the scales are heavily tilted in this case that Samuel, given the mix of our roster holds a lot more value to us than another #1 pick.

It is not an either or situation. If it comes down to a trade it is because they couldn't reach an agreement. With no agreement in place the options are to trade him or force him to play under the tag.

If he plays 2007 under a tag and then walks in 2008 we get one year from him taking $8M of cap space and might get lucky with a 3rd round pick for compensation in 2009.

If he is traded for a 1st round pick we get a top 30 college player under contract control for 5-6 years.

If an impass is reached and there is a number 1 draft pick being offered I would be stunned if the Patriots didn't jump all over it.

 

[Ring 6]

It is not an either or situation. If it comes down to a trade it is because they couldn't reach an agreement. With no agreement in place the options are to trade him or force him to play under the tag.

If he plays 2007 under a tag and then walks in 2008 we get one year from him taking $8M of cap space and might get lucky with a 3rd round pick for compensation in 2009.

If he is traded for a 1st round pick we get a top 30 college player under contract control for 5-6 years.

If an impass is reached and there is a number 1 draft pick being offered I would be stunned if the Patriots didn't jump all over it.

He could also be tagged next year. I think one thing is certain he wont sit out and leave 8 mill on the table (that is I believe mroe than he has made combined in his life so far) That makes it in his interest to resign here because he cannot resign anywhere else. He will get a signing bonus larger than 8 mill, so the risk of a career ending injury, or just waiting indefinitely for the payday give him incentive to sign here and now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He could also be tagged next year. I think one thing is certain he wont sit out and leave 8 mill on the table (that is I believe mroe than he has made combined in his life so far) That makes it in his interest to resign here because he cannot resign anywhere else. He will get a signing bonus larger than 8 mill, so the risk of a career ending injury, or just waiting indefinitely for the payday give him incentive to sign here and now.

The tag for this player next year will be at least $9.4M making him the highest paid player on the roster ahead of Brady and Seymour, and the second highest cap hit behind only Brady for the second season in a row. Not going to happen unless you want to see Richard start pouting again two years in advance of his three year deal expiring with all his bonus money having already been paid out and just $4.4M remaining in salary for 2008 thru 2009. And Brady left with a little over $10M due between 2008-2010 (which likely means we will be dealing with extending his deal in 2008).

I don't know how you can assume he won't hold out given what transpired with Branch. I know the argument is Branch was only holding out on his final season of rookie contract compensation, but that's just not true. There was a deal on the table for 3 years $19M with an $8M signing bonus (or the option of a 5 year version with upwards of $31M and an $11M signing bonus) on the table all along that would have put the bonus money in his hand immediately, yet he held out because he believed there was a deal worth upwards of $40M and a $13M signing bonus out there - and he could get it this year. And he was right. Holding out wouldn't have even gotten Branch his unfettered freedom - it will for a franchise tagged player. The lesson may be lost on some here but I doubt it was lost on Belioli. They underestimated player resolve in this burgeoning cap market once, don't think they will do it again. Even as they remain committed to their own value based philosophy.

If they cannot sign him to a long term deal in the next several weeks, and he is able to establish that there are teams willing to meet his contract demands, the best approach for the long and short term will be a trade. Asante knows that his market may never be higher including for reasons beyond his control, and to risk that by accepting a one year tender for potentially little more than half of what he could yet command in a tag and trade scenario would be foolhardy for a player who has made it this far virtually unscathed. Let alone for one who had himself tatooed with the mantra GET PAID.

The only way I see him playing under the tag is if his market doesn't emerge, and the Pat's seeing that stand firm - and I really doubt that will be the case with more than half the teams in the league, temporarily at least, literally cap flush. These players and their agents roll the dice every time he sets foot on a playing surface. Rolling the dice without having to do that is not as scary as fans like to think in a talent starved league occupied by HC's and GM's under tremendous pressure to win now.

 

[solman]

The tag for this player next year will be at least $9.4M making him the highest paid player on the roster ahead of Brady and Seymour, and the second highest cap hit behind only Brady for the second season in a row.

This kind of analysis makes no sense.

1. The cap has gone up at least 27.5% since the the Brady and Seymour deals were done.

2. They Brady and Seymour deals are multi-year deals that provide substantial financial security in the event of a career ending injury. NFL players understand perfectly well that they accept a salary discount in exchange for achieving this security.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This kind of analysis makes no sense.

1. The cap has gone up at least 27.5% since the the Brady and Seymour deals were done.

2. They Brady and Seymour deals are multi-year deals that provide substantial financial security in the event of a career ending injury. NFL players understand perfectly well that they accept a salary discount in exchange for achieving this security.

1. It has since Brady's, but Richard's was only signed last season a month after the new CBA was agreed upon. So it's only gone up around 6% since Seymour signed. And these two players are actual bonafide franchise players under the spirit in which the "franchise tag" was conceived.

2. They understand it perfectly well until the bonus money in their deals dries up. Richard will be playing for $700K in 2008, and $3.7M entering a contract season in 2009. He'll have forgotten about the $18.6M he long ago banked in 2006-07. He won't be nearly as inclined to play with elbow wraps and bone chips floating around in his knees for those salaries with his second bite at the FA apple looming and knowing Asante Freakin' Samuel was paid almost twice his combines 2008-09 salaries in 2007 alone. And our HOF QB will have pocketed $14M over the same two year time frame in which Asante Freakin' Samuel pocketed over $17M under back to back tags? Not going to happen.

People need to balance their desire to maintain the status quo with Asante on the roster with the knowledge that what he is paid this year (and next for those who say tag him twice) effects what the other 52 will expect to be paid going forward in ways that can eat through a cap surplus in a flash.

This FO knew what the 2007 cap was in November when they offered him a deal that reportedly included a $7.5M signing bonus. These bonuses roughly reflect what a team feels a player is worth over the first two years of a deal. Brady = $13M per. Seymour = $9M per. Samuel and Branch = $4M to maybe $5M per. I don't think a half dozen more picks over the second half of the season swayed this FO to reassess Asante's value to nearly double what they felt it was last fall. Might have bumped his value a million or so, but not upwards of $3-4M.